A8 Transmission failure tracking
#482
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Nov 2015
Location: Lake Havasu City Arizona
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#483
#484
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
GM will never say that. Nor will Range. But from what folks on these forums know at this point in time there is no evidence to say the Range device voids any warranty. The way the Range device works is it blocks signaling, it is not writing any programming to a module. So in theory it should leave no evidence that it was ever in place. When you do a tune, it overwrites programming and increments a counter which is definitely noticeable.
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GTRSOLO (02-26-2018)
#485
GM will never say that. Nor will Range. But from what folks on these forums know at this point in time there is no evidence to say the Range device voids any warranty. The way the Range device works is it blocks signaling, it is not writing any programming to a module. So in theory it should leave no evidence that it was ever in place. When you do a tune, it overwrites programming and increments a counter which is definitely noticeable.
I remember when I bought my BMWs there was a sticker in the car that said any aftermarket electronic devices would void warranty.
Last edited by KCV; 02-26-2018 at 11:14 AM.
#486
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
No one here, that I've seen (and I've followed pretty close) has ever had a claim denied because of a Range. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened of course. Most people say, to be safe, that they pull the device out whenever they go to the dealer.
#487
I might be interested in getting a Range but I certainly do not want to do anything to risk my warranty. Color me cautious when it comes to cars these days with all the fragile electronics.
#488
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
I'm pretty cautious with this stuff too, would never tune my car under warranty or do anything I thought would put that at risk. I have an extended warranty as well. But I did put a Range in, I've done a bunch of reading and from what I can tell it seems safe. But do your own research and take whatever risk you feel comfortable with. I was thinking it it had a chance at helping with the transmission issues it was worth the minimal risk. I also don't have my car for the gas mileage, but it still does pretty darn good with it in place.
#489
I'm pretty cautious with this stuff too, would never tune my car under warranty or do anything I thought would put that at risk. I have an extended warranty as well. But I did put a Range in, I've done a bunch of reading and from what I can tell it seems safe. But do your own research and take whatever risk you feel comfortable with. I was thinking it it had a chance at helping with the transmission issues it was worth the minimal risk. I also don't have my car for the gas mileage, but it still does pretty darn good with it in place.
It seems to me that AFM, where half the cylinders are deactivated, causes unnecessary and excessive wear on certain parts. I’ve read that it can increase oil consumption. AFM is quite seamless but I would prefer more user control where it would go into V4 mode only when cruising on the highway or when I want it to. I wish that on auto transmissions that AFM was only active in Eco Mode like it is on manual transmission equipped cars.
I know I can use manual mode and shift with the paddles to keep it in V8 mode but I find paddle shifting to be silly and unfullfilling.
#490
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Agreed,I don't paddle shift a lot. BUt I do use it, and probably use it more than I used to since I've come back from Spring Mountain.
But I also use performance shift mode a lot as well. I don't think people know about that as much, but the transmission will adapt and you can force the performance mode with a quick blip of the throttle. I tend to use that more than I do paddle shifting, if I know I want to pass someone or get aggressive I just give it a quick blip and it forces that (pops up on the DIC) and it is very responsive. It can shift way faster than I can with the paddles.
But I also use performance shift mode a lot as well. I don't think people know about that as much, but the transmission will adapt and you can force the performance mode with a quick blip of the throttle. I tend to use that more than I do paddle shifting, if I know I want to pass someone or get aggressive I just give it a quick blip and it forces that (pops up on the DIC) and it is very responsive. It can shift way faster than I can with the paddles.
#491
Le Mans Master
I wonder if anyone told the dealer they had been using a Range. Probably not intentionally.
I might be interested in getting a Range but I certainly do not want to do anything to risk my warranty. Color me cautious when it comes to cars these days with all the fragile electronics.
As long as you don’t leave it pulled in AND remove it when the car goes to the dealer you will not risk having your warranty voided.
#492
I have a V and going through the same issues. My car doesn't have the cylinder deactivation but still has all the 8l90 ISSUES. They just did the triple lush and as of now the low speed shudder is gone but the tranny moaning and 1-2 slam and occasional 3-2 slam are still there. Has there been any progress on fixing this? I know the most recent TSB ending in 361 says nothing will fix this.
#493
I have a V and going through the same issues. My car doesn't have the cylinder deactivation but still has all the 8l90 ISSUES. They just did the triple lush and as of now the low speed shudder is gone but the tranny moaning and 1-2 slam and occasional 3-2 slam are still there. Has there been any progress on fixing this? I know the most recent TSB ending in 361 says nothing will fix this.
I am trying to figure out my next pickup and there really isn't a great choice. I have been driving GMC 2500HD diesels since 2001 but a 1500 crewcab will work for my needs. My choices (none great) are:
1. Current Duramax diesel and deal with the DPF/regeneration and additional Rube Goldberg emissions stuff.
2. 2500HD with the 6.0L gas and lousy mileage from a large gas V8 with 4.10 rear end in a heavy pickup but at least no AFM/V4 hardware.
3. 1500 with the 6.2L with AFM and 8L90 potential issues.
At this point I am leaning towards the 1500 series with the 6.2 since the Range module tames the issue with my current 2016 Z06 but it seems somewhat foolish knowingly buying a new product that will require an immediate band aid for proper performance.
Last edited by NSC5; 02-26-2018 at 04:34 PM.
#494
Burning Brakes
If you use a Range or a Sprint the ECM will know that the car is never going into V4 mode just like it would with reprograming the ECM and setting the AFM 'switch' to off with no other changes. A red flag that the AFM is being turned off. No difference under denying warranty if they choose to enforce it.
There is really no way to defeat or turn off the AFM with out GM knowing in the end.
Everyone need to put pressure on GM to issue a software TSB to turn off the AFM except in ECO mode for the A8. This is really the only good solution at this time. Or one can just self insure the warranty.
There is really no way to defeat or turn off the AFM with out GM knowing in the end.
Everyone need to put pressure on GM to issue a software TSB to turn off the AFM except in ECO mode for the A8. This is really the only good solution at this time. Or one can just self insure the warranty.
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joemessman (02-26-2018)
#495
Instructor
If you use a Range or a Sprint the ECM will know that the car is never going into V4 mode just like it would with reprograming the ECM and setting the AFM 'switch' to off with no other changes. A red flag that the AFM is being turned off. No difference under denying warranty if they choose to enforce it.
There is really no way to defeat or turn off the AFM with out GM knowing in the end.
Everyone need to put pressure on GM to issue a software TSB to turn off the AFM except in ECO mode for the A8. This is really the only good solution at this time. Or one can just self insure the warranty.
There is really no way to defeat or turn off the AFM with out GM knowing in the end.
Everyone need to put pressure on GM to issue a software TSB to turn off the AFM except in ECO mode for the A8. This is really the only good solution at this time. Or one can just self insure the warranty.
Answering my own post after searching the Ask Tadge forum: [ANSWERED] Why can you not just disable the AFM?
Tadge answered:
I am going to start by assuming this question pertains to automatic transmissions only since AFM is turned off in all modes except Eco on the manual. I also assume folks know that when the auto is operated as a manual (i.e. "M" mode on the shifter), AFM is not operational.
I am going to start by assuming this question pertains to automatic transmissions only since AFM is turned off in all modes except Eco on the manual. I also assume folks know that when the auto is operated as a manual (i.e. "M" mode on the shifter), AFM is not operational.
Last edited by pnsnkr; 02-26-2018 at 05:34 PM.
#496
If you use a Range or a Sprint the ECM will know that the car is never going into V4 mode just like it would with reprograming the ECM and setting the AFM 'switch' to off with no other changes. A red flag that the AFM is being turned off. No difference under denying warranty if they choose to enforce it.
There is really no way to defeat or turn off the AFM with out GM knowing in the end.
Everyone need to put pressure on GM to issue a software TSB to turn off the AFM except in ECO mode for the A8. This is really the only good solution at this time. Or one can just self insure the warranty.
There is really no way to defeat or turn off the AFM with out GM knowing in the end.
Everyone need to put pressure on GM to issue a software TSB to turn off the AFM except in ECO mode for the A8. This is really the only good solution at this time. Or one can just self insure the warranty.
I agree that GM should change the software to turn off AFM except in ECO mode for the A8 but I would not hold my breath for that. They probably want to get the best MGP without the driver having to do anything.
Last edited by KCV; 02-26-2018 at 05:54 PM.
#497
Burning Brakes
V4 mode is active in all modes except manual or M mode, you can read it in the manual and tell by driving it.
The manual transmission V4 is only active in ECO mode. They should of done the same to the automatic A8, really who desires a sports car that runs like 4 cylinder car in which they turn the Corvette into when V4 is engaged?
It will be really hard to get GM to correct this but with enough persuading, just like in the Apple issue, it can be done.
Only 2 real choices, Ranger or reflash, either way warranty is in jeprody. Or one could just run it like it is and hope the TC will take the beating until it’s been replaced numerous times under warranty or until you trade it in.
The manual transmission V4 is only active in ECO mode. They should of done the same to the automatic A8, really who desires a sports car that runs like 4 cylinder car in which they turn the Corvette into when V4 is engaged?
It will be really hard to get GM to correct this but with enough persuading, just like in the Apple issue, it can be done.
Only 2 real choices, Ranger or reflash, either way warranty is in jeprody. Or one could just run it like it is and hope the TC will take the beating until it’s been replaced numerous times under warranty or until you trade it in.
#498
Tinker, your assertion that the Range jeopardizes the warranty is simply not borne out by the thousands of units in use by Corvette and various other GM owners. I too have searched the web numerous times to find any examples where GM has denied warranty service due to a Range being used, and I have been unable to find any such. If you do know of any links that show otherwise, please help out the community by posting these.
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Maxie2U (02-26-2018)
#499
Burning Brakes
Your absolute correct Ram_g,
By playing devils advociarI am attempting to show that by using a Range or by reflashing with a tuner and ONLY turning off the AFM, that I don’t believe that warranty would be denied. What would be the difference? It would not be hard for GM to read the ECM and know that 4V was inoperative over a period of time before a claim and surly they could dig a little deeper and tell if the ECM was re-flashed or a Range was used.
While the dealership would be hard pressed to read the deepest parts of the ECM reporting code, GM would not. The ECM knows when something is connected to the buss line, either a scanner, a Range or a programmer and logs it in the deepest part of the code. I see examples of this at work all the time on the electronics that we design and build.
This being said, I don’t believe GM would deny warrant to anyone if only the AFM was shut down by any means. Like you said, there has not been any known case of it happening.
By playing devils advociarI am attempting to show that by using a Range or by reflashing with a tuner and ONLY turning off the AFM, that I don’t believe that warranty would be denied. What would be the difference? It would not be hard for GM to read the ECM and know that 4V was inoperative over a period of time before a claim and surly they could dig a little deeper and tell if the ECM was re-flashed or a Range was used.
While the dealership would be hard pressed to read the deepest parts of the ECM reporting code, GM would not. The ECM knows when something is connected to the buss line, either a scanner, a Range or a programmer and logs it in the deepest part of the code. I see examples of this at work all the time on the electronics that we design and build.
This being said, I don’t believe GM would deny warrant to anyone if only the AFM was shut down by any means. Like you said, there has not been any known case of it happening.
#500
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Technically I think it would be possible to have coded logging like you describe but I highly doubt they have. I don't think any car company is logging that kind of telemetry except for maybe Tesla. Storing that type of data in the car, storage is cheap but there is no reason for them to really do that and I think we would have seen evidence of that by now.