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St. Jude Donor '12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19-'20-'21-'22-'23
MSRC on the base (FE2) car is significantly less capability than MSRC on Z51 (FE4). FE2 does not include the eLSD, and because of that does not offer PTM. PTM is one of the features that enhances the exit out of the turn. Also I believe FE2 includes an appearance package that being wheels and a spoiler.
The FE2 MSRC shocks are not static like regular shocks which only react one way to forces placed upon them, and there are infinite changes in milliseconds to each MSRC shock in reaction to what it senses as the vehicle is moving.
So, tell us why this option is overpriced. Tell us why it doesn't work as advertised.
"IF" you own a Base Mag car and just street drive it, you will be all smiles, never know the difference and have a few extra bucks in you pocket. "NOW" if you own a Z51 2LT/3LT and "IF" you happen to be an HPDE Instructor, and "IF" you happen to jump into a students "Base" car, then at the first corner entry you will asking yourself "Why is this thing handling like a Mustang"
"IF" you own a Base Mag car and just street drive it, you will be all smiles, never know the difference and have a few extra bucks in you pocket. "NOW" if you own a Z51 2LT/3LT and "IF" you happen to be an HPDE Instructor, and "IF" you happen to jump into a students "Base" car, then at the first corner entry you will asking yourself "Why is this thing handling like a Mustang"
To each there own, enjoy the drive!
Really? Seriously?? That much difference??
Remember, the dealerships Do Not like to give test rides, and many of us drive only 1 Vette at a time. So there is little to no chance to make a comparision, we often buy 'blind' -or- just based on what we read here. So you're not kidding Z51 vs. "Base?" Important: is that base with or w/o MSRC?? (remember thread title)
And to add, I notice your reply didn't include the Z51 1LT. Why?
Last edited by fnbrowning; 08-08-2016 at 09:54 PM.
I can't speak for or against Z51, that's personal choice, but all one has to do is take the version with MSRC through a series of speed bumps to realize just how amazing this feature is... not to mention small potholes and uneven roads, all of which turn up somewhere during regular driving.
Really? Seriously?? That much difference??
Remember, the dealerships Do Not like to give test rides, and many of us drive only 1 Vette at a time. So there is little to no chance to make a comparision, we often buy 'blind' -or- just based on what we read here. So you're not kidding Z51 vs. "Base?" Important: is that base with or w/o MSRC?? (remember thread title)
And to add, I notice your reply didn't include the Z51 1LT. Why?
1LT Z51 uses non-mag ride suspension.
A base car with or with-out Mag will handle about the same.....remember, all you did was change the shocks, not the springs/sway bars. Granted, the mag ride will feel different/stiffer as you turn the **** but that doesn't equate to better performance in the corners, just ride. The suspension is a "tuned" package; springs, shocks, tires, wheels and sway bars.
Again, if you are planning on only street driving, you will never know the difference. Only because I'm on track 2 to 3 weekends a month, I "get" to drive a very wide array vehicles from Fiat Abart's to Ferrari F12's, I tend to feel things that an everyday street driver will not.
I also drive lots of street/Hwy miles (in fact, I'm on a 5K+ mile road trip right now), my '15 Z51 is almost 15 months old and has 31+K miles on it. I were to replace it with a new Vette, it would be another Z51
Really? Seriously?? That much difference??
Remember, the dealerships Do Not like to give test rides, and many of us drive only 1 Vette at a time. So there is little to no chance to make a comparision, we often buy 'blind' -or- just based on what we read here. So you're not kidding Z51 vs. "Base?" Important: is that base with or w/o MSRC?? (remember thread title)
And to add, I notice your reply didn't include the Z51 1LT. Why?
You're not going to get an opportunity to experience the differences on a test drive.
Find a used low mileage stingray with all the options you want and you wont ever have to worry if you should have....I liked the Z51 package more for the larger wheel combo. Found a perfect 1500 mile Z51 convertible 3lt in the color I wanted..They're out there...Stickered for $78,850 delivered to my door 60k back in feb 16.
Click on C7Jake's screen name, randomly skim through some of his responses, and then decide if you want to put any weight on his opinions.
Or the butt-hurt guy that needs to respond to him when he can to express it. Grow up, take it to private messages and stop sh*tting up threads cause you don't like him.
To the OP: I have a base 2LT with mag ride. I love it. I'm also in the "never track / never drag race" club, but do enjoy spirited driving on the occasional deserted on-ramps and back country road.
A base car with or with-out Mag will handle about the same.....remember, all you did was change the shocks, not the springs/sway bars. Granted, the mag ride will feel different/stiffer as you turn the **** but that doesn't equate to better performance in the corners, just ride. The suspension is a "tuned" package; springs, shocks, tires, wheels and sway bars.
Again, if you are planning on only street driving, you will never know the difference. Only because I'm on track 2 to 3 weekends a month, I "get" to drive a very wide array vehicles from Fiat Abart's to Ferrari F12's, I tend to feel things that an everyday street driver will not.
I also drive lots of street/Hwy miles (in fact, I'm on a 5K+ mile road trip right now), my '15 Z51 is almost 15 months old and has 31+K miles on it. I were to replace it with a new Vette, it would be another Z51
Have to kind of disagree with that. I've owned them both and the non-z51 with regular suspension and the 18/19 tires handles like a wet noodle when pushed compared the the FE2 car on sprt or track While I agree that there is more to the suspension than the just the shocks, the Z51 tires are better that come with the FE2 as well, the mag ride does a lot more than just make the car ride stiffer or not.
FE2 does not make the car into a Z51, no argument there, but it certainly improves (along with adding the Z51 tires) the handling of the base car to a degree. Just like the msrc is supposed to improve the handling of the z51.
Have to kind of disagree with that. I've owned them both and the non-z51 with regular suspension and the 18/19 tires handles like a wet noodle when pushed compared the the FE2 car on sprt or track While I agree that there is more to the suspension than the just the shocks, the Z51 tires are better that come with the FE2 as well, the mag ride does a lot more than just make the car ride stiffer or not.
FE2 does not make the car into a Z51, no argument there, but it certainly improves (along with adding the Z51 tires) the handling of the base car to a degree. Just like the msrc is supposed to improve the handling of the z51.
Wet Noodle....OK, I can buy that; I think we are both kinda comparing apples to apples. Be careful with thinking that the msrc improves track handling; what is happening here, you are slowing down reaction time (stiffening) the shock....much like changing the steering feeling as you rotate the ****. Stiffer steering does not give you better feedback to the wheel....it only makes it harder to turn the steering wheel. It's GM way of making a street driver feel like he or she is driving something close to a race prepared car.
Anytime you add a tire with greater mechanical grip, you will indeed improve corning ability....no argument. Michelin did an awesome job with the Z51 rubber; the car pulls numbers like the C6 GS (M6) while using MUCH less rubber on the ground plus they wear twice as long
I believe the OP was comparing a base car with or w/o mag ride against the Z51 with mag.....not mentioning cross-pollinating.
Wet Noodle....OK, I can buy that; I think we are both kinda comparing apples to apples. Be careful with thinking that the msrc improves track handling; what is happening here, you are slowing down reaction time (stiffening) the shock....much like changing the steering feeling as you rotate the ****. Stiffer steering does not give you better feedback to the wheel....it only makes it harder to turn the steering wheel. It's GM way of making a street driver feel like he or she is driving something close to a race prepared car.
Anytime you add a tire with greater mechanical grip, you will indeed improve corning ability....no argument. Michelin did an awesome job with the Z51 rubber; the car pulls numbers like the C6 GS (M6) while using MUCH less rubber on the ground plus they wear twice as long
I believe the OP was comparing a base car with or w/o mag ride against the Z51 with mag.....not mentioning cross-pollinating.
Not really cross pollinating, the base car with msrc comes with the Z51 wheel/tires as part of the package, cant buy it without it. So the tires certainty are part of the equation. Thats what the OP was asking vs the Z51. Also if adding z51 sway bars would help. Might help, but if you want it to handle just like a Z51, buy a Z51.
You can go around in circles forever with this, but here is my take on it. The msrc 'base' car is more stable when whipping around corners than the non-msrc base car and the tires are certainly better. Being more stable gives me a little more confidence in pushing the car harder - thats worth something.
What that would translate to in track time I dont know, I'm not comparing it to a Z51, Z06 or GS on a racetrack, just between two cars I owned and drove daily for a couple years.
I'd get the FE2 with the tires and spoiler and skip the Z51 unless Z51 comes with MRC for $5k. FE2 is not a bad deal and I kinda like the mag ride.
That said, I did the Spring MTN in a Z51 M7 coupe and a track day at Iowa Speedway with my base "ZF1" M7 convertible. (which has the Z51 wheels/tires and spoiler) These events were about 6 weeks apart, but I just didn't feel that my base car was handicapped that much. It still kicked ***. Wet sump engine sustained lots of 1G stuff that day and didn't blow up. (I think) The fastest guy in our group was an experienced track guy running a ZF1 coupe. Last lap, I watched him run with a Z06 as I followed. I was about 1 second a lap slower than them, but I'm a track newb. Was also running with all nannies on since I didn't feel like crashing my car.
Last edited by DAFFYDRUNK; 08-09-2016 at 07:58 PM.
Reason: If I drove as bad as I type, I'd crash for sure...
I'd get the FE2 with the tires and spoiler and skip the Z51 unless Z51 comes with MRC for $5k. FE2 is not a bad deal and I kinda like the mag ride.
That said, I did the Spring MTN in a Z51 M7 coupe and a track day at Iowa Speedway with my base "ZF1" M7 convertible. (which has the Z51 wheels/tires and spoiler) These events were about 6 weeks apart, but I just didn't feel that my base car was handicapped that much. It still kicked ***. Wet sump engine sustained lots of 1G stuff that day and didn't blow up. (I think) The fastest guy in our group was an experienced track guy running a ZF1 coupe. Last lap, I watched him run with a Z06 as I followed. I was about 1 second a lap slower than them, but I'm a track newb. Was also running with all nannies on since I didn't feel like crashing my car.
Buying a Z51 with mag ride is 2 grand more than a non-Z51 with mag ride and NPP exhaust (Z51 comes with NPP). So in reality, for 2 grand you get a lot of track related stuff for that money, the Z51 is certainly a bargain.
A good driver sure helps on a road course, a well prepped civic with a good driver would probably beat me up pretty bad on a road course
Fortunately we have a choice. But today if I wanted a track car I would be buying a GS
Comparing a vettes handling to a mustang? Sorry, I have both. A 2014 GT with 50K miles on it. My vette is a 16 FE2 vert, with 12K miles. All I can say is after driving the vette the mustang feels and handles like a stagecoach. The Stang gets scary fast.. And,if your wondering, my son has the new and improved 2015 performance package GT, a lot better but still no contest.
Comparing a vettes handling to a mustang? Sorry, I have both. A 2014 GT with 50K miles on it. My vette is a 16 FE2 vert, with 12K miles. All I can say is after driving the vette the mustang feels and handles like a stagecoach. The Stang gets scary fast.. And,if your wondering, my son has the new and improved 2015 performance package GT, a lot better but still no contest.
Sorry, I should have been a little more clear with the car models; so far this year I have had students with two Shelby 350 GT's and one Super Snake 500...all with track packs. Both cars run great down the straight but you (I) can feel the added weight of the cars at turn in. Nice cars (and seats) but have the handling characteristics of the base Vette.
Not really cross pollinating, the base car with msrc comes with the Z51 wheel/tires as part of the package, cant buy it without it. So the tires certainty are part of the equation. Thats what the OP was asking vs the Z51. Also if adding z51 sway bars would help. Might help, but if you want it to handle just like a Z51, buy a Z51.
You can go around in circles forever with this, but here is my take on it. The msrc 'base' car is more stable when whipping around corners than the non-msrc base car and the tires are certainly better. Being more stable gives me a little more confidence in pushing the car harder - thats worth something.
What that would translate to in track time I dont know, I'm not comparing it to a Z51, Z06 or GS on a racetrack, just between two cars I owned and drove daily for a couple years.
I ordered mine the way I wanted it, I ordered it with back then with the ZF1 Package which included the upgraded 19 & 20" wheels and tires. I could of ordered it with the Z51 package but did not need or want the dry sump was the main reason and I could live without the E-dif. The base car has HUGE enough brakes. When I first drove the car it handled stable, felt much nicer then the pervious 2009 Z51 I had. After I installed the front and rear Z51 S/Bars it was hard for me to notice a improvement. When driving on the Hwy straight I did not like the way the rear felt, too soft so added the Z51 shocks. I did notice more help form the shocks then bars. I do not take the car to the limit on turns or track the car, I just like to run it at the drags so a Z51 package is not necessary for me.
I just picked up a 16 Z51 wo/msrc, while ultimately cost eliminated it, I was still debating whether msrc would be worth it or not.
I've done a lot of autoX'ing in the past, and looking at the AutoX Forum, not many vettes run msrc, many run aftermarket shocks. In the same vein, I want the extra coolers.
I traded a 13 GS for my Z51, that too (a 17 GS) was a big consideration, but some consideration was that buying track shoes would be cheaper with the Z51, and after driving a SS Camaro with the smaller tires in the hills outside San Francisco, I didn't think there'd be much of a penalty.
08-08-2016, 09:04 PM
, never know the difference and have a few extra bucks in you pocket. "NOW" if you own a Z51 2LT/3LT and "IF" you happen to be an HPDE Instructor, and "IF" you happen to jump into a students "Base" car, then at the first corner entry you will asking yourself "Why is this thing handling like a Mustang" 
