Gen2

Hi all, this is my first post at Corvette Forum. A little background...I'm in my late 40's and now that our nest is slowly emptying I've been able to enjoy a couple fun cars over the last 5 years: 1) a 2007 BMW Z4M convertible, and 2) a 2014 Porsche 911 4S convertible. Both fun cars for different reasons but I really want a car with that classic V8 sound before they go extinct on me. My Dad has owned a bunch of Vette's, from a '63 to his current 2015. After going for a ride in his 2015 recently I was surprised at the dramatic improvements in design, comfort and technology - yet it still has that muscle car sound and torque. So I'm thinking about buying a 2017 Grand Sport convertible, manual transmission (not many in stock!). I live in the upper Midwest so I typically put 5k - 7k miles/year on my fun cars; this would not be a DD. I plan on driving it 20 miles round trip to/from work once/week during the warmer months, in addition to a longer weekend cruise with a little spirited driving here and there when possible. I also plan on taking it to a 2 mile road course race track once/summer. I'm not a hardcore racer by any means - I just like to get the speed out of my system so I avoid tickets on the regular roads.


Here are a series of questions on my mind - hoping the group can help out.


1) PRICE. I did a "custom build" at my local dealer to get an idea of price. It came in at ~$85k MSRP and the dealer said their standard discount is $5k for that price range. But I looked at Kerbeck's pricing on their GS inventory and it looks like they knock $9k - $10k off, before any negotiation takes place. And I noticed a post somewhere on the forum that noted they received 15% off MSRP. Thoughts on what I should expect to pay if the MSRP is ~$85k?


2) WHERE TO PURCHASE. I always prefer to support local businesses when possible, but if there's a significant discount by purchasing at an out-of-state dealership, I have no issue with that, and I've done it before. Based on your experiences, are there are any dealers I should strongly consider? (Is such a question even allowed on this forum? If not, just disregard.) I travel quite a bit so purchasing anywhere in the continental U.S. is no problem. I'm not overly concerned with which dealer employs "nice people" - rather I'm looking for best deals and knowing that when I show up I'll get the same deal that I struck over the phone or online.


3) TRADE. I need to trade in my 2014 911 but have never had to trade a car in via an out-of-state transaction. Have any of you done this? I'm wondering how the dealer values my vehicle in a way that ensures I don't drive it or transport it ~1,000 miles only to have them nitpick at the car in an effort to make the deal more economically appealing to them. The car is pretty flawless, but I know how many dealers operate. Also, to the extent that any of you have experience selling late model Porsche's, how likely is it that our local Porsche dealer would just buy it in order to resell it? I'll probably give them a call in the coming weeks.


4) Z06. I have to admit the Z06 is very appealing for two main reasons: 1) the wide rear end - which I can get in the GS so the GS checks that box; and 2) the extra HP; the 3.8 or 3.9 0-60 time almost seems pedestrian these days (my 911 is close to that and it can feel slow until it hits 4500 RPM). Almost everything I've read says the extra HP is unnecessary or even scary on the street - true? I also have a 16 year old son at home. While he's very responsible - and has driven the 911 several times (always with Dad in the car!) - the idea that he might handle a 650 HP car scares me. I'm correct in sticking with the GS...right?


5) OPTIONS. Knowing my intended use, what major options or packages would you recommend? Sitting in the salesperson's office going through that custom build process was mind-boggling. Way too many choices. I'm not talking about whether to get a "satin" stripe or a "Jake" stripe; I'm talking about the major options or packages. The salesman tried talking me into an upgraded track package (Z07?) with Brembo brakes, maybe bigger rotors and special seats if I recall right. But for the 4 hours I'll spend on a track once/year, that all seems like overkill. I really don't care if I squeeze out an extra 5 mph or a few seconds on the track. I do care about my money and the value I get for it during 98% of my driving time on city streets.


6) SIDE SKIRTS. I'm still investigating these side skirts (and does that front lip come with the side skirts?). I love the way they look, but I'm worried about how often they'll scrape on inclines like driveway curbs. I don't want to get them if I'm going to have to get them repainted in the shop every year or two. Your experience with these?


7) EXTERIOR COLORS. Yes, I know this is a very subjective topic, but I'd appreciate opinions here. After looking at the picture thread it's clear there are so many good color combinations out there. Let me know your thoughts on any of the following (not really interested in other colors for various reasons):
- Admiral Blue with the red "hash mark" fender stripes, and the white stripe down the middle. You know, that sort of classic looking Grand Sport you see in some of Chevy's materials/websites. This is my leading candidate. My son though thinks it's a little cartoonish, or looks like a matchbox car. He thinks the white stripe is too big and bold.
- Black with red fender stripes, red hood/trunk stripe and red calipers. I think this looks completely bad a**, but...every black vehicle I own is a hassle to keep clean (and I like my fun cars to look immaculate; the older I get, the less I enjoy hand washing them every weekend!). My other concern is that it's hard to really see and appreciate the aggressive lines of the Vette when it's all black.
- Metallic grey with blue or red stripes. This grey color helps with the cleanliness, but grey is just so...grey. My 911 is grey and it just doesn't inspire me aesthetically.


8) HOOD & TRUNK STRIPE. Referencing the hood/trunk stripe being too big and bold, I'm wondering about the group's thoughts on doing custom racing stripes. Imagine putting that same big white stripe down the middle of the car, but then cutting out a couple inches of the middle of that long stripe, revealing Admiral Blue underneath. On the picture page there's a great picture of a guy's silver GS with black racing stripes exactly like I'm talking about. I'm sure I can take it to a body shop to get it done, but I'm wondering if that would impact the resale value of the car if it looks too "custom". I suppose I could always have the stripes removed if necessary.


Thanks again for your help everyone.

jagamajajaran

Hi all, this is my first post at Corvette Forum. A little background...I'm in my late 40's and now that our nest is slowly emptying I've been able to enjoy a couple fun cars over the last 5 years: 1) a 2007 BMW Z4M convertible, and 2) a 2014 Porsche 911 4S convertible. Both fun cars for different reasons but I really want a car with that classic V8 sound before they go extinct on me. My Dad has owned a bunch of Vette's, from a '63 to his current 2015. After going for a ride in his 2015 recently I was surprised at the dramatic improvements in design, comfort and technology - yet it still has that muscle car sound and torque. So I'm thinking about buying a 2017 Grand Sport convertible, manual transmission (not many in stock!). I live in the upper Midwest so I typically put 5k - 7k miles/year on my fun cars; this would not be a DD. I plan on driving it 20 miles round trip to/from work once/week during the warmer months, in addition to a longer weekend cruise with a little spirited driving here and there when possible. I also plan on taking it to a 2 mile road course race track once/summer. I'm not a hardcore racer by any means - I just like to get the speed out of my system so I avoid tickets on the regular roads.

Welcome to the forum! Sounds like you know your sports cars and have done your research on the GS. I took museum delivery of a 2017 Admiral Blue M7 Grand Sport September 6 and spent two days in one on the track at Spring Mountain. Love the M7 GS!


Here are a series of questions on my mind - hoping the group can help out.


1) PRICE. I did a "custom build" at my local dealer to get an idea of price. It came in at ~$85k MSRP and the dealer said their standard discount is $5k for that price range. But I looked at Kerbeck's pricing on their GS inventory and it looks like they knock $9k - $10k off, before any negotiation takes place. And I noticed a post somewhere on the forum that noted they received 15% off MSRP. Thoughts on what I should expect to pay if the MSRP is ~$85k?

Now that the end of the year sales are over, dealerships will lighten up on their discounts a little. But it's still not "Corvette season" so you still can score a deal, even on an ordered unit. I'd suggest that you can pretty easily get 8-10% off, and then add to that any incentives that you qualify for.


2) WHERE TO PURCHASE. I always prefer to support local businesses when possible, but if there's a significant discount by purchasing at an out-of-state dealership, I have no issue with that, and I've done it before. Based on your experiences, are there are any dealers I should strongly consider? (Is such a question even allowed on this forum? If not, just disregard.) I travel quite a bit so purchasing anywhere in the continental U.S. is no problem. I'm not overly concerned with which dealer employs "nice people" - rather I'm looking for best deals and knowing that when I show up I'll get the same deal that I struck over the phone or online.

I live in SW Oklahoma and after my recent purchase experience with Mike Furman at Criswell Chevrolet in Maryland, I have no reason to ever order another new Corvette from any other salesman. He is always honest, up front, makes the purchase a fun experience, and gives very fair trade in deals even on sight unseen trades. He will offer you the best deal he can and will also make sure you get every incentive you qualify for. From start to finish, he keeps you updated on your order and his follow up after the sale is second to none. He's a Corvette enthusiast, has owned 18 Corvettes, and has sold more Corvettes in his 39 years as a Corvette salesman than any other salesman in the world. I'd recommend ordering a new GS, but you might check their inventory since he orders hundreds of Corvettes every year for dealership inventory.


3) TRADE. I need to trade in my 2014 911 but have never had to trade a car in via an out-of-state transaction. Have any of you done this? I'm wondering how the dealer values my vehicle in a way that ensures I don't drive it or transport it ~1,000 miles only to have them nitpick at the car in an effort to make the deal more economically appealing to them. The car is pretty flawless, but I know how many dealers operate. Also, to the extent that any of you have experience selling late model Porsche's, how likely is it that our local Porsche dealer would just buy it in order to resell it? I'll probably give them a call in the coming weeks.

Like I said above, check with Mike Furman to see what he could give you for it.


4) Z06. I have to admit the Z06 is very appealing for two main reasons: 1) the wide rear end - which I can get in the GS so the GS checks that box; and 2) the extra HP; the 3.8 or 3.9 0-60 time almost seems pedestrian these days (my 911 is close to that and it can feel slow until it hits 4500 RPM). Almost everything I've read says the extra HP is unnecessary or even scary on the street - true? I also have a 16 year old son at home. While he's very responsible - and has driven the 911 several times (always with Dad in the car!) - the idea that he might handle a 650 HP car scares me. I'm correct in sticking with the GS...right?

While on the track in a M7 GS at Spring Mountain, I was placed in the fastest group with two Z06 drivers. The only place they could pull away from me was on the straights, and my driving ability allowed me to catch them on the corners. I don't need the extra power and love the power of the GS as it is. That 650 HP can be dangerous in the wrong hands, as can the 460 HP for that matter. You can always supercharge later if you get the GS.


5) OPTIONS. Knowing my intended use, what major options or packages would you recommend? Sitting in the salesperson's office going through that custom build process was mind-boggling. Way too many choices. I'm not talking about whether to get a "satin" stripe or a "Jake" stripe; I'm talking about the major options or packages. The salesman tried talking me into an upgraded track package (Z07?) with Brembo brakes, maybe bigger rotors and special seats if I recall right. But for the 4 hours I'll spend on a track once/year, that all seems like overkill. I really don't care if I squeeze out an extra 5 mph or a few seconds on the track. I do care about my money and the value I get for it during 98% of my driving time on city streets.

My usage is similar to yours. I ordered mine with the 3LT interior and did not opt for the Z07 package. You're getting the Z06 base brake set up as it is, which should be fine for your once a year track use.


6) SIDE SKIRTS. I'm still investigating these side skirts (and does that front lip come with the side skirts?). I love the way they look, but I'm worried about how often they'll scrape on inclines like driveway curbs. I don't want to get them if I'm going to have to get them repainted in the shop every year or two. Your experience with these?

I've never had problems with side skirts getting damaged, except when ran over a curb that I forgot was there. The front of the car with a splitter on it is the more worrisome issue. I wouldn't drive a GS without the skirts because they do a lot to protect the side of the car from rock chips coming off the front tires.


7) EXTERIOR COLORS. Yes, I know this is a very subjective topic, but I'd appreciate opinions here. After looking at the picture thread it's clear there are so many good color combinations out there. Let me know your thoughts on any of the following (not really interested in other colors for various reasons):
- Admiral Blue with the red "hash mark" fender stripes, and the white stripe down the middle. You know, that sort of classic looking Grand Sport you see in some of Chevy's materials/websites. This is my leading candidate. My son though thinks it's a little cartoonish, or looks like a matchbox car. He thinks the white stripe is too big and bold.
- Black with red fender stripes, red hood/trunk stripe and red calipers. I think this looks completely bad a**, but...every black vehicle I own is a hassle to keep clean (and I like my fun cars to look immaculate; the older I get, the less I enjoy hand washing them every weekend!). My other concern is that it's hard to really see and appreciate the aggressive lines of the Vette when it's all black.
- Metallic grey with blue or red stripes. This grey color helps with the cleanliness, but grey is just so...grey. My 911 is grey and it just doesn't inspire me aesthetically.


8) HOOD & TRUNK STRIPE. Referencing the hood/trunk stripe being too big and bold, I'm wondering about the group's thoughts on doing custom racing stripes. Imagine putting that same big white stripe down the middle of the car, but then cutting out a couple inches of the middle of that long stripe, revealing Admiral Blue underneath. On the picture page there's a great picture of a guy's silver GS with black racing stripes exactly like I'm talking about. I'm sure I can take it to a body shop to get it done, but I'm wondering if that would impact the resale value of the car if it looks too "custom". I suppose I could always have the stripes removed if necessary.


Thanks again for your help everyone.



First, I'm with you on the Admiral Blue. The GS is beautiful in AB! And unless you're buying it for your son, he'll just have to get over it.

I'm going custom painted stripes on my GS, but mine is going to be highly customized throughout. I'm not worried about resale because I plan to keep mine for a long time. But if it's not too much outside of the box, I don't think your idea would hurt resale at all. Best wishes!

Cliff8928

I just practically went "all out" on my GS which I will be picking up from the NCM on 1/9. I opted for the 3LT which makes more of a difference with different interior colors than black. I also opted for the Z07 package, not so much for the brakes but the increased handling. Stiffer spring rates and less unsprung weight.

I also have the heritage package and center GS stripe. (Watkins Glen Grey Metallic with Carbon Flash stripes, very subdued), All the other carbon flash or carbon fiber options as well.

You can't go wrong with the red white and blue classic grand sport color scheme, I would think that should be good for resale too.

I purchased from a local dealer 20 miles away. It took a couple tries before I got one who would work with me, that was very confusing.

Can't really help you with trade-in advice, other than I sold my '04 C5 to Carmax who gave me significantly more than my local dealer would've.

JerryU

Just a note on trade. I bought my C6 from Kerbeck-great folks to deal with. However large dealers with deep discounts are probably just going to wholesale your trade! Suggest you look at selling on your own. I used AutoTrader and sold my C6 before I ordered my C7! Sold it in one day (very unusual compared to the time it took to sell my '88 and '93 Vettes.)

The good prices from large Internet dealers are attractive but don't get disappointed when they are not excited about your trade! Frankly local dealers may sound like they want your trade (and if in very good condition and they sell used sports cars, they might) but usually they won't come close to discounting the new car like those you see on the Net.

However get the Internet price (most are published) and bring a copy of their ad to your local dealer and see what they will offer. Plug in your trade into Kelly Bluebook, etc website and get an estimate of what it's worth before hand.

ersatz928

On an ordered car, you should be able to get 11% off the total MSRP. On an in-stock Grand Sport, you should be able to get 15% off MSRP (but the % off includes the $2000 Corvette Loyalty rebate, which you won't get)

I would Private Sale the 911. It really makes no sense to trade a car, the dealership wants to make some money and will offer you 10% to 20% less than what you could get with a Private Sale.

Concerning Options, first decide manual or automatic trans, then the overall trim level (1LT, 2LT, 3LT), which basically add "toys" and somewhat nicer interior colors/trim. If you can do without some of the toys, the 1LT package is plenty well equipped. Doesn't sound like you need the Z07 performance package or the Competition Sport Seats ($2000) if you won't track the car a lot, it is crazy expensive and will be even more expensive when new tires are needed. (the Z07 Cup-2 tires wear out even faster than the standard Pilot Super Sports, which are about $1700 for all four)

yeller z06

I also had a 2014 911S (coupe) and I couldn't pay anyone to buy that thing from me, so I just traded it. People just don't want to buy an expensive car from an individual much these days - some think (wrongly IMHO) that they get more "protection" from a dealer. I'd suggest that you go ahead and wholesale back to your dealer - they'll likely give you more for it than Carmax and it's a lot less hassle than selling it yourself.

I've bought two Corvettes from MacMulkin in NH. No issues, great guys to deal with and an excellent price. I too prefer to support local business and gave them an opportunity to "earn my business" but they couldn't come close to their price, plus they (the local guys) like to screw me out of $500-600 for "doc fees".

I prefer to buy low option cars because I tend to flip them rather soon, and the fewer the options, the better you do (percentage-wise) at trade-in time.

I have a base 1LT and the power that this thing has *is* scary. You don't need the Z06. Heck, you don't need the GS, really, but I see the attraction for it.

No worries letting your responsible son drive with you in the car, but there's no way I'd let anyone under 30 drive it without me in there.

Gen2

Terrific, thanks for the thoughts everyone. I may call up my local Porsche dealer and see what they'll offer for the car.

Cliff8928

The only plus side to trading is if you have tax advantages which make up the difference in value of selling it elsewhere. It's not like that in every state, but for me it's 7%.

Mike Furman@Criswell

PM sent.

Mike Furman

Criswell Chevrolet

Gaithersburg, MD

301-212-4420 desk direct

www.CorvetteFurman.com

nerz

Would it be cost efficient to super charge a grand sport in order to catch up with the z06? Or would you be better off with just getting a z06 in the first place?

I've been trying to figure out the actual differences between the two but have been having a hard time quantifying the actual parts and their value.

Hopper12

Last but not least: welcome to the forum!! You're going to enjoy your C7!!

CP

^^^^^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^^^

nikic6

I ordered mine from MacMulkin and they delivered it to a local dealership.

iclick

I'm going through the same compromises and struggles you are, like I have twice before in the past three years, and it never gets any easier. Since I always get caught up in the trade-in blues a local purchase is almost a necessity. The larger dealers give a nice discount, but although sales tax is 10% in my area a trade-in will decrease the new-vehicle purchase price subject to the tax. If I get $45k for my trade and the new car costs $65k I pay "only" $2k in sales tax--but if I don't have a trade-in I pay the full $6.5k. Thus if I don't trade I'm reducing my out-of-state-dealer discount by $6.5k, which makes a local deal much more promising.

Compounding the problem is that the big dealers traditionally don't like to fool with trades, or at least this is the case with the dealers I've spoken to. They may say they'll take trades but won't even give you an estimate until you show it to them, and if you drive 1000 miles to make a deal you are setting yourself up for a big letdown when they low-ball your trade. Based on what I read here and elsewhere that's exactly what will happen.

You'll need to put the numbers to a calculator and do some searching for current used-car values. In my case the difference between a good trade and selling the car outright is not enough to make the sales tax numbers work in my favor.

NikiC6 mentioned the courtesy delivery to a local dealer, but be advised that will come with about $500-600 in additional fees paid to the dealer who preps the car. The good news is that you pay the same $1k destination charge and this may make more sense than trucking the car to you, which will cost 2-3X that amount, or flying to New England and driving the car back.

I would never consider a Z06, as the 460hp I have now is more than I can use 99% of the time on the street. You may live in an area that will accommodate a more liberal right foot, but I don't and must drive 15 miles just to get into an area that will offer even brief bursts of acceleration, much less wringing the car out through the gears. For me the standard LT1 is more than enough. but as with everything YMMV.

I would think so. The Z07 gives you a harder ride and soft tires that wear quickly and cost a fortune, so for one track experience per year I would go with the stock GS setup--unless, of course, you're obsessed with winning and want every trump card to achieve that goal. That said, the Z07 can do 1.2g on the skidpad, about .15g higher than stock, either one being much more than most of us can use on the street.

jagamajajaran

Mike Furman will make you a trade offer over without you having to take your trade to him.

ea327

Welcome! If you go with a convertible, you won't be able to track it without a roll bar.

ForbiddenRooster

I had my 911 (991) appraised at a few dealers as a trade as well as Carmax. At the end of the day I sold it to a local Porsche dealer for 15% more than any other offer I had. The dealer I bought my vette from had the lowest trade in offer by far.

N2TU

Yes...me too and they (MacMulkin) were fantastic to deal with...sold my C6 on the C6 forum page....

Gen2

At the track I visit their rule is that if your head doesn't rise above the imaginary line drawn between the top of the windshield and the rear of the car, you can race. I haven't drawn such a line on the C7 convertible, but I would assume my head wouldn't rise above such a line (I'm 5' 11"). Even if it did, it wouldn't be the end of the world. I really enjoy a convertible car in the summer months.

ea327

What track is that?