Mid-Engine and C8 article from Detroit News
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Mid-Engine and C8 article from Detroit News
The major elements of this are what I have posted for quite some time...and I firmly believe the model year dates are correct.
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...-due/88054852/
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...-due/88054852/
General Motors Co. intends to start selling a mid-engine Chevrolet Corvette in early 2019, according to multiple sources familiar with the company’s planning.
While America’s iconic sports car has gone through seven generations of upgrades since it debuted in 1953, a mid-engine architecture would be the most radical change in Corvette history. The sources, who asked not to be identified because company plans have not been made public, said production of the mid-engine rocket would eventually be the only Corvette produced. One of those people said the current, front-engine C7’s Z06 and Grand Sport models would continue through 2021.
The eighth-generation Corvette C8 – codenamed “Emperor” — is targeted for an unveiling in early 2018, sources said.
“We do not comment on future product plans,” a Chevy spokesperson said.
One former GM employee with knowledge of the project said, “It’s happening. Mark Reuss wants it,” referring to the automaker’s global product development chief. “It’s the worst-kept secret in town.”
Chevy has long been concerned by Corvette’s aging demographic, and a mid-engine performance car could appeal to younger buyers.
“The median age of the Corvette buyer got three years older while I was there, which scared the hell out of us,” says Tom Wallace, who was Corvette’s chief engineer from 2006 until 2008.
Some sources say a mid-engine Corvette could be the basis for a Cadillac sports car.
When Cadillac President Johan de Nysschen was asked by Motor Trend last fall if a Cadillac “halo” car based on a mid-engine Corvette might be in the cards, he replied: “It has to be one of the options that we consider. In the future there are going to be some architectures inside the corporation that will remain purely Cadillac, but then there are others where it just isn’t economically feasible to enter segments by trying to do a unique Cadillac. Then you look at what’s available in terms of corporate assets. And I’m sure you’d agree that a new, very advanced Corvette platform wouldn’t be a bad place to start.”
C8 characteristics
With the engine located behind the driver and in front of the rear wheels, mid-engine sports cars are prized by performance-car fans for their balanced handling characteristics. The mid-engine format would make it more current with Corvette race-program competitors like the much-pricier Ferrari 488 and Ford GT.
The C8 is expected to be equipped with performance innovations like an active-aerodynamic system to enhance downforce, according to Car & Driver’s Don Sherman, who has been following the car’s development since 2014. The magazine says the next-generation Corvette will be powered by the tried-and-true small-block pushrod V-8 to keep costs down.
The mid-engine format would allow GM more flexibility to make performance variants — perhaps an all-wheel drive, plug-in hybrid model with electric motors driving the front wheels. That would put it head-to-head — at a more modest price — with cutting-edge, mid-engine hybrid supercars such as the Acura NSX and Porsche 918.
GM and Chevrolet last year trademarked the names Corvette E-Ray and Manta Ray. The names, some analysts believe, indicate the company is considering multiple vehicle variants.
Bob Lutz, GM’s former head of product development, speculates that the program’s long lead time — the C8 wouldn’t go into production until late 2018 — foreshadows an electric version “with 10- to 15-mile plug-in electric capability.”
“That would only require a 5-kWh battery, or $1,300 at today’s lithium-ion prices (plus motors and control hardware),” he said in an email. “It would be enough to give it a 50 mpg city label, and the electric motors at the front would enable limited AWD capability.”
The company recently announced investments totaling nearly $800 million in its Bowling Green Assembly Plant in Kentucky, where Corvettes are built. That includes $153 million for improving vehicle assembly line processes, on top of $137 million in previously committed capital. Last year, GM said it would invest $439 million for a new paint shop and $44 million to expand its Performance Build Center.
The plant is expected to be shut down for three months in mid- to late-2017 for retooling.
Lutz and Wallace say that they and then-Corvette Assistant Chief Engineer Tadge Juechter got the mid-engine Corvette approved in 2007, only to see the project shelved while GM went through bankruptcy reorganization in 2009.
Lutz says the $800 million Bowling Green investment figure is in line with what was asked for nine years ago.
“The program I got approved in ’07 was $900 million,” Lutz says, “and included a Cadillac XLR with a supercharged Northstar engine. If the current program is $800 million, I’d bet it includes a different-bodied Cadillac again as well.”
From ‘what-if’ to project
Corvette faithful have already begun putting down deposits on the car. Les Stanford Chevrolet in Dearborn, one of the top three Corvette sellers in the United States, confirms about two dozen customers have put down $2,000 on the C8 to be first in line.
“The potential for a mid-engine Corvette is in the future,” says General Sales Manager Scott Montgomery. “We have a lot of attention from members of the enthusiast community who have never been wrong.”
In addition to publishing spy shots of a camouflaged, mid-engine car undergoing testing, Car & Driver created computer renderings of the C8 featuring a muscular stance and low, menacing nose. The renderings are based on descriptions of the production prototype by people who have seen the car’s design.
Stephanie Brinley, a senior analyst with forecasting firm IHS Markit, said there have been rumors of a mid-engine Corvette for a decade. “It seems to be maturing from a ‘what-if’ to a project,” she said.
Pricing a new Corvette in line with Chevrolet and its value-brand philosophy will be important, Brinley said. It can’t have a $450,000 sticker price like the Ford GT. But Brinley said there is some space for a price increase over today’s $55,445 base C7.
GM has flirted with mid-engine Corvettes in the past, particularly in the 1960s when Chief Engineer Zora Arkus-Duntov argued it was a superior architecture. Arkus-Duntov produced four mid-engine concepts from 1960-70, including the 1968 “Astro II.”
The Astro was a reaction to the mid-engine 1966 Ford GT-40 and its stunning success at the 24 Hours of LeMans. Fifty years later, another Ford GT has won LeMans — and this time GM’s response appears to be a full-blown, mid-engine production C8.
hpayne@detroitnews.com
While America’s iconic sports car has gone through seven generations of upgrades since it debuted in 1953, a mid-engine architecture would be the most radical change in Corvette history. The sources, who asked not to be identified because company plans have not been made public, said production of the mid-engine rocket would eventually be the only Corvette produced. One of those people said the current, front-engine C7’s Z06 and Grand Sport models would continue through 2021.
The eighth-generation Corvette C8 – codenamed “Emperor” — is targeted for an unveiling in early 2018, sources said.
“We do not comment on future product plans,” a Chevy spokesperson said.
One former GM employee with knowledge of the project said, “It’s happening. Mark Reuss wants it,” referring to the automaker’s global product development chief. “It’s the worst-kept secret in town.”
Chevy has long been concerned by Corvette’s aging demographic, and a mid-engine performance car could appeal to younger buyers.
“The median age of the Corvette buyer got three years older while I was there, which scared the hell out of us,” says Tom Wallace, who was Corvette’s chief engineer from 2006 until 2008.
Some sources say a mid-engine Corvette could be the basis for a Cadillac sports car.
When Cadillac President Johan de Nysschen was asked by Motor Trend last fall if a Cadillac “halo” car based on a mid-engine Corvette might be in the cards, he replied: “It has to be one of the options that we consider. In the future there are going to be some architectures inside the corporation that will remain purely Cadillac, but then there are others where it just isn’t economically feasible to enter segments by trying to do a unique Cadillac. Then you look at what’s available in terms of corporate assets. And I’m sure you’d agree that a new, very advanced Corvette platform wouldn’t be a bad place to start.”
C8 characteristics
With the engine located behind the driver and in front of the rear wheels, mid-engine sports cars are prized by performance-car fans for their balanced handling characteristics. The mid-engine format would make it more current with Corvette race-program competitors like the much-pricier Ferrari 488 and Ford GT.
The C8 is expected to be equipped with performance innovations like an active-aerodynamic system to enhance downforce, according to Car & Driver’s Don Sherman, who has been following the car’s development since 2014. The magazine says the next-generation Corvette will be powered by the tried-and-true small-block pushrod V-8 to keep costs down.
The mid-engine format would allow GM more flexibility to make performance variants — perhaps an all-wheel drive, plug-in hybrid model with electric motors driving the front wheels. That would put it head-to-head — at a more modest price — with cutting-edge, mid-engine hybrid supercars such as the Acura NSX and Porsche 918.
GM and Chevrolet last year trademarked the names Corvette E-Ray and Manta Ray. The names, some analysts believe, indicate the company is considering multiple vehicle variants.
Bob Lutz, GM’s former head of product development, speculates that the program’s long lead time — the C8 wouldn’t go into production until late 2018 — foreshadows an electric version “with 10- to 15-mile plug-in electric capability.”
“That would only require a 5-kWh battery, or $1,300 at today’s lithium-ion prices (plus motors and control hardware),” he said in an email. “It would be enough to give it a 50 mpg city label, and the electric motors at the front would enable limited AWD capability.”
The company recently announced investments totaling nearly $800 million in its Bowling Green Assembly Plant in Kentucky, where Corvettes are built. That includes $153 million for improving vehicle assembly line processes, on top of $137 million in previously committed capital. Last year, GM said it would invest $439 million for a new paint shop and $44 million to expand its Performance Build Center.
The plant is expected to be shut down for three months in mid- to late-2017 for retooling.
Lutz and Wallace say that they and then-Corvette Assistant Chief Engineer Tadge Juechter got the mid-engine Corvette approved in 2007, only to see the project shelved while GM went through bankruptcy reorganization in 2009.
Lutz says the $800 million Bowling Green investment figure is in line with what was asked for nine years ago.
“The program I got approved in ’07 was $900 million,” Lutz says, “and included a Cadillac XLR with a supercharged Northstar engine. If the current program is $800 million, I’d bet it includes a different-bodied Cadillac again as well.”
From ‘what-if’ to project
Corvette faithful have already begun putting down deposits on the car. Les Stanford Chevrolet in Dearborn, one of the top three Corvette sellers in the United States, confirms about two dozen customers have put down $2,000 on the C8 to be first in line.
“The potential for a mid-engine Corvette is in the future,” says General Sales Manager Scott Montgomery. “We have a lot of attention from members of the enthusiast community who have never been wrong.”
In addition to publishing spy shots of a camouflaged, mid-engine car undergoing testing, Car & Driver created computer renderings of the C8 featuring a muscular stance and low, menacing nose. The renderings are based on descriptions of the production prototype by people who have seen the car’s design.
Stephanie Brinley, a senior analyst with forecasting firm IHS Markit, said there have been rumors of a mid-engine Corvette for a decade. “It seems to be maturing from a ‘what-if’ to a project,” she said.
Pricing a new Corvette in line with Chevrolet and its value-brand philosophy will be important, Brinley said. It can’t have a $450,000 sticker price like the Ford GT. But Brinley said there is some space for a price increase over today’s $55,445 base C7.
GM has flirted with mid-engine Corvettes in the past, particularly in the 1960s when Chief Engineer Zora Arkus-Duntov argued it was a superior architecture. Arkus-Duntov produced four mid-engine concepts from 1960-70, including the 1968 “Astro II.”
The Astro was a reaction to the mid-engine 1966 Ford GT-40 and its stunning success at the 24 Hours of LeMans. Fifty years later, another Ford GT has won LeMans — and this time GM’s response appears to be a full-blown, mid-engine production C8.
hpayne@detroitnews.com
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08-04-2016, 12:48 PM
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I'm not sure about you two, but when I go to the C7 general discussion forum, all of the threads don't automatically open up for me. On my computer, I actually have the option to click on the threads I want to open and read.
When the C8 forum is created, I'll post C8 information there. Not a problem at all.
When the C8 forum is created, I'll post C8 information there. Not a problem at all.
#2
Last edited by ovrebo1; 08-04-2016 at 12:28 PM.
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St. Jude Donor '12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17
I don't understand why there isn't one C8/Zora/mid-engine thread that all of this speculation stuff gets posted in. Why clutter up the C7 Gen section with lots of threads that have nothing to do with a C7?
#4
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I'm not sure about you two, but when I go to the C7 general discussion forum, all of the threads don't automatically open up for me. On my computer, I actually have the option to click on the threads I want to open and read.
When the C8 forum is created, I'll post C8 information there. Not a problem at all.
When the C8 forum is created, I'll post C8 information there. Not a problem at all.
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#5
Team Owner
Thanks for sharing and as I stated in one of the other threads obviously something is in the works for the C8 and it looks more and more likely it will be a mid engine car.
#6
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St. Jude Donor '12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17
I'm not sure about you two, but when I go to the C7 general discussion forum, all of the threads don't automatically open up for me. On my computer, I actually have the option to click on the threads I want to open and read.
When the C8 forum is created, I'll post C8 information there. Not a problem at all.
When the C8 forum is created, I'll post C8 information there. Not a problem at all.
As an example, I just did a search of the entire site for all threads with the word Zora in the thread title. There are 271 threads spread across many different sections. There are 208 threads with Mid Engine in the title, again in many different sections. The forum software won't even let you search for "C8" in thread titles so the search function for that is useless. Personally I think it would be helpful to have all of this kind of info in one place instead of spread across the entire forum. YMMV.
#7
I hate clutter too. Even c7 stuff should be limited to 3 new threads per week. Clutter clutter clutter clutter clutter clutter clutter clutter clutter clutter clutter clutter.
#8
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St. Jude Donor '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19
Let's look at it from a different angle, OK? If someone is looking at a Corvette forum for info about a potential upcoming new version, where would they look? At present if they look here they would have to do a search of all of the forums because there are C8/Zora/mid-engine threads in many different sections here. Why not put it in one place just as C1 through C7 topics are in separate forums to make it easier to find relevant info?
As an example, I just did a search of the entire site for all threads with the word Zora in the thread title. There are 271 threads spread across many different sections. There are 208 threads with Mid Engine in the title, again in many different sections. The forum software won't even let you search for "C8" in thread titles so the search function for that is useless. Personally I think it would be helpful to have all of this kind of info in one place instead of spread across the entire forum. YMMV.
As an example, I just did a search of the entire site for all threads with the word Zora in the thread title. There are 271 threads spread across many different sections. There are 208 threads with Mid Engine in the title, again in many different sections. The forum software won't even let you search for "C8" in thread titles so the search function for that is useless. Personally I think it would be helpful to have all of this kind of info in one place instead of spread across the entire forum. YMMV.
#9
I'm not sure about you two, but when I go to the C7 general discussion forum, all of the threads don't automatically open up for me. On my computer, I actually have the option to click on the threads I want to open and read.
When the C8 forum is created, I'll post C8 information there. Not a problem at all.
When the C8 forum is created, I'll post C8 information there. Not a problem at all.
why are you so driven to attempt to stifle reasonable posts about upcoming corvette editions? is it because you look for something to complain about? if so, what does that say about you? if not, why do you have to complain about the same things over and over?
may i simply ask you, if you don't like the topic and you have nothing constructive to say about it, why say anything at all?
#10
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In my feeble mind there has to be a break point in price where the Corvette will no longer be affordable to the huddled masses yearning to drive one. The mid-engine design may just be that breaking point. IMHO
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#12
Le Mans Master
I'm not sure about you two, but when I go to the C7 general discussion forum, all of the threads don't automatically open up for me. On my computer, I actually have the option to click on the threads I want to open and read.
When the C8 forum is created, I'll post C8 information there. Not a problem at all.
When the C8 forum is created, I'll post C8 information there. Not a problem at all.
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Last edited by Steve Garrett; 08-04-2016 at 04:14 PM. Reason: Merged Posts-please use the Multi-Quote button in the lower right hand corner (middle icon).
#14
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St. Jude Donor '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19
Ladies and gentlemen, let's also keep thread posts on topic.
#15
I totally agree. We need more thread like this and A8's overheating, xpel, bad service at dealers, people excited that they just purchased/ordered their car and vendor threads no one comments on.
#17
Chevy has long been concerned by Corvette’s aging demographic, and a mid-engine performance car could appeal to younger buyers.
“The median age of the Corvette buyer got three years older while I was there, which scared the hell out of us,” says Tom Wallace, who was Corvette’s chief engineer from 2006 until 2008.
#18
If I read into this correctly the C7 was supposed to be mid engine if it was already approved on 2007. They must have decided to make a stop gap product (the current C7 platform) until GM got all there Ducks in a row after the bankruptcy.
#19
Race Director
If the posted information is correct, my last new Corvette will be a 2020 or 2021. Oh well!!!!!
Last edited by Larry/car; 08-05-2016 at 05:54 PM.
#20
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St. Jude Donor '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19
I think the article author is wrong about the 2021 C8 being mid-engine.