Foosh

You don't seem to know anything about this, yet you keep posting nonsense.

Regardless of who owns them, all refineries sell to virtually all brands. The vast majority of refinery-produced fuel travels via pipeline to storage terminals , and even the products of multiple refineries are often mixed in the pipeline. It's at the local storage terminals, where fuel for the retail outlets of all brands is picked up by tankers. That's where the additive packages that are exclusive to Shell, BP, Exxon/Mobil, etc. are mixed in as gasoline is loaded on the tanker. It is all the same BEFORE it goes in the tanker.

Some of the large, well-known brands don't even own refineries any more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrol..._United_States

dashotgun

why are arguing with him it is a waste of time

hangman

This is correct. Base fuel is base fuel. There is no difference between base fuels with the same octane rating. As a matter of fact, different oil and gas companies trade base fuel between each other and then adds their own additives to make it their branded fuel. It is much more cost effective than having to build and operate a refinery through the globe. For example, Exxon may not have any refineries in California. So instead of having to transport fuel from their refineries in other states, their tankers actually pull into a Shell or any other refinery depot and load up with the base fuel. At each depot, there are drop stations that fills the tanker with the correct additives for the respective brands. In this case, it would fill the tanker with Exxon's additives to make it "Exxon" gas. These depots serve all brands, and contain additives for all brands to make them brand specific. They also serve non branded retailers as well, in such event they do not add the additives and hence it would just be base fuel. They also serve non branded fuel for top tier retailers as well such as Costco who sells unbranded top tier gas. What additives get filled in Costco's tankers depends on the contract pickup that costco has made with the additive providers. It could be top tier gas from any of the top tier brands, as Costco does not have their own additives.

As as you can see, from a cost perspective, this saves the oil and gas companies billions since they do not have to build, maintain and run their own refineries in every part of the world, they just trade base fuels with other company's refineries.

JoesC5

I'm not going to look up every oil company, but here is Phillips 66, Valero and Conoco/Phillips refineries. I buy all my gas locally at Phipps 66 and Conoco retailers. The Ponca City refinery isn't that far from me, so there is a chance that my gas comes from Conoco/Phillip's Ponca City refinery(but no guarantee of that, of course).

Conoco/Phillips...

Asia....
Melaka Refinery

Europe.....
Humber refinery
Miro Karlsuhe refinery
Whitegate refinery

Middle East....
Yanbu refinery

USA....
Alliance refinery
Bayway Linden refinery
Billings Phillips 66 refinery
Borger refinery
Ferndale refinery
Lake Charles Phillips 66 refinery
Los Angeles refinery
Ponca City refinery
San Francisco refinery
Sweeny refinery
Wood River refinery

And Valero's refineries....

Ardmore
Benicia
Bill Greehey
Houston
Jean Gaulin
McKee
Memphis
Meraux
Pembroke
Port Arthur
St Charles
Texas City
Three Rivers
Wilmington

And EXXON refineries...

Asia...
Sri Racha refinery
EXXON Singapore refinery
Esso Port Dickson refinery

Japan....
Kauasaki refinery
TG Sakai refinery

Australasia....
Adelaide refinery
Altona refinery
The New Zealand Refinery Company

Europe....
Botlek refinery
ESSO Argusta refinery
EXXON Mobil Antwerp refinery
Fawley Southampton refinery
Fos Sur Mer
Miro Karlsruhe refinery
Port Jerome refinery
Sarpom Trecade Novara refinery
Slagen refinery

Middle East....
Yanbu JV refinery

USA....
baton Rouge refinery
Baytown refinery
Beaumont refinery
Chalmette refinery
EXXON Billings
Joliet refinery
Torrance refinery

Canada....
Dartsmouth refinery
EXXON Sarnia refinery
Nanticoke refinery
Strathcona refinery

South & Central America....
Cuesta del Ploma Managua refinery
Fort de France refinery
Refireria Petrokera de Acajutla refinery

Looks like the "Big Boys" are still "Big Boys". Out of the 46 "Big Boys" in the world(by revenue), EXXON Mobil is rated #5, Royal Dutch Shell is rated #6, BP us rated #8, Valero Energy is rated #12, Chevron is rated #14, Marathon is rated #21, and Conoco Phillips is rated #30. All of those six are Top Tier companies.

B-Myster

So basically you have no actual knowledge on the subject just wild speculation and conspiracy theories. Stay in your lane dude.

2fastnow

If you would read for your self they are secondary refinery's for different products like Zmax, or STP, cleaning fluids, plastics refinery, synthetic fabrics, they all get there raw chemicals from the major refinery's then do ever more to it to get what they are selling. Plus they sell basic gasoline with other business names.
I think your weed is cut with nasty...time to change dealers...perhaps a lower 'tier' dealer would do.

Red Mist Rulz

LOL. 2fastnow is a veritable font of misinformation and fantasy. Almost everything he's posted is factually incorrect.

Please post what a link to what you have "read" that proves, or even provides documentation, that Top Tier isn't real, or doesn't provide any actual benefits. I wait with bated breath.

rrsperry

That is simply wrong. (At least in Maryland)

The Colonial pipeline carries regular and premium. The ethanol is in the bulk product, and not added at the terminal. The only thing added at all he terminal, is the final additive product.

rrsperry

And, that pipeline also sends diesel, kerosene, and #2 fuel oil. Yes only one pipe...lol

Jeffthunbird

I would. I either use 93 or the occasion 91 e0 fill-up. Both work well. At Fall lay-up, I make sure e0 is in the tank. BTW, that was over 5 months this year. First drive was today. We still have snow hanging around!

F4Gary

No need to use Kroger 93 as Costco 93 is cheaper and is Top Tier. I only use Top Tier unless not available.

2fast sounds like one of those flat earth guys.

LDB

This doesn’t matter much to most forum readers, but in fact, E10 is not shipped in major pipelines like Colonial. There are too many potential problems with water and corrosion. The refineries produce what’s called BOB (blendstock for oxygenate blending), which does not yet contain ethanol. Its properties are such that when the ethanol is added at the terminal, it will have the correct properties for E10. You cannot simply add ethanol to ethanol-free gas because the resulting vapor pressure would be way too high. Similarly, you cannot make ethanol free gas by not adding ethanol to the BOB because its vapor pressure would be way too low.

So let’s simplify and say a refinery wants to make 4 grades of gas: 87 and 93 octane, with and without ethanol. The approximate properties of the 4 blends that it makes for the pipeline would then be 87 and 93 octane finished gas with vapor pressure about 7, and 85 and 91 octane BOB’s with vapor pressure around 5, which after 10% ethanol is added at the terminal, will make 87 and 93 octane E10 with vapor pressure around 7. Things actually get much messier than that, as there are various types of BOB’s, such as RBOB for areas requiring reformulated gas, CARBOB for areas requiring California spec gas, and different flavors of BOB depending on how much ethanol is to be added, summer/winter vapor pressure spec, etc.

Going back to rrsperry’s comment about Maryland and Colonial, I don’t know the exact setup of terminals and local pipelines in Maryland, so I can’t rule out the possibility that ethanol has been added locally at some point in between main Colonial and an individual terminal in Maryland that he is familiar with. Many people are working to develop procedures and materials to allow transport of fuels with ethanol in pipelines, and some of those efforts may have led to doing that on short segments of local lines. I suppose I can’t even categorically rule out the possibility that main lines have started shipping E10 since I retired. But that would be really big news in the industry, so I did a quick, 10 minute internet search and couldn’t find any indication of such big news.

Monkey D. Luffy

LDB

The quote with which you are agreeing was from very early in the thread. Since then, it has been explained multiple times that the additives are added to the delivery truck separately from the base gas. So it is entirely possible, and in fact happens reasonably often, that a top tier truck gets the very same base gas from the very same spigot as a non-top-tier truck, but the former will get top tier additives while the latter gets minimum standard EPA additives. If you don’t think the added engine cleanliness from top tier is worth the extra price, fine, that’s your business. But don’t keep using the “all from the same pipe” argument to imply that top tier is meaningless. It just makes you look dumb.

JoesC5

Maryland is not the center of the universe. There are pipelines all over the US and what I posted is 100% correct.

Ethanol is not added at the refinery and is not shipped via a pipeline, Ethanol is added at the local terminal, when the gas is loaded into a local tanker to be delivered to the retailer.

From 2013...

"Magellan says pipeline on track to shift to sub-octane by September 15

Houston (Platts)--19 Jul 2013 232 pm EDT/1832 GMT


Magellan Midstream Partners is on track to convert its pipeline system in the Midwest to 84 sub-octane by September 15, a company spokesman said Friday"

"The introduction of a sub-octane or a CBOB-type blendstock reflects the growing adoption of ethanol in the overall US gasoline pool.

The expansion of ethanol terminals with easy access to the pipeline means shippers will be able to add ethanol to V grade to make it ready for retail use.

An 84-octane blendstock would require ethanol added at 10% volume to achieve a final rating of 87 octane."

http://www.platts.com/latest-news/oi...o-sub-21304089

As you can plainly read, the base stock that is shipped by pipeline is 84 octane(some pipeline companies ship 85 octane base stock) and the addition of 10% ethanol at the local terminal raises the octane to 87, which is what is pumped into your car at your local retailer.

For premium gas, say 91 octane at the pump, the base stock that is shipped by pipeline is 89 octane and the addition of 10% ethanol raises the octane to 91.

for ethanol free gasoline the base stock ethanol rating is the same octane rating that is at your local retailer(ie; 87 octane base stock for 87 octane at the pump for regular grade, and 91 octane base stock for 91 octane at the pump, and 93 octane base stock for 93 octane at the pump).

As you an PLAINLY see, there are more than two grades of gasoline that is shipped by pipelines across the USA(again, Maryland is not the center of the universe and what happens in Maryland is not what happens in ALL the other 49 states). Most states have retailers that sell ethanol free gasoline(nearly 12,000 retailers) along with retailers that sell E10 gasoline, thus the base stock that is shipped via pipeline to those states have to carry more than "regular" and "premium" base stock gasoline. The base stock that will be sold as E10 at the retailer is different from the base stack that will be sold as pure-gas(ethanol free) at the retailer.

You should rear this for all the different gasolines that colonial Pipeline ships...

http://www.colpipe.com/docs/default-...ifications.pdf

dndrsn

So what do you do?

Drive 10 extra miles for Top Tier gas, drive back home and park it in the garage.

Pull it out, wash it, back it back in and stare at it.

Put at least 1500 mi. a year on it.

Maybe Top Tier gas needs Sta-bil in it as well.

RVC

I fill my **** up with Crown Royal Vanilla....so there.

JoesC5

I don't know about you, but there are two Top Tier retailers located within one mile of my house and they are located on the street I drive on to go to town. In all four directions from my house, I drive right by a Top Tier retailer. There are no shortage of Top Tier retailers in Springfield, MO. Whenever I'm on a trip, I have zero problems finding Top Tier retailers without having to make a special out of the way detour to find one.

If you are having problems finding a Top Tier retailer near you, then you probably live out in the sticks. When ever I drive any one of my four cars(three being Corvettes), I stop at my local Top Tier retailer(that sells ethanol free gasoline) on the way back home, thus when I park my cars in my garage, they are full of Top Tier gasoline(without that damn ethanol in it). I make no special 10 mile trips just to get Top Tier gasoline before parking my cars in my garage.

2fastnow

There is no regulations on how much 'additives' are being added. EPA doesn't regulate that. For all we know they're putting a quart of 'special sauce' per million gallons.
I've read so many 'facts' about synthetic oils lasting a million miles with no signs of wear on diesel motors to straight e85 fuel for 150,000 miles etc with not even a worn gasket.
It would cost trillions to test the B. S. claims coming out per hour on products these days. It's sickening
And i'm not going to believe that the fuel they sell is so special either. Oil companies cut the biggest checks to government re elections committee's for me to trust any of it.

JoesC5

You are wrong. The EPA does regulate the minimum amount of additives in gasoline. The Top Tier companies(like Marathon) add more additives above what the EPA calls for.

http://www.marathonpetroleum.com/bra...and_Gasolines/

"Deposits in engines can reduce fuel economy. Compared to gasolines using only the minimum EPA required dose of detergent additives, Marathon gasolines with STP additives can increase fuel efficiency by improving the cleanliness of an engine’s intake valves."

And this footnote...

"1Compared to gasolines containing the lowest additive concentration required by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, pursuant to 40 CFR Part 80 and Section 211 (1) of the Clean Air Act.'

And.........

"Federal Gasoline Regulations
The Clean Air Act requires EPA to regulate fuels and fuel additives for use in motor vehicle, motor vehicle engine, or nonroad engine or nonroad vehicle if such fuel, fuel additive or any emission products causes or contributes to air or water pollution that may endanger the public health or welfare. EPA must also address emission products of such fuel or fuel additives that may impair any emission control devices used on vehicles or engines to reduce harmful emissions.
Gasoline regulations are under 40 CFR Part 80 (“Regulation of Fuels and Fuel Additives”): subparts A (general provisions, applying to all 40 CFR Part 890 fuels programs), B (controls and prohibitions), C (oxygenated gasoline), D & E (reformulated gasoline), G (detergent gasoline program), H & O (gasoline sulfur) and J & L (gasoline toxics)."

https://www.epa.gov/gasoline-standar...ne-regulations