mpuzach

There are a lot of misconceptions out there regarding leasing. Whether or not a particular deal (be it a lease or a sale) is profitable depends entirely on the ultimate sale price of the car. The leasing company buys the car from the dealership at whatever price is negotiated by the customer and the monthly lease payments are paid to the leasing company. Where people sometimes get stung (and this is relevant to leases AND purchases) is when the customer's most important number is the monthly payment. That's the worst way to try to negotiate. It's far better (whether leasing or buying) to negotiate the purchase number. On a lease, that is the number that will determine the monthly payment.

As to your second point, in many cases you are correct. There are a lot of people in this business who are here simply because it's all they can get. We've all experienced what it's like trying to work with those folks. There are also those among us who have college degrees, are mature articulate adults, know their products, and consistently display the utmost of professionalism. I for one find it very unfortunate that many buyers neither see nor care about the differences.

davepl

I don't need a salesperson. I've never met one that knew more about the car I was planning to buy than me, if as much. I don't get that.

By the time I get to the dealership I know what car I want, which options, MSRP vs dealer cost, and so on.

If you could buy cars on Amazon, I would. The sales staff adds next to nothing for me.

The guy I buy my cars from knows this, and we don't waste each other's time. We do it by email, I have the check ready when the vehicle gets delivered, and we shake hands when he leaves with my trade, if I have one. He's an exception too, because he's been at the same dealership for years, which isn't even local to me.

Normally, the experience is you pull up at a Chevy dealership and three guys run out to try to grab you, but none even have business cards yet because they've only been working there a week, and are sharing a desk, and know next to nothing about the cars.

I don't mean to sound down on cars salespeople, but I am. There ARE good ones out there. They're just rare.

PXMAN

This is exactly what I was thinking. The last time I bought a vehicle, I went to the Ford dealer that I have bought several trucks from and I was in and out in 15 minutes.

mpuzach

I wish more of my customers were like you; unfortunately, they're not. Not to sound arrogant or vain, but if you knew me I'm confident that you'd wish more people in this business were like me.

OnPoint

Yup - my latest Corvette buy went like that. Couple emails, 5-10 minutes on the phone. Papers fed-exed to me and back on their dime, and when I showed up it went like Dave mentioned above. Took only so much time as drop off my check and on my way.

Dave raises a good point - when you have a quality salesperson who knows his products (and knows how to handle trades if one is involved) this is pretty straight-forward stuff.

warren s

To answer the question from the OP directly, I think a few hundred bucks at best.

The sales personal do little to nothing to facilitate my buying experience and try to add their own value, just like lawyers making everything in the legal profession so complex that it feeds upon itself and is designed to necessitate their intervention for the simplest things.

We don’t need a middle man to run back and forth to the sales manager and play games among other things anymore.

Looking forward to the Tesla business model. There is little to no value added from the dealer, just a middle man.

mpuzach

^^^^ Thank you for your candid and constructive response. ^^^^

JerryU

Yep, bought my first Vette, an '88, they way you describe. Looked up dealer invoice and negotiated with the sales manager at the Chevy/Mercedes dealer by handing him a piece of paper with my info, MSRP and Dealer invoice (knowing there was a holdback but did not include that in my verbal negotiations.)

Reached a price for the Vette that was ordered and he gave the sale to a new salesman. Did the same with my next Vette, a '93. In both cases they would not be financing.

Today with the large dealers selling at deep discounts, appears to me to be like buying from Amazon. IF you know what you want, like many on the forum, and don't have a trade, tough to pay much more at a local dealer. Certainly worth the extra cost of a trip to a discount seller and driving it home or having it transported.

However there are many buyers who don't really understand the model differences or options. Also many have trades and don't want to sell on their own. Some what to drive the car or as a minimum buy one they have sat in and the wife likes! Therefore a competent Corvette salesperson is well worth it to the buyer. Dealer/salesperson profit have to mostly come from the trade and financing commissions. Can add the cost of getting a car from a discounter, but little more, IMO.

Talked to the salesman that sold us our BMW SUV before my recent Grand Sport purchase. They are a large Chevy, BMW and Mercedes Dealer and he can sell any of those brands. I just asked for a price on my trade. They looked at my mint condition 2014 C7 but he admitted in our area is not good for selling Vettes, new or used. They wholesale trades! Gave me a low offer for my 2014 (as expected) so I didn't even ask about the price for the new Vette I was planning to order, which he indicated would add ~$3000 to the trade value by discounting the new car. That was far less that the discounts offered by the large internet dealers.

Sold the 2014 on my own and bought from Kerbeck.

Makitso

HPT

If any of you have purchased a Tesla, you'll know what a joy the entire experience is. They prove that the traditional auto-dealership model is broken.

JerryU

Hmm, didn't mean that literally, for a Vette!

Guess you can buy anything from them!

No winder Jeff Bezos became the richest man in the World for a few minutes this week! Net worth was over $86 Billion beating out Bill Gates! Stock price dropped back down but wait a week!

Patman

I think his net worth was actually just over 90 billion, but what's a few billion dollars to these guys? It's probably what they carry around in their wallet!

Jaylars

Wonder if the Prime 2 day shipping is available.

KEZ06

If there were real pricing to start with from the manufacturer buyers wouldn't feel like they are being had. Unfortunately, the dealer and the salesperson get the brunt end of that mistrust. My experience was very good with the saleswoman at Classic in Grapevine. Oversupply equals no margin. Under supply equals big margin. The OP knows this. More educated buyers often know the car better than the salesperson and therefore can be more aggressive negotiating. The dealer doesn't have to sell the car at a certain price either.

rrsperry

I dealt with Mike Forman at Criswell because he's local to me. You all don't know what you missed. It was a VERY positive experience. I'm sure I could have gotten a better deal buying one of the many cars on the lot, but none of them were EXACTLY what I wanted. So I ordered it.

I didn't feel like I was had, they made money. (I have no idea how much) but I felt fair to me.

And no, I'm not going to go to war over $500 on a $73,000 car. Heck, the three hours I spend trying costs me more than that...lol

Iconic

Your salesman was Mike, not Mark.

AORoads

I have recently been in a few different markets assessing the cost of another brand of car. My experience tells me, it is still a dreadful time for the customer. To repeat: dreadful, just dreadful.

I'll also second Poorsha's comment of being a capitalist and wanting people and companies to make money. So, to answer the initial question by Mike, I'll say it this way: I am fine with the salesperson
making as much as they can on any given deal. And sometimes (most of the time for some who are good at their job) they can make more on one deal just like airline seats are not all the same cost.

I'll also say that while the consumer has much more information today than what Rebel spoke of in days gone by, it is my opinion that dealers did not sit still waiting for the tidal wave of consumer knowledge to roll over them, or drown in red ink because the customer knew more. My opinion is that the dealer, and the better sales staff always have 1) more information than a consumer will have, 2) more ways to come up with selling cars at a profit, and 3) more incentives that the customer will never know about. Never.

In fact, it is also my opinion that many sales staff know very little of the actual operation of a dealership, and don't care to know. But if they did care and found out more, they'd be far sharper at their job which means, make more money themselves.

All jmo. ymmv

NavyBlue2

Just placed order.
Amazon Prime free delivery in 2 days & no taxes!!!

blkvet6

Nope, IMO, it's not the buyer causing it.... when I'm ready to buy, just arrive at a reasonable price, and I buy.... can take 5 minutes as far as I'm concerned. The BS that the dealerships put one through is what is really hurting their sales. Most of us dread the absolute non-sense we have to go through to buy a car... and for the buyer, most of the time is just spent sitting there waiting for the dealership to do something, or bring in their "closer", or "processing paperwork", etc.

Landru

OK, then those in sales who actually study the attributes of cars they're trying to sell will split to greener pastures leaving only dolts.
Remember aw no bitching, you got your 'deal'.