witch hunt

exactly---near perfect Vette for me is Z51 w/ mag ride & Z06 engine only(don't need--big spoiler, bigger rims, extra scoops, wide body or any additional aero trim) but might pay extra for Recaro or other "special" seat option.

Kevin A Jones

That's true to some extent, however I believe the Wide Body GS is much more popular than being communicated in this thread.

Z51s make up less than 14% of total 2017 production.

tcinla

This guy is on to something. Don't be used by the corporate masters!!!

Foosh

Yes, and the GS was a new model in 2017, no big surprise. That's exactly what we're saying, it's the latest new thing. Clearly the GS cannibalized a lot of Z51 sales since the GS is essentially just a Z51, with wider body panels and wide tires. Overall, Stingray still outsells GS 41% to 36%.

Stingray Coupe, 11,253, 34.30%
Stingray Convertible, 2,298, 7.00%
Grand Sport Coupe, 9,912, 30.20%
Grand Sport Convertible, 2,046, 6.20%
Z06 Coupe, 6,197, 18.90%
Z06 Convertible, 1,076, 3.30%

Totals: 32,782

Kevin A Jones

You have to expect Stingray to be sales leader considering it's lower entry level price. It reinforces my point as to how popular the GS is in that even though the GS is $10,000 more, Stingray only outsells it by a mere 5%.

Foosh

Uh, I think we're violently agreeing. Yes, was popular as a new model for 2017, but like all new models, it's all downhill from here.

JerryU

FWIW, those who have a Z51 justifying why it's better is a bit of a stretch!

I conceded the narrow body look is fine but there is a reason Car and Driver and others rate the Grand Sport as the best overall performance.

I won't list the 0 to 60 times as it is very driver dependent and I don't care as I have an M7 so an automatic will beat me any day of the week!
However look at the Lateral "g" and braking data.

Now this is not a statistical average of every published report but does closely match what one mag got for both cars:

Lateral "g" : Z51 = 1.03/1.04; Grand Sport = 1.19/1.20

60 to 0 braking: Z51 = 101 feet; Grand Sport = 90 feet

Just Sayn' so the vocal minority doesn't outweigh real data in this Thread!

Foosh

I didn't hear anyone saying it was better, or justifying anything, just that we preferred the look, and it has certain advantages for street use like tire availability and costs less.

spireland

This is exactly me. Bought mine in December 2016 as a daily driver.

Non-Mag ride z51 works for me better as a daily than the GS. If I was going for a garage queen a GS would be a lot more fun but saving a few bucks, less money for tires, just works for a car I'm using on a daily basis.

spireland

Those are Z07 package numbers, right? $60k to $72k comparison....

That was my biggest complaint about Grand Sport, it was REALLY hard to find any reviews done on a regular Grand Sport, it was all done on Z07 equipped cars. That would be ridiculous for a daily driver.

JerryU

Nope standard brakes. Check Motor Trend they tested both with similar numbers. Yep track number would make a difference but not so much for lateral "gs" or braking. Speeds are slower so aero is not a factor.

Even the cf rotors are supposed to be better for tracking because they don't overheat but not sure they stop any faster. It's true most car mags got the Z07 to test. If I were GM that is what I would provide as well!

spireland

I think you need to read up on this. The Z07 does improve all of those things, that is why Chevy sent press cars with it. Don't believe me?

Straight from Brembo.

"If all of this doesn't seem to be enough, don't worry, there is always the Z07 Performance Package: along with the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires and a Z07 suspension that guarantee the possibility of taking turns at 1.2g (1.05g with the standard model), there is a more advanced braking system, also signed by Brembo.


Instead of discs with a cast iron braking band, the Z07 package uses larger, carbon-ceramic discs: 394 mm (38 mm thick) on the front and 390 mm (32 mm thick) on the rear. This makes for a considerable weight reduction: the braking system on each front wheel goes from 10.87 kg to 6.2 kg, with a 43 percent reduction, whereas the rear, also per unit, goes from 11.3 to 8 kg with a 29 percent reduction. This is a light weight that translates into quicker acceleration, shorter braking distance and even lower fuel consumption."

http://www.brembo.com/en/company/new...-brembo-brakes

JerryU

^^^
Have a Grand Sport and read quite a bit! The issue is they stop better when tracking and are hot as they get better and have zero fade.

Bet I'll beat one on my cold pad stop I do every day with my Carbotech 1521's! Had those on my 2014 Z51 and now on the larger Brembo calipers on the Grand Sport with fatter tires stops even faster. It you're tracking fine, agree with the Brembo marketing blurb!

JNess

I'd bet if you can get the Grand Sport wheels and tires under a Z51 w/Mag Ride, the numbers would be identical (non Z07 GS).

0-60 and lap times could even favor the Z51, due to a possible lower curb weight. I'm sure that making the GS fatter also added some sprung weight to the mix.

spireland

You said how amazing the GS was because of it's skid pad G rating, on a track...... now the tracking stats are pointless?

I pointed out that's because of the z07 package.

Not sure why you think the OEM Brembo isn't a valid source, because the info does back up, the GS is 1.05 in stock form....which is basically the same as the 1.03 you listed in your post for the Z51.

The GS is a great car. It's just not a night and day difference from a Z51, in stock form.

LT1 Z51

And what was the percentages the years prior? I think you missed my point. The numbers for 2017 alone are irrelevant, as most people who wanted a Z51 already bought one in the preceding 3 years.

I don't know how to make this clearer.

LT1 Z51

Jerry, most of the GS advantage in any numeric battle (grip, lap time, etc) is due to two things, one the aero (which you can add to the Z51) and the tires (Cup 2's do wonders).

All the magazines test with the Cup 2's, this is why GM offers them.

If you want an honest look at how much Cup 2's can change a car look at the GT350 and the GT350R (Mustang) numbers. The R only has 4 changes, 1. carbon fiber wheels 2. Cup 2 tires and 3. a carbon fiber wing 4. a larger front splitter, it basically proves aero + sticky tires = faster.

LT1 Z51

All the marketing cars have the "Stage 2 Aero" downforce is downforce. And to be honest, I doubt the cars GM gives out anyway, they are known to deliver them with "track alignments"

Again, see my previous post visa vie the Mustang GT350 versus the GT350R

JerryU

If I were giving cars out to the press would do the same! I picked lateral "gs" and 60 to 0 braking for that reason, aero doesn't have any significant effect at those speeds. Also 0 to 60 is more dependent on driver as does Track times so avoided using that as well..

But even my Grand Sport came with camber set at the high end of the broad GM spec. On average -1.6 camber.

JerryU

Yep had a Z51 as well for 3 1/2 years just that the Grand Sport is better! Never said the increase "g" force didn't effect track times, what I said is it and 0 to 60 times are more driver dependent. Can quote comparisons of both but that will just create more complaints by Z51 owners!

Decided to crunch some numbers on the Brembo info that sounds dramatic the way they present it; 43% and 29% rotor weight reduction for which they attribute all types of benefits related to the reduced Rotational Inertia!

Sounds good but the Rotational Inertia is proportional to the mass and the radius squared where the mass can be consider concentrated. Yep rotor weight reduction is ~9 pounds per their info. Calculating the rotor weight and effective radius, the Tire weights of 30 and 34 pounds and effective radius-much further out. Doing the same for the 26/28 pound wheel weight and estimating where that weight is positioned I get Rotational Inertial Values. Comparing both values yields a Rotational Inertia reduction of 4.2% with the carbon ceramic rotors. Not as dramatic!

As I said, if tracking worth the cost but I'll take my Carbotech 1521s for making quick stops on cold pads that I make several times per day when I leave my home and enter a 4 lane divided highway. After merging into 65 mph traffic I make a turn onto another rural road in less than 100 yards! I slow for that turn with very high "g" braking to avoid anyone behind me from having to hit their brakes!