Z51 vs GS? What should I get?
08-25-2016, 11:29 AM
#1
Z51 vs GS? What should I get?
After 6 years of BMW driving is time to try something else so I I have decided to get a Corvette C7. This decision was made after reading a lot of material about C7, the huge improvement made specially on handling and the overall performance the car offers at the track. I also want to point out that track performance was the major factor on my decision as well reliability, cost and potential improvements. On all cases I would say Corvette did better than M4, Mustang, M2, ....
I spent quite some time reading various post on this forum in order to get used to C7 platform and be able to understand what should I know and ask. I am pretty sure there is a lot to learn over the next years but follow below where I would like to get your help.
Before I forget my plan is to get an A8 that will be mostly driven at the track.
1) Is that possible to update a Z51 to get same handling performance as a GS ( disregard brakes as understand they are very similar )?
2) I know people running Z51 with 315/30/18 all corners what is very close to GS. Not much gain here on GS?
3) T1 coilover Z51 vs GS MRC. Which one is better at the track?
4) I know Z51 2017 good upgrades on cooling for A8. Is that the same upgrade GS gets or GS gets something else?
5) Will be possible to officially upgrade tranny cooling on 2015 Z51?
One of my thoughts is to get an used 2015 Z51 ( ~ 45-50k ) instead of getting new GS ( ~ 70k ) and some money to bring its performance to the same level as GS or better but still keep it clean and warranty.
I am pretty sure will have more questions but this is already a good start. thank you!
I spent quite some time reading various post on this forum in order to get used to C7 platform and be able to understand what should I know and ask. I am pretty sure there is a lot to learn over the next years but follow below where I would like to get your help.
Before I forget my plan is to get an A8 that will be mostly driven at the track.
1) Is that possible to update a Z51 to get same handling performance as a GS ( disregard brakes as understand they are very similar )?
2) I know people running Z51 with 315/30/18 all corners what is very close to GS. Not much gain here on GS?
3) T1 coilover Z51 vs GS MRC. Which one is better at the track?
4) I know Z51 2017 good upgrades on cooling for A8. Is that the same upgrade GS gets or GS gets something else?
5) Will be possible to officially upgrade tranny cooling on 2015 Z51?
One of my thoughts is to get an used 2015 Z51 ( ~ 45-50k ) instead of getting new GS ( ~ 70k ) and some money to bring its performance to the same level as GS or better but still keep it clean and warranty.
I am pretty sure will have more questions but this is already a good start. thank you!
08-25-2016, 12:57 PM
#2
Team Owner
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After 6 years of BMW driving is time to try something else so I I have decided to get a Corvette C7. This decision was made after reading a lot of material about C7, the huge improvement made specially on handling and the overall performance the car offers at the track. I also want to point out that track performance was the major factor on my decision as well reliability, cost and potential improvements. On all cases I would say Corvette did better than M4, Mustang, M2, ....
I spent quite some time reading various post on this forum in order to get used to C7 platform and be able to understand what should I know and ask. I am pretty sure there is a lot to learn over the next years but follow below where I would like to get your help.
Before I forget my plan is to get an A8 that will be mostly driven at the track.
1) Is that possible to update a Z51 to get same handling performance as a GS ( disregard brakes as understand they are very similar )? YES
2) I know people running Z51 with 315/30/18 all corners what is very close to GS. Not much gain here on GS? YES AFTERMARKET RIMS TO KEEP IT ALL UNDER THE FENDERS
3) T1 coilover Z51 vs GS MRC. Which one is better at the track? T1 COILOVER HAS TO BE IF SET UP CORRET
4) I know Z51 2017 good upgrades on cooling for A8. Is that the same upgrade GS gets or GS gets something else? THE GS GET JUST A LITTLE BIGGER COOLER.
5) Will be possible to officially upgrade tranny cooling on 2015 Z51? YES LG MOTORSPORTS HAS A GREAT SET UP FOR THE A8 TRANS, PLUS ONE GUY IN HERE IS RUNNING THE STOCK TRANS COOLER WITH THE BIGGER LG TRANS COOLER ON THE TRACK NOW. HAS SAID ALL OF HIS OVER HEATING HAS GONE AWAY.
One of my thoughts is to get an used 2015 Z51 ( ~ 45-50k ) instead of getting new GS ( ~ 70k ) and some money to bring its performance to the same level as GS or better but still keep it clean and warranty. IF ME I WOULD JUST BITE THE BULLET AND GO FOR THE NEW 2017 GS.. YOU WILL END UP LIKING IT MUCH BETTER.
I am pretty sure will have more questions but this is already a good start. thank you!
I spent quite some time reading various post on this forum in order to get used to C7 platform and be able to understand what should I know and ask. I am pretty sure there is a lot to learn over the next years but follow below where I would like to get your help.
Before I forget my plan is to get an A8 that will be mostly driven at the track.
1) Is that possible to update a Z51 to get same handling performance as a GS ( disregard brakes as understand they are very similar )? YES
2) I know people running Z51 with 315/30/18 all corners what is very close to GS. Not much gain here on GS? YES AFTERMARKET RIMS TO KEEP IT ALL UNDER THE FENDERS
3) T1 coilover Z51 vs GS MRC. Which one is better at the track? T1 COILOVER HAS TO BE IF SET UP CORRET
4) I know Z51 2017 good upgrades on cooling for A8. Is that the same upgrade GS gets or GS gets something else? THE GS GET JUST A LITTLE BIGGER COOLER.
5) Will be possible to officially upgrade tranny cooling on 2015 Z51? YES LG MOTORSPORTS HAS A GREAT SET UP FOR THE A8 TRANS, PLUS ONE GUY IN HERE IS RUNNING THE STOCK TRANS COOLER WITH THE BIGGER LG TRANS COOLER ON THE TRACK NOW. HAS SAID ALL OF HIS OVER HEATING HAS GONE AWAY.
One of my thoughts is to get an used 2015 Z51 ( ~ 45-50k ) instead of getting new GS ( ~ 70k ) and some money to bring its performance to the same level as GS or better but still keep it clean and warranty. IF ME I WOULD JUST BITE THE BULLET AND GO FOR THE NEW 2017 GS.. YOU WILL END UP LIKING IT MUCH BETTER.
I am pretty sure will have more questions but this is already a good start. thank you!
08-25-2016, 01:01 PM
#3
Drifting
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I believe the Z51 package comes with 255/35-19 front and 285/30-20 rear. Base models have 255/40-18 front and 285/35-19 rear.
Buy either, you'll just love it. I would get the MRC as its a cool thing to play with.
Buy either, you'll just love it. I would get the MRC as its a cool thing to play with.
08-25-2016, 01:29 PM
#5
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08-25-2016, 01:31 PM
#6
Team Owner
08-25-2016, 01:47 PM
#7
Drifting
Well... This is an interesting proposition. I have considered trading my Z51 Callaway in for a GS Callaway since this thing came out due to the fact that it had most of the upgrades that I had either done, or had planned for my Z51 - namely cooling upgrades, suspension & tires.
However, since I've already done them to my car & would take an undoubtedly massive loss, I will stay put in the Z51. Plus, I prefer the narrow body a bit over the wide body, but that's just my preference, so that is irrelevant here.
If I could rewind a year, do it over again and I didn't have a Vette, I would go with the GS and save my upgrades cash because the narrow body preference isn't enough to warrant spending thousands in upgrades to bring a Z51 up to GS spec.
SO... Since you're starting from scratch, it's going to take more cash to bring the Z51 to GS spec for all of the aero changes, tire/suspension changes & cooling changes. Just the wider tires/wheels, GMPP fan, & Z06 grille & 'shoulder vents' significantly eats into the price difference between the GS and Z51 - not to mention if you're going to a coilover setup.
I know... Those GMPP cooling bits are already on my car. They work (kinda) - but they're a bit pricey especially considering that they're thrown in on a GS. So, that's my long-wided $0.02.
However, since I've already done them to my car & would take an undoubtedly massive loss, I will stay put in the Z51. Plus, I prefer the narrow body a bit over the wide body, but that's just my preference, so that is irrelevant here.
If I could rewind a year, do it over again and I didn't have a Vette, I would go with the GS and save my upgrades cash because the narrow body preference isn't enough to warrant spending thousands in upgrades to bring a Z51 up to GS spec.
SO... Since you're starting from scratch, it's going to take more cash to bring the Z51 to GS spec for all of the aero changes, tire/suspension changes & cooling changes. Just the wider tires/wheels, GMPP fan, & Z06 grille & 'shoulder vents' significantly eats into the price difference between the GS and Z51 - not to mention if you're going to a coilover setup.
I know... Those GMPP cooling bits are already on my car. They work (kinda) - but they're a bit pricey especially considering that they're thrown in on a GS. So, that's my long-wided $0.02.
08-25-2016, 02:56 PM
#8
He's considering used why do you think he'd want to spend more than the GS?? Also he's concerned with tracking the car, the extra HP is not as usable as you'd think at many tracks.
BTW, the brakes on the GS are the same as on the Z06/7.
08-25-2016, 03:04 PM
#9
Drifting
Where are you coming up with $14,000 more ???? A 1LT GS is going to run you 65-70K. You can pick up a 1LZ '16 leftover Z06 in the low 70's
Last edited by Scoobydoobydoo; 08-25-2016 at 03:10 PM.
08-25-2016, 03:19 PM
#10
08-25-2016, 03:21 PM
#11
tks for the responses so far. As I said if I can get an used 2015 Z51 and add some upgrades to get to GS performance would be great. I believe the delta today is ~ 20k.
Regarding Z06 I believe is a little bit too much for me now and want first to master the car on a lower HP based before jump into something like Z06.
So follow my thoughts:
1) wheel and tires need to spend anyway on both cases
2) T1 suspension - $3.5k
3) Grille - 0.5k
4) panel vents - 0.2k
5) radiator fan - 0.5k
6) secondary tranny cooler - 0.9k
So in total I should expend 6k and get to the same or very similar level as GS ( I learn brakes are actually better on GS but will stick with Z51 ). Am I missing something important?
One other important that would like your help is regarding MRC vs T1 suspension when compared at the track. Does anybody have already experienced both and could comment? I understand MRC is cool specially when driving around but this is something I am not planning in doing but if MRC is better at the track so it can change my plans.
Regarding Z06 I believe is a little bit too much for me now and want first to master the car on a lower HP based before jump into something like Z06.
So follow my thoughts:
1) wheel and tires need to spend anyway on both cases
2) T1 suspension - $3.5k
3) Grille - 0.5k
4) panel vents - 0.2k
5) radiator fan - 0.5k
6) secondary tranny cooler - 0.9k
So in total I should expend 6k and get to the same or very similar level as GS ( I learn brakes are actually better on GS but will stick with Z51 ). Am I missing something important?
One other important that would like your help is regarding MRC vs T1 suspension when compared at the track. Does anybody have already experienced both and could comment? I understand MRC is cool specially when driving around but this is something I am not planning in doing but if MRC is better at the track so it can change my plans.
08-25-2016, 03:28 PM
#13
Former Vendor
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St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
For track use, I would much rather have the GrandSport over a Z06.....at least if you are wanting to rock the car stock with no modifications. The Z06 is going to take some work if you are going to track it a lot to keep it cool.
I haven't driven a GrandSport on track yet, but the Z51 car did pretty well out of the box and they are easy to work with and of course a bit cheaper.
You do have more brake options with the GS without changing wheels, the base cars still have issues fitting larger brakes behind the stock wheels.
I would say if you left it stock....GrandSport, if you want to mod it....base or Z06 (depends on your budget).
I haven't driven a GrandSport on track yet, but the Z51 car did pretty well out of the box and they are easy to work with and of course a bit cheaper.
You do have more brake options with the GS without changing wheels, the base cars still have issues fitting larger brakes behind the stock wheels.
I would say if you left it stock....GrandSport, if you want to mod it....base or Z06 (depends on your budget).
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JerryU (08-25-2016)
08-25-2016, 03:30 PM
#14
Melting Slicks
Looking deeply into my crystal ball(s) I'm guessing that you are going to be driving this car on average 5k a year(?) with one or two track days per? Unless you are completely infatuated with the GS looks, go for the used Z51.
Having driven a '12 GS (55K miles) prior to '15 Z51 (34K, so far in 15 months) here's the difference between a fat car and base size;
1. Tires are about $500 a set cheaper-apples to apples.
2. Narrower tires track so much better in rain (not nearly as much hydro action going on if any.
3. Narrower tires track much better over truck ruts/dish out asphalt Hwys.
4. MPG will be 2-3 higher than the fat car.
5. You'll have a bunch of cash left over in your pocket to attend the Ron Fellows COS, do up-grades, take a few trips, take your wife/girl friend or both out on a awesome boat cruise
Happy Hunting
Having driven a '12 GS (55K miles) prior to '15 Z51 (34K, so far in 15 months) here's the difference between a fat car and base size;
1. Tires are about $500 a set cheaper-apples to apples.
2. Narrower tires track so much better in rain (not nearly as much hydro action going on if any.
3. Narrower tires track much better over truck ruts/dish out asphalt Hwys.
4. MPG will be 2-3 higher than the fat car.
5. You'll have a bunch of cash left over in your pocket to attend the Ron Fellows COS, do up-grades, take a few trips, take your wife/girl friend or both out on a awesome boat cruise
Happy Hunting
08-25-2016, 04:08 PM
#16
If you plan to daily-drive your car for 98% of its mileage, with only a few track events per year - then I would lean toward the MRC. The reason is that it has multiple settings which allow you to tune firmness, so you can adjust it when you hit one of those bumpy roads. Then, when you get on a smooth newly-paved straightaway, you can re-adjust ("track" mode) and get a suspension that feels very similar to the coilovers.
If you only track the car, then aftermarket coilovers adjusted to the specific track will be "better". IMHO, aftermarket coilovers are generally best when you plan to learn how to tune/adjust them, you have the desire, tools, and time to do that and become proficient at it.
However, the coilovers will never give you adjustability "on the fly", i.e., without leaving the driver's seat. For that reason, I would always prefer the MRC - UNLESS, I was planning to professionally race the Vette, or it was strictly a track car and I had the time/patience/cash to really delve into how the settings affect handling and master that.
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Foosh (08-26-2016)
08-25-2016, 04:15 PM
#18
In 99.999% of cases, the MRC will "handle better" than aftermarket coilovers.
With MRC, you are buying a system that was engineered specifically for your car. Better yet, it allows "on-the-fly" adjustment that has been perfectly engineered for the power, chassis, brakes, etc of your specific car. No need to spend hours tweaking for what would end up being "90% as good" handling performance.
I'm going to tell you from personal experience, aftermarket coilovers can actually be a PITA if you're not taking the time to learn how to adjust them properly, and paying attention to what you're doing. It is not "plug and play". That solution requires some work on your part - unless you are willing to accept compromised performance in 95% of your driving conditions.
And honestly, aftermarket coilovers are not going to give you MRC performance, period. The only real exception being if you are on a race track with a professional tuner very familiar with your coilovers and your car doing the tuning.
The fact that you are asking these questions means the MRC is a much better option. If coilovers were going to be "better" for you, you would already have a specific reason for that, and would be prepared to tune them specifically to your track and vehicle.
Last edited by Dave_the_Dude; 08-25-2016 at 04:17 PM.
08-25-2016, 04:43 PM
#19
Le Mans Master
C6 I'd get a grand sport over the Z51, no questions asked.
C7, it's not worth the extra cash to me. You can get (with the right offsets) pretty big tires under there- and even bigger with fender flares.
I cant imagine many tracks where the Z51 brakes aren't adequate with a proper race pad, even on slicks. They are monsters. Plus, you can get Z06 brakes for about $1250 or so (someone just found Z06 caliper for $450 a pop or something like that).
C7, it's not worth the extra cash to me. You can get (with the right offsets) pretty big tires under there- and even bigger with fender flares.
I cant imagine many tracks where the Z51 brakes aren't adequate with a proper race pad, even on slicks. They are monsters. Plus, you can get Z06 brakes for about $1250 or so (someone just found Z06 caliper for $450 a pop or something like that).
08-25-2016, 04:48 PM
#20
Le Mans Master
The "TLDR" answer to your question is:
In 99.999% of cases, the MRC will "handle better" than aftermarket coilovers.
With MRC, you are buying a system that was engineered specifically for your car. Better yet, it allows "on-the-fly" adjustment that has been perfectly engineered for the power, chassis, brakes, etc of your specific car. No need to spend hours tweaking for what would end up being "90% as good" handling performance.
I'm going to tell you from personal experience, aftermarket coilovers can actually be a PITA if you're not taking the time to learn how to adjust them properly, and paying attention to what you're doing. It is not "plug and play". That solution requires some work on your part - unless you are willing to accept compromised performance in 95% of your driving conditions.
And honestly, aftermarket coilovers are not going to give you MRC performance, period. The only real exception being if you are on a race track with a professional tuner very familiar with your coilovers and your car doing the tuning.
The fact that you are asking these questions means the MRC is a much better option. If coilovers were going to be "better" for you, you would already have a specific reason for that, and would be prepared to tune them specifically to your track and vehicle.
In 99.999% of cases, the MRC will "handle better" than aftermarket coilovers.
With MRC, you are buying a system that was engineered specifically for your car. Better yet, it allows "on-the-fly" adjustment that has been perfectly engineered for the power, chassis, brakes, etc of your specific car. No need to spend hours tweaking for what would end up being "90% as good" handling performance.
I'm going to tell you from personal experience, aftermarket coilovers can actually be a PITA if you're not taking the time to learn how to adjust them properly, and paying attention to what you're doing. It is not "plug and play". That solution requires some work on your part - unless you are willing to accept compromised performance in 95% of your driving conditions.
And honestly, aftermarket coilovers are not going to give you MRC performance, period. The only real exception being if you are on a race track with a professional tuner very familiar with your coilovers and your car doing the tuning.
The fact that you are asking these questions means the MRC is a much better option. If coilovers were going to be "better" for you, you would already have a specific reason for that, and would be prepared to tune them specifically to your track and vehicle.
I had coilovers on a car once. Tuning them is its own science fair project. I eventually just gave up and rode with whatever I had. Every time I changed something, it would screw up some other handling characteristic
And I'm not smart or fast enough to figure it all out. I've driven cars not well set up with coilovers and its a nightmare- way worse than stock. We're talking mid engine cars that spin on exit under load. Randomly. It was terrifying.
According to fast guys at the track that messed with it, MRC is pretty impressive on the track. It stiffens the front when you brake, softens the rear under load, etc etc. It's not just static. That's why it's so cool.
Last edited by village idiot; 08-25-2016 at 04:50 PM.