Is the C7 a disposable car if in a crash? It just might be.
10-20-2016, 07:34 PM
#21
I am an auto adjuster, and if the vehicle manufacturer/ICAR have instructions for sectioning a frame(what you are describing as clipping), then that is a valid repair.
To the statement that the frame is un-repairable and would total the vehicle, that comes down to dollars and cents. A new or used frame can be used, and generally runs about 25 hours of repair time and anywhere from 2k to 6k cost for the part. That is going to bring the repair to anywhere from 6-10k, and on a 40k car, its getting a new frame, and repaired(depending on what else is damaged)
To the statement that the frame is un-repairable and would total the vehicle, that comes down to dollars and cents. A new or used frame can be used, and generally runs about 25 hours of repair time and anywhere from 2k to 6k cost for the part. That is going to bring the repair to anywhere from 6-10k, and on a 40k car, its getting a new frame, and repaired(depending on what else is damaged)
10-20-2016, 10:43 PM
#22
Advanced
If you have a 2014 Corvette, how is your insurance company using a frame from another 2014 Corvette not ok? The part on your car was not new?
Your statement contradicts its self. You say you don't use your own company, and your next sentence says you would use your company to proceed with a subrogation of the repair.
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10-20-2016, 11:16 PM
#23
Team Owner
A lot of times frame damage is considered salvage, I would not drive a frame damaged salvaged titled car.
Last edited by themonk; 10-20-2016 at 11:19 PM.
10-20-2016, 11:22 PM
#24
I have a rider on my Nationwide policy for all my vehicles that specifies only new, OEM parts.
10-20-2016, 11:27 PM
#25
http://gm.oemdtc.com/2833/non-approv...ars-and-trucks
10-21-2016, 03:18 AM
#26
Instructor
Gm has repair methods for the entire frame components on the C7. There's info down to the mm length of welds required, wire to use and 3D dimensions. I think the trucks use a complete frame replacement as there's no parts in sections like the vette.
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10-21-2016, 11:44 AM
#27
Drifting
I would suggest you check your insurance policy. I am not aware of any company that does not use "recycled parts" Some companies may have a rider on there policy that you pay extra for to only get new parts(I have heard of this, never seen it).
If you have a 2014 Corvette, how is your insurance company using a frame from another 2014 Corvette not ok? The part on your car was not new?
Your statement contradicts its self. You say you don't use your own company, and your next sentence says you would use your company to proceed with a subrogation of the repair.
If you have a 2014 Corvette, how is your insurance company using a frame from another 2014 Corvette not ok? The part on your car was not new?
Your statement contradicts its self. You say you don't use your own company, and your next sentence says you would use your company to proceed with a subrogation of the repair.
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10-21-2016, 12:02 PM
#28
My personal Lawyer is dealing with a case from Allstate where an insured was hit by an un insured motorist and Allstate is refusing to pay the claim. They took Allstate to court and a judge ordered Allstate to pay the claim and that was two months ago and Allstate is still refusing to pay.
When my motorcycle accident occurred 4+ years ago, the initial estimate on repairing the ~2 year old bike was ~$8K. The BB value of the bike at the time was just over $10K. Not only did they approve for the repairs (instead of totaling the bike), the approved two (I think three, actually) supplements that, in the end, costed them over $13K ... to fix a bike worth $10K.
10-21-2016, 12:44 PM
#29
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Bill
10-21-2016, 12:56 PM
#30
Race Director
I am an auto adjuster, and if the vehicle manufacturer/ICAR have instructions for sectioning a frame(what you are describing as clipping), then that is a valid repair.
To the statement that the frame is un-repairable and would total the vehicle, that comes down to dollars and cents. A new or used frame can be used, and generally runs about 25 hours of repair time and anywhere from 2k to 6k cost for the part. That is going to bring the repair to anywhere from 6-10k, and on a 40k car, its getting a new frame, and repaired(depending on what else is damaged)
To the statement that the frame is un-repairable and would total the vehicle, that comes down to dollars and cents. A new or used frame can be used, and generally runs about 25 hours of repair time and anywhere from 2k to 6k cost for the part. That is going to bring the repair to anywhere from 6-10k, and on a 40k car, its getting a new frame, and repaired(depending on what else is damaged)
Last edited by jimmyb; 10-21-2016 at 12:56 PM.
10-21-2016, 01:39 PM
#31
Le Mans Master
Your OWN insurance company is paying? You've agreed, in writing, to accept the terms, so you're likely stuck.
The other driver's insurance company is covering the damage? YOU did not agree to their terms prior to the accident, so the defendant's insurance company may and sometimes does go beyond the proscribed remedies in their policy to avoid a costly court date. Of course, their 1st response to you is to try to make you believe *you* are bound by *their* policy "restrictions" on what parts will be used and how replacements are made -- "Well, Mr Smith, the policy of our insured who hit you only allows for generic or used auto parts, so I'm afraid that's all our company will cover on your repair. But trust me, they only use 'good' parts, so there's nothing to worry about -- you won't be able to tell the difference! Just sign here on this settlement agreement, and we'll get the ball rolling on your repair and get you back on the road."... LOL
*Note: So-called "No Fault" state laws can change the above, so it isn't always simple, depending on your state.
Last edited by Kent1999; 10-21-2016 at 03:49 PM.
10-21-2016, 03:27 PM
#32
Drifting
This is the point I tried to make in post 16. It is clear, GM's definition of clipping is not what the OP is talking about.
There is no way I would want a car which had been rebuilt per GM's definition. That method if for the guys who are rebuilding salvage titled cars. No thanks.
There is no way I would want a car which had been rebuilt per GM's definition. That method if for the guys who are rebuilding salvage titled cars. No thanks.
That may be what you mean when you say Clipping but the TSB clearly defines what they mean by Clipping and it doesn't coincide with your meaning. The service manual has a section on Collision Repair that includes repairs to the frame rails and how to weld cast aluminum. The instructions tell where and how to cut the frame to replace a damaged section. Check pages 3-68 through 3-103 in the 2015 FSM for the appropriate information.
Bill
Bill
Last edited by Boiler_81; 10-21-2016 at 03:28 PM.
10-21-2016, 07:21 PM
#33
They require them to honor warranty repairs and then reimburse them for less than the actual cost of doing the repair. That is why some dealers try to avoid warranty work if at all possible.
It really is a business decision by GM that makes this kind of stuff happen, and they are after all a for profit company, not a charity.
10-21-2016, 07:51 PM
#34
Very true and that is what most manufacturers do to their dealers.
They require them to honor warranty repairs and then reimburse them for less than the actual cost of doing the repair. That is why some dealers try to avoid warranty work if at all possible.
It really is a business decision by GM that makes this kind of stuff happen, and they are after all a for profit company, not a charity.
They require them to honor warranty repairs and then reimburse them for less than the actual cost of doing the repair. That is why some dealers try to avoid warranty work if at all possible.
It really is a business decision by GM that makes this kind of stuff happen, and they are after all a for profit company, not a charity.
10-21-2016, 07:58 PM
#35
I'll tell you what.........that ensuing disaster where the car then got rained on in the interior with the targa top off, gave me some precautions that I will want to have on place in my mind and see what can be done to truly ensure my C7 I plan to purchase doesn't get in that same situation.
When the guy hired an independent insurance investigation of "diminished value, " is when the wheels came off. I gotta learn about all that stuff - and see if I can buy an automatic new bridge insurance policy to get me in a new C7, instead of jacking with that type of insurance h#ll.
When the guy hired an independent insurance investigation of "diminished value, " is when the wheels came off. I gotta learn about all that stuff - and see if I can buy an automatic new bridge insurance policy to get me in a new C7, instead of jacking with that type of insurance h#ll.
10-24-2016, 07:34 AM
#36
Burning Brakes
That would suck but then again about 25 years ago not on a vette. A friend was getting his car repaired at a body shop and he was driving this car over a RR tracks. The car just almost broke into just behind the front seat. But what it did was just behind the seat went to the ground. No one was hurt I just 
10-24-2016, 08:07 AM
#37
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
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Do you remember the recent thread here where a member had been rear ended and the dealer took the car apart and cut the frame to weld in a new section? Then State Farm and the Lizard refused to pay for the repairs? Here is why. GM has not yet certified C7 frame repair procedures as being crash worthy or even road worthy after a frame repair. In fact there is no approved method to even repair the frame and this is why the work was stopped on that guys car. This may make the C7 non repairable if any frame damage happens in a crash.
They had detailed procedures for repairing the aluminum frame on C6 Z06's. Used some of those when writing a book for CarTech on "Advanced Automotive Welding." I don't have access to that manual for a C7 but there is some info in the 2014 Service Manual, pics below. There is one showing how to repair the crushable sections with outlined welding procedures. The body frame manual details frame measurements etc. The C6 was even more difficult since it used single piece car length hydroformed side frame members. The C7 side members are made of about 8 smaller sections welded together.
Pic from GM 2014 Service manual frame repair section showing how to weld aluminum frame.
Crushable Section Welding to Casting
Last edited by JerryU; 10-24-2016 at 10:59 AM.
10-24-2016, 08:33 AM
#38
Le Mans Master
Except the legal minimum, which is what most people have, is $25 or $30k for property damage. It's why I have 100k un/under insured coverage.
10-24-2016, 11:18 AM
#39
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Do you remember the recent thread here where a member had been rear ended and the dealer took the car apart and cut the frame to weld in a new section? Then State Farm and the Lizard refused to pay for the repairs? Here is why. GM has not yet certified C7 frame repair procedures as being crash worthy or even road worthy after a frame repair. In fact there is no approved method to even repair the frame and this is why the work was stopped on that guys car. This may make the C7 non repairable if any frame damage happens in a crash.
There is a detailed collision repair manual that body shops have and it would outline the procedures and weld sequence etc. The key is to be sure to find a quality shop that knows how to weld aluminum.
Last edited by JerryU; 10-24-2016 at 11:26 AM.
10-24-2016, 11:27 AM
#40
The Jaguar F-Type has an all-aluminum frame and body. Since I owned one, I learned that Jaguar is very strict about certifying specific shops, and they are the only approved places to have collision repair done, otherwise the warranty is voided. It does require special procedures for welding and frame repair.
The certified shop in my area is also the most highly regarded collision repair shop, and they are also certified by Porsche, Ferrari and other high-end marques. That's the type of shop I'd be searching for if my car was damaged.
The certified shop in my area is also the most highly regarded collision repair shop, and they are also certified by Porsche, Ferrari and other high-end marques. That's the type of shop I'd be searching for if my car was damaged.
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