I am afraid to turn off traction control
07-09-2016, 02:21 PM
#21
Pffffft. Nannies. I'm cutting the seat belts out of mine. Back in the day when I started driving most cars didn't have the things. But they all had ashtrays and lighters so maybe I'll turn my TC off take up smoking again.
If you turn it off for a reason and back on when the reason is no longer there, it should be ok. But driving around with it off all the time isn't a good idea. When taking off from a stop, especially when turning, it is so easy to break loose. Even when an aggressive turn through an intersection is well under control, all hell and the tires can break loose when the rears hit the wide painted stripes of the crosswalk. That is not a good time to get squirrelly and is exactly what the TC is for.
If you turn it off for a reason and back on when the reason is no longer there, it should be ok. But driving around with it off all the time isn't a good idea. When taking off from a stop, especially when turning, it is so easy to break loose. Even when an aggressive turn through an intersection is well under control, all hell and the tires can break loose when the rears hit the wide painted stripes of the crosswalk. That is not a good time to get squirrelly and is exactly what the TC is for.
07-09-2016, 03:03 PM
#22
Drifting
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=obxchartercaptain;1592592800]All I can say about that is THIS. For those of us that grew up with the Muscle Cars of the 60's and DROVE them ....we never had "NANNIES" on them. We DROVE the crap out of them.....We didn't have the high tech tires....a burn out would go on for as long as we "stay on it". You go around a corner to fast....you paid the price. We LEARNED to DRIVE the car....not the car drive us. Turn the nannies off and learn to drive...
[/QUOTE
Well, being only 19 and this is my first Corvette, let me sit at your feet and listen to your stories about the good ol' days when men were young boys and girls sat next to you because you had a bench seat and you were hoping to cop a feel, Grandpa.
Oh, wait, what am I talking about, I actually DID grow up in the 60s and have plenty of experience with muscle cars back then and idiots that we were we burned rubber all the time on main street and replaced our stupidly-burned-out clutches and transmissions and did donuts and in general had a good time. Snow and freezing temperatures were always a blast for some wacky driving in snow covered parking lots and on frozen lakes, etc. Hey y'all, watch this.
But none of those cars had the amount of horsepower and traction that even the base Corvette has. Some wiser folks in this thread have commented about issues like the traction characteristics of crosswalk lines are much worse than the surrounding pavement and the so-called nannies can save your azz in those situations.
But I have nothing to prove and the fact is that the edge of performance on the Corvette is way beyond any of those 60s cars and I don't want to find the edge the hard way. So I was asking for some info about what other people do.
But I'm glad I could give you a soapbox to celebrate the old days. I was there. I remember.
[/QUOTEWell, being only 19 and this is my first Corvette, let me sit at your feet and listen to your stories about the good ol' days when men were young boys and girls sat next to you because you had a bench seat and you were hoping to cop a feel, Grandpa.
Oh, wait, what am I talking about, I actually DID grow up in the 60s and have plenty of experience with muscle cars back then and idiots that we were we burned rubber all the time on main street and replaced our stupidly-burned-out clutches and transmissions and did donuts and in general had a good time. Snow and freezing temperatures were always a blast for some wacky driving in snow covered parking lots and on frozen lakes, etc. Hey y'all, watch this.
But none of those cars had the amount of horsepower and traction that even the base Corvette has. Some wiser folks in this thread have commented about issues like the traction characteristics of crosswalk lines are much worse than the surrounding pavement and the so-called nannies can save your azz in those situations.
But I have nothing to prove and the fact is that the edge of performance on the Corvette is way beyond any of those 60s cars and I don't want to find the edge the hard way. So I was asking for some info about what other people do.
But I'm glad I could give you a soapbox to celebrate the old days. I was there. I remember.
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JerryU (07-09-2016)
07-09-2016, 03:05 PM
#23
Drifting
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=tunaman;1592594607]...it will still bite the experienced driver when pushed past the limits.[/QUOTE
That's exactly what I'm afraid of.
That's exactly what I'm afraid of.
07-09-2016, 03:10 PM
#24
Drifting
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=BenCasey;1592594476]I'm spending a few grand to learn to drive on the track. Once you know the cars limits I think I'll be more confident with knowing when to turn off stabitrack in the vette.[/QUOTE
The reason I bought a Corvette was because a couple/few years ago I went up to Spring Mountain (not far from here) and did Corvette level 2 and level 2 and decided that owning a Corvette was a must (after years of P cars and MBs). Learned a lot about my limits. But I still don't think I know the car's limits.
I've read that the state of development of TC and stabilization is such that even the top drivers do better with some combination of them ON.
But I'd still like to try turning that stuff off. I just don't want to regret it. Thus the post and the video.
.
The reason I bought a Corvette was because a couple/few years ago I went up to Spring Mountain (not far from here) and did Corvette level 2 and level 2 and decided that owning a Corvette was a must (after years of P cars and MBs). Learned a lot about my limits. But I still don't think I know the car's limits.
I've read that the state of development of TC and stabilization is such that even the top drivers do better with some combination of them ON.
But I'd still like to try turning that stuff off. I just don't want to regret it. Thus the post and the video.
.
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BenCasey (07-09-2016)
07-09-2016, 03:14 PM
#25
Drifting
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=markcz;1592592661]If you want to do a burnout, turn it off, but put it back on when you're driving.[/QUOTE
Good point, but back when I was young and broke burnouts seemed like a good idea. Now that I can afford whatever repairs beating the car induces I find myself less inclined to do burnouts. Weird huh? It's like skydiving when you're young and dumb is a great idea, but as you get older it seems like not such a great idea. Shouldn't it be the other way around?
Do you do burnouts? Don't you worry about creating some kind of issue with your tires? Or accelerating wear on your drivetrain? I am asking these questions seriously because I always wonder about how much people are willing to beat up their Corvettes.
Good point, but back when I was young and broke burnouts seemed like a good idea. Now that I can afford whatever repairs beating the car induces I find myself less inclined to do burnouts. Weird huh? It's like skydiving when you're young and dumb is a great idea, but as you get older it seems like not such a great idea. Shouldn't it be the other way around?
Do you do burnouts? Don't you worry about creating some kind of issue with your tires? Or accelerating wear on your drivetrain? I am asking these questions seriously because I always wonder about how much people are willing to beat up their Corvettes.
Last edited by driver9; 07-09-2016 at 03:17 PM. Reason: keep blathering: from Weird to around?
07-09-2016, 03:32 PM
#26
Drifting
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=dvilin;1592593362]If you are not racing, do not want to smoke the tires or get the experience of controlling the car under full power leave it on.[/QUOTE
I do want to get the experience of controlling the car under full power. I just don't want that experience to end badly, like the unfortunate drivers in the video I linked (and the victims who they struck with their cars).
I'm trying to figure out how to explore the nannies-off mode without regretting it. Spring Mountain used to have a level 3 course where they did stuff without any nannies, but I didn't get around to doing it and now they don't offer it. If I knew they were getting rid of it, I would have hurried up and done it.
I do want to get the experience of controlling the car under full power. I just don't want that experience to end badly, like the unfortunate drivers in the video I linked (and the victims who they struck with their cars).
I'm trying to figure out how to explore the nannies-off mode without regretting it. Spring Mountain used to have a level 3 course where they did stuff without any nannies, but I didn't get around to doing it and now they don't offer it. If I knew they were getting rid of it, I would have hurried up and done it.
07-09-2016, 04:05 PM
#27
your thread title says a lot.
if you are afraid to turn it off, don't.
if you drive without antilock brakes and/or traction control, you have to be more alert, obviously. if the wheels spin, you have to be willing to reduce acceleration by backing off on the accelerator until the wheels regain traction, otherwise you WILL lose control in most cases. if you lock up your wheels when braking without antiskid, you will go out of control if your speed is high enough provided you don't release some brake pressure. if you are willing to practice the limits of acceleration, cornering and braking in an environment where you aren't likely to damage property or put lives in danger, you can figure it out. but you have to be willing to modulate power or braking as necessary.
sometimes, in a corner at high speed, if you don't slow down you will lose control, but if you reduce power too quickly or if you brake too much, you can also lose control.
most of the low speed spinouts that you see on video could be stopped if the people were willing to take their foot off the accelerator before the skid part gets too far along, provided that they also steered into it. most who lose control don't. once it goes past a certain point, control cannot be recovered. you can learn a lot if you have an open space to practice in. on public roads, conditions can change even if the road is a familiar one. loose gravel and ice or snow are the most common examples.
driving a car near its limits involves risk. you are the only one who can assess those risks and decide whether you want to take them or not.
these points are simple, logical and obvious, but lots of people either aren't aware of them or don't apply them, probably because they haven't thought about or practiced them. in the videos, they either keep their foot in the accelerator or don't steer into the drift, or both.
if you are afraid to turn it off, don't.
if you drive without antilock brakes and/or traction control, you have to be more alert, obviously. if the wheels spin, you have to be willing to reduce acceleration by backing off on the accelerator until the wheels regain traction, otherwise you WILL lose control in most cases. if you lock up your wheels when braking without antiskid, you will go out of control if your speed is high enough provided you don't release some brake pressure. if you are willing to practice the limits of acceleration, cornering and braking in an environment where you aren't likely to damage property or put lives in danger, you can figure it out. but you have to be willing to modulate power or braking as necessary.
sometimes, in a corner at high speed, if you don't slow down you will lose control, but if you reduce power too quickly or if you brake too much, you can also lose control.
most of the low speed spinouts that you see on video could be stopped if the people were willing to take their foot off the accelerator before the skid part gets too far along, provided that they also steered into it. most who lose control don't. once it goes past a certain point, control cannot be recovered. you can learn a lot if you have an open space to practice in. on public roads, conditions can change even if the road is a familiar one. loose gravel and ice or snow are the most common examples.
driving a car near its limits involves risk. you are the only one who can assess those risks and decide whether you want to take them or not.
these points are simple, logical and obvious, but lots of people either aren't aware of them or don't apply them, probably because they haven't thought about or practiced them. in the videos, they either keep their foot in the accelerator or don't steer into the drift, or both.
07-09-2016, 04:16 PM
#28
Instructor
Member Since: Apr 2007
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I figure I paid for them and I use them as a training tool. 3 cars ago had more power than I had skill and I had no problem getting instruction. Best advise so far was until I could take a lap without them intervening, leave them on.. you are just pissing off the car.
My times improved the less they came on and saved my **** more times than I care to admit. First thing I tell people I instruct is I rather be bored than scared.
Current track only car I have has zero aids or assists, I don't think I could have made good use of current car without taking the path I have taken.
Leave them on until you can drive without them coming on, then methodically creep up to the edge. Better to make use of the nannies than take the ride of shame on the tow truck.
My times improved the less they came on and saved my **** more times than I care to admit. First thing I tell people I instruct is I rather be bored than scared.
Current track only car I have has zero aids or assists, I don't think I could have made good use of current car without taking the path I have taken.
Leave them on until you can drive without them coming on, then methodically creep up to the edge. Better to make use of the nannies than take the ride of shame on the tow truck.
07-09-2016, 04:20 PM
#29
Melting Slicks
When I was a teen, my best friend had a 440 68 charger and a 340 duster.
We almost died dozens of times. I remember once hitting a corner, losing traction, and driving on the sidewalk. On that sidewalk was a family with a stroller, my buddy turned sharply into traffic and.. Guess what? The traffic stopped. Thank god.
Why? Well, I was 15 and he was 16. The charger had bench seats, hitting a corner hard would toss the females onto us.
I had to point out that, as excellent as "learning to drive is" there are always idiots around like the video shows.
I'm spending a few grand to learn to drive on the track. Once you know the cars limits I think I'll be more confident with knowing when to turn off stabitrack in the vette.
We almost died dozens of times. I remember once hitting a corner, losing traction, and driving on the sidewalk. On that sidewalk was a family with a stroller, my buddy turned sharply into traffic and.. Guess what? The traffic stopped. Thank god.
Why? Well, I was 15 and he was 16. The charger had bench seats, hitting a corner hard would toss the females onto us.
I had to point out that, as excellent as "learning to drive is" there are always idiots around like the video shows.
I'm spending a few grand to learn to drive on the track. Once you know the cars limits I think I'll be more confident with knowing when to turn off stabitrack in the vette.
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BenCasey (07-09-2016)
07-09-2016, 07:12 PM
#30
Safety Car
Member Since: Nov 2007
Location: Tarpon Springs FL
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Problem with this logic is the 60's cars could only go around a corner at about 25mph, how much trouble can you get into at that speed? The new Vette will take that same corner at 90mph so the risk is MUCH GREATER. And today's Vette is way quicker than the old big blocks of yore. Proving your manhood does not include driving with no nannies.
07-09-2016, 08:01 PM
#31
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Member Since: Sep 2007
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[QUOTE=driver9;1592595504]
Need to find the edge. Every time I watch a ProStock car on TV hit the wall I'm reminded they are Pro Drivers.
I watched Rickie Smith at the Darlington SC Dragway some years ago flip his brand new ProMod car at the end of the track! I was sitting in the stands at the finish line. Car was totaled. He was OK and went to the announcing booth and said, "I did what I tell all my students not to do (he runs a drag racing school) I waited a split second to long when I felt it getting sideways!"
I remind myself of that every time one of my 16.5 inch section width tires in my ProStreet Rod looses traction. It only takes a split second! You always have to find where the edge is in launch rpm and it's usually one tire on slightly different pavement that spins first!
PS: Love watching Chris Karamesines at 85 year old drive his AA/Fuel dragster at National NHRA meets- never too old!
If you are not racing, do not want to smoke the tires or get the experience of controlling the car under full power leave it on.[/QUOTE
I do want to get the experience of controlling the car under full power. I just don't want that experience to end badly, like the unfortunate drivers in the video I linked (and the victims who they struck with their cars).
I'm trying to figure out how to explore the nannies-off mode without regretting it. Spring Mountain used to have a level 3 course where they did stuff without any nannies, but I didn't get around to doing it and now they don't offer it. If I knew they were getting rid of it, I would have hurried up and done it.
I do want to get the experience of controlling the car under full power. I just don't want that experience to end badly, like the unfortunate drivers in the video I linked (and the victims who they struck with their cars).
I'm trying to figure out how to explore the nannies-off mode without regretting it. Spring Mountain used to have a level 3 course where they did stuff without any nannies, but I didn't get around to doing it and now they don't offer it. If I knew they were getting rid of it, I would have hurried up and done it.
Need to find the edge. Every time I watch a ProStock car on TV hit the wall I'm reminded they are Pro Drivers. I watched Rickie Smith at the Darlington SC Dragway some years ago flip his brand new ProMod car at the end of the track! I was sitting in the stands at the finish line. Car was totaled. He was OK and went to the announcing booth and said, "I did what I tell all my students not to do (he runs a drag racing school) I waited a split second to long when I felt it getting sideways!"
I remind myself of that every time one of my 16.5 inch section width tires in my ProStreet Rod looses traction. It only takes a split second! You always have to find where the edge is in launch rpm and it's usually one tire on slightly different pavement that spins first!
PS: Love watching Chris Karamesines at 85 year old drive his AA/Fuel dragster at National NHRA meets- never too old!
Last edited by JerryU; 07-09-2016 at 11:18 PM.
07-09-2016, 08:41 PM
#32
Drifting
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=JerryU;1592596853]
I read Ross Bentley's book Ultimate Speed Secrets: The Complete Guide to High-Performance and Race Driving (
https://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Spee.../dp/0760340501) and he wrote something in it that made me realize I could never be a competitive racer. He said that to be a competitive racer you have to be willing to drive beyond the edge of control.
I know that's not me, so it makes my task both simpler and harder. For sure you can find the edge if you go beyond it, but how do you know that you found the edge if you don't go beyond it.
.
I read Ross Bentley's book Ultimate Speed Secrets: The Complete Guide to High-Performance and Race Driving (
https://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Spee.../dp/0760340501) and he wrote something in it that made me realize I could never be a competitive racer. He said that to be a competitive racer you have to be willing to drive beyond the edge of control.
I know that's not me, so it makes my task both simpler and harder. For sure you can find the edge if you go beyond it, but how do you know that you found the edge if you don't go beyond it.
.
07-09-2016, 09:27 PM
#33
Melting Slicks
Warm tires from driving for at least 5 miles on warm pavement in full sun on a 75 degree day or hotter, hot tire pressure no higher than 27 PSI in the rear and you will have no issues with traction control off with the Michelin pilot supersport tires.
07-09-2016, 09:39 PM
#34
Burning Brakes
Safety first. A lot of people have paid the ultimate price without traction control. That's why they have it now. If your not comfortable turning it off, than don't. Sooner or later you might get the urge to turn it off and will feel more in control with experience, If not enjoy you ride without it. What do you have to lose?
Last edited by phantom1; 07-09-2016 at 11:29 PM.
07-09-2016, 10:03 PM
#36
Melting Slicks
The car really isn't that scary with traction control off, it goes off every time I'm in the car, only time it gets squirrelly is if I no lift shift 1-2. If you're afraid of it and your abilities leave it on.
Some people need to figure out that traction control and stabilitrak/active handling are different systems serving different purposes
Some people need to figure out that traction control and stabilitrak/active handling are different systems serving different purposes
07-09-2016, 10:03 PM
#37
07-09-2016, 10:13 PM
#38
Team Owner
quoting posts is difficult.
07-09-2016, 10:25 PM
#39
Burning Brakes
Great meme, and Ty had me lose it with "here, hold my beer"
07-09-2016, 10:46 PM
#40
Drifting
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=BJ67;1592597312]Warm tires from driving for at least 5 miles on warm pavement in full sun on a 75 degree day or hotter, hot tire pressure no higher than 27 PSI in the rear and you will have no issues with traction control off with the Michelin pilot supersport tires.[/QUOTE
That seems like good info. Some other thread specified a tire pressure that Spring Mountain uses. I think it was around 30 hot. Currently the TMPS is saying I'm running about 38 hot. That's in keeping with the 2016 tire pressure recommendations which were mysteriously raised from the 2014-15 recommended pressure. I haven't gotten around to lowering the pressure yet. Partly because tires supposedly run hotter at lower pressures and everything is pretty hot around here already so I'm running the tires at what I hope is a cooler temperature.
That seems like good info. Some other thread specified a tire pressure that Spring Mountain uses. I think it was around 30 hot. Currently the TMPS is saying I'm running about 38 hot. That's in keeping with the 2016 tire pressure recommendations which were mysteriously raised from the 2014-15 recommended pressure. I haven't gotten around to lowering the pressure yet. Partly because tires supposedly run hotter at lower pressures and everything is pretty hot around here already so I'm running the tires at what I hope is a cooler temperature.