New Corvette Sales Drop a Daunting 12 Percent
05-21-2017, 09:16 PM
#121
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Finalist 2020 C7 of the Year -- Unmodified
05-22-2017, 12:06 AM
#122
Le Mans Master
No, they knew it was the FE2 (Mag Ride Non Z51) they both called up the list price and options by the VIN. The difference was one dealer gave me a decent price for the car, the other wanted to steal it! BTW....they already sold my trade, I am sure for a fair profit! Still amazes me how there could be a $5500 difference in trade value!
Last edited by Supersonic 427; 05-22-2017 at 12:24 AM.
05-22-2017, 08:31 AM
#123
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St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15- '16-'17-‘18-‘19-'20-'21
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Greed plain and simple
05-22-2017, 08:35 AM
#124
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No, they knew it was the FE2 (Mag Ride Non Z51) they both called up the list price and options by the VIN. The difference was one dealer gave me a decent price for the car, the other wanted to steal it! BTW....they already sold my trade, I am sure for a fair profit! Still amazes me how there could be a $5500 difference in trade value!
CRAZY MONEY!!!
05-22-2017, 08:58 AM
#125
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St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15- '16-'17-‘18-‘19-'20-'21
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Funny how a smaller dealer had the best deal
05-22-2017, 08:02 PM
#127
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St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15- '16-'17-‘18-‘19-'20-'21
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I still can't believe so many of us have posted to this thread. It's not like it was unexpected. Heck, the C6 did the same thing.
05-27-2017, 09:16 PM
#128
I was correct in stating that Saturn started out with one of it's "selling" points being a "no haggle" brand. That was one of their major "advertising" claims.
I was correct when I stated that Saturn dropped the "no haggle" crap and started selling at discounts off MSRP.
Incorrect. Certain retailers (dealers) violated the policy from day 1 since the mfg can't dictate what price a dealer sells the car for... considered price fixing. It was never officially dropped the company.
Absolutely nothing "wrong" with my post.
Why did they drop the "no haggle" if it was working for them? What did the "no haggle" pricing and the later dropping it, have to do with Saturn's' range of product offerings.
See above... you're wrong! It was impossible to enforce nationally because of price fixing concerns. When some dealers start struggling they resort to tactics which hurts the overall brand.
I seem to remember Saturn having a S-Series compact sedan, coupe, sedan, and station wagon. A L-series mid-size sedan and station wagon. The Vue, a compact crossover. The Ion, a compact sedan and quad coupe. The Relay, a minivan. The Sky, a sports car. The EV1, an electric car. The Outlook, a full size crossover. The Aura, a mid-size sedan and the Astra, a compact 3 and 5 door hatchback.
You didn't pay attention to my previous post... going from 1990 to 1999 with no new product design of your existing "S" series line was the kiss of death. The "L" series was the first new offering and it started production in May 1999.
Other than not having a pickup truck in their lineup, I would say they had about every segment covered.
When GM was on their knees in 2008, they decided to sell off the Saturn brand. That fell through, so they closed up shop. A sales and marketing failure.
Not correct. The mission was never to have a p/u as that was what Chevrolet was for... Saturn was a subsidiary of GM, remember. Saturn's business plan was to offfer a smaller car that could compete with the Japanese imports on quality, and price. Saturn sold its millionth vehicle in 1995--pretty amazing for a new start-up conquest brand. Name me another car brand that sold a million units within its first 5 years? And, by the way, Saturn hit that milestone with just one car line, "S" series (coupe, sedans and wagon).
People might say they want "no haggle" purchasing, but over the past 100 years, they never demanded it enough for the 700+, or so, automobile manufacturers to offer it, except for the Saturn brand, which dropped the idea to go with "haggle" pricing to try and stay afloat towards the end.
I was correct when I stated that Saturn dropped the "no haggle" crap and started selling at discounts off MSRP.
Incorrect. Certain retailers (dealers) violated the policy from day 1 since the mfg can't dictate what price a dealer sells the car for... considered price fixing. It was never officially dropped the company.
Absolutely nothing "wrong" with my post.
Why did they drop the "no haggle" if it was working for them? What did the "no haggle" pricing and the later dropping it, have to do with Saturn's' range of product offerings.
See above... you're wrong! It was impossible to enforce nationally because of price fixing concerns. When some dealers start struggling they resort to tactics which hurts the overall brand.
I seem to remember Saturn having a S-Series compact sedan, coupe, sedan, and station wagon. A L-series mid-size sedan and station wagon. The Vue, a compact crossover. The Ion, a compact sedan and quad coupe. The Relay, a minivan. The Sky, a sports car. The EV1, an electric car. The Outlook, a full size crossover. The Aura, a mid-size sedan and the Astra, a compact 3 and 5 door hatchback.
You didn't pay attention to my previous post... going from 1990 to 1999 with no new product design of your existing "S" series line was the kiss of death. The "L" series was the first new offering and it started production in May 1999.
Other than not having a pickup truck in their lineup, I would say they had about every segment covered.
When GM was on their knees in 2008, they decided to sell off the Saturn brand. That fell through, so they closed up shop. A sales and marketing failure.
Not correct. The mission was never to have a p/u as that was what Chevrolet was for... Saturn was a subsidiary of GM, remember. Saturn's business plan was to offfer a smaller car that could compete with the Japanese imports on quality, and price. Saturn sold its millionth vehicle in 1995--pretty amazing for a new start-up conquest brand. Name me another car brand that sold a million units within its first 5 years? And, by the way, Saturn hit that milestone with just one car line, "S" series (coupe, sedans and wagon).
People might say they want "no haggle" purchasing, but over the past 100 years, they never demanded it enough for the 700+, or so, automobile manufacturers to offer it, except for the Saturn brand, which dropped the idea to go with "haggle" pricing to try and stay afloat towards the end.
Saturn wasn't perfect by any stretch, but it was wayyyyy ahead of its time in the industry, and Lexus has made NHNH work!
His point was that the "no haggle" pricing DID work and would have CONTINUED to work had GM actually treated Saturn as a brand, with timely NEW product, etc (the models you mentioned didn't appear until the 2000's, Saturn basically made do with the original lineup for 10 years). They didn't and the brand stagnated (shocker) and at that point, the "no haggle" was out the door and GM started treating Saturn like every other brand. You are correct that the "no haggle" model failed, but the point is that it didn't fail because IT (no haggle) is flawed, it failed because GM failed to keep the pipeline full of new and interesting product.
There will always be "haggling" on a new or used car purchase if a trade is involved. I fixed price is still not going to be a remedy when it comes to trading your car. I just purchased a GS 3 weeks ago at the GM Employee discount price. Price was the same at both dealerships on a clean deal, but the trade difference was a whopping $5500!!!!
Last edited by Steve Garrett; 05-28-2017 at 08:29 PM. Reason: Merged Posts-please use the Multi-Quote button (the middle icon) in the lower right hand corner of each post to make your responses look like this!
05-27-2017, 10:03 PM
#129
Race Director
05-27-2017, 10:53 PM
#130
Yep.
Porsche 911 sales were down 26% YOY for March and 8% for April. They have been consistently down
Porsche Cayman sales are down 52% YOY for April, and 51% for March!
This isn't just a Corvette problem. When I said the entire US market was down 5% year over year, I think what is keeping that number from being even higher is SUV sales, which have been increasing. Cars are in the toilet as buyers continue to move into SUV's.
Example Porsche Macan sales are way up for 2017. In the last two months alone sales are up near 50%. Clearly people who may have been in the market for a 911 or Cayman are buying Macan's instead.
Porsche 911 sales were down 26% YOY for March and 8% for April. They have been consistently down
Porsche Cayman sales are down 52% YOY for April, and 51% for March!
This isn't just a Corvette problem. When I said the entire US market was down 5% year over year, I think what is keeping that number from being even higher is SUV sales, which have been increasing. Cars are in the toilet as buyers continue to move into SUV's.
Example Porsche Macan sales are way up for 2017. In the last two months alone sales are up near 50%. Clearly people who may have been in the market for a 911 or Cayman are buying Macan's instead.
05-28-2017, 11:44 AM
#131
Le Mans Master
SUV's & Crossovers are today what Station wagons were in the 60's. Hate to say it but they are practical especially if you have a family. You only need that one time you can't fit whatever in your trunk! But what hurts sport car sales is the increasing number of 4 door sedans that are almost as quick and handle as well. 
But what hurts sport car sales is the increasing number of 4 door sedans that are almost as quick and handle as well.
05-28-2017, 04:17 PM
#132
Team Owner
It was NEVER officially dropped... Saturn Corp could only SUGGEST the MSRP and selling arrangement, which meant some of the not so great retailers (dealers) resorted to their old ways. The reason that the car business is so behind the times is because it has one of the strongest lobby groups in the country. No ), but it requires dealers tohassle/No haggle works great (Lexus is great example after all these years) sell the car instead of the payment, like typical car dogs.
Saturn wasn't perfect by any stretch, but it was wayyyyy ahead of its time in the industry, and Lexus has made NHNH work!
Saturn wasn't perfect by any stretch, but it was wayyyyy ahead of its time in the industry, and Lexus has made NHNH work!
Lexus has been in business for 28 years. One year ago, May, 2016, they started their Lexus Plus trial to see if no haggle pricing would work. They started out with 11 dealerships(out of 237 US dealerships) and now, one year later, they have 13 dealerships selling Lexus automobiles with their no haggle pricing. Of the original 11 dealers, one started selling no haggle in mid May, 2016 and the remaining 10 started in mid July, 2016.
That's not what I call a roaring success story, and they have not had haggle free pricing "all these years" as you threw up against the wall trying to make a point that is a total falsehood.
If it is the wave of the future, then why are the remaining 224 Lexus dealerships not selling at haggle free pricing. Maybe because the competition will clean their clock if they try it.
Don't start claiming that haggle free pricing is the bomb because Lexus is a roaring success. They haven't been in it long enough to even get a clue as to how it's going to work out for them, and they know more about how it's working out for them than you do. If it's so successful after the FIRST year then why aren't the other 224 dealerships signing into Lexus's volunteer program of selling their cars with haggle free pricing?
EDIT: I just checked and there are now only 10 dealers with the Lexus Plus no haggle pricing. That's fewer than they started out with a year ago.
Greenwood, CO
Indianapolis, IN
Portland, ME
Omaha, NE
Lincoln, NE
Pittsburg, PA
Allentown, PA
Wexford, PA
Bellevue, WA
Appleton, WI
PS- my local Lexus dealership is owned by Warren Buffet. I'm pretty sure that if he believed that he could sell more cars and/or make more money with haggle free pricing(Lexus Plus) then he would have already signed up for it, but he hasn't. After all, he does know a thing or two about making money.
His point was that the "no haggle" pricing DID work and would have CONTINUED to work had GM actually treated Saturn as a brand, with timely NEW product, etc (the models you mentioned didn't appear until the 2000's, Saturn basically made do with the original lineup for 10 years). They didn't and the brand stagnated (shocker) and at that point, the "no haggle" was out the door and GM started treating Saturn like every other brand. You are correct that the "no haggle" model failed, but the point is that it didn't fail because IT (no haggle) is flawed, it failed because GM failed to keep the pipeline full of new and interesting product.
In a last ditch effort to stay alive, Saturn did in fact ditch their no haggle pricing. If the no haggle pricing was so successful, then why did they believe that dumping it would reverse their decline?
Saturn was hoping it would draw customers into their dealers if the customers thought they could get a better deal(through haggling) then at a competing GM dealer selling another GM brand, that was the same product as Saturn was selling.
Maybe if they had dumped the no haggle pricing earlier, it might have saved them. The no haggle pricing sure didn't save them.
Last edited by Steve Garrett; 05-28-2017 at 08:29 PM. Reason: Merged Posts-please use the Multi-Quote button (the middle icon) in the lower right hand corner of each post to make your responses look like this!
05-29-2017, 08:40 AM
#133
Team Owner
Extremely interesting article about Saturn....
http://www.autonews.com/article/2015...-but-who-knew?
http://www.autonews.com/article/2015...-but-who-knew?
05-29-2017, 09:56 AM
#134
Pro
When the C7 first came out the car magazines and the most watched auto websites did road tests on them. In every one of them the tested vehicle was loaded to the gills with options. The prices were usually over 80K. When the C7 ZO6 came out there was another round of road tests. Again Chevy provided the testers with loaded vehicles. This time with prices over 100K. The first year of the C7 many dealers asked for and got more than MSRP. Most of what people know about the C7 was derived from reading and watching those early model road tests. The result is that there is now the impression that C7s are very expensive. When I have talked to people who ask about my GS they all seem to think that it is a 100K car. They are very surprised when I tell them it had a 86K MSRP and I got it for 74K. They are amazed when I tell them they can go on the internet and find a new C7 for less than 50K. I think that the pervasive perception of high prices is now keeping many potential customers from even considering buying one.
05-29-2017, 10:26 PM
#135
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St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15- '16-'17-‘18-‘19-'20-'21
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Along with the fact that many of the dealers are still trying to sell them for the same kind of money as when they first came out.
05-30-2017, 01:17 AM
#136
Le Mans Master
Porsche thought people wouldn't care, since the new ones were faster. Wrong! They should have worked over their flat sixes for better fuel economy.If Chevy puts a V6 in the Corvette, they will find out the same thing. Cylinder count and engine sound are an important part of car branding.
Michael
05-30-2017, 02:31 AM
#137
Le Mans Master
I was fairly surprised Porsche owners cared about a turbo 4 vs NA 6.
05-30-2017, 05:51 AM
#138
If Chevy puts a V6 in the Corvette, they will find out the same thing. Cylinder count and engine sound are an important part of car branding.
05-30-2017, 10:00 AM
#139
Team Owner
If I'm spending MY money, I would buy the NSX.
If I'm spending YOUR money, I would buy the GT.
