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Shocking that people who blow $70k-100k on a 460hp-650hp sports car because it's so capable are wondering why GM would want to build a car more capable than what the average user will need, all while lusting over the Z51
Last edited by village idiot; 10-19-2017 at 11:34 AM.
One of the main attractions to RMR with its rear weight bias is the ability to put the power to ground with its increased traction. I would suggest that while this can be helpful on track, that the folks who would benefit most from this improvement over the current platform are folks who don't track their cars. The current vette has reached the point of its limits of being able to put power to ground with current OEM tires. Whether pulling hard from a standing start, or power shifting into second, or feathering throttle on mid-turn, keeping the rear hooked up would benefit all.
I couldn't agree more.
Traction is my main complaint with my Z06.
I want the rear to hook-up without me having to worry about it during spirited driving.
Originally Posted by LT1 Z51
I don't think GM is dumb enough obviously to throw away FMR. MR is an addition not a replacement.
Agreed.
Going completely MR right now would probably alienate too many folks...they will have to be eased into it.
Regarding Hypercars being MR. Absolutely dumb, but those cars don't make sense because the people who buy them as status symbols not as actual driving cars.
Indeed.
It is silly to even discuss Hypercars when talking about Corvettes.
Other than 4 wheels, there is no connection whatsoever.
Originally Posted by LT1 Z51
If you do a study of cars like the Corvette, I bet many of them are bought by people who are one or two car households. MR cars are not, they are typically a 4th or 5th car in a household, a 3rd car would be I think the absolute minimum. So the demographic is different.
The question becomes, who are you selling to? I think the one or two car household is a larger segment, and therefore you'd never ever design and sell a mass market car as an MR car.
Typically, someone who has a McLaren, Lambo, Ferrari, etc. has considerably more income than the ordinary Corvette owner.
That is the differentiation.
Just look at the Viper.
The demise of the Viper had very unique factors that don't really translate.
A better example to your point would be the F-type Jaguar.
Originally Posted by Zymurgy
When you have a MR exotic at a Corvette type price point, the market dynamics change.
If they come out with a killer design, that will most surely be the case.
The Corvette chief engineer has already stated that a MR could be built for $5K more than the current C7.
When that happens, there will be a LOT of crow being eaten around here.
I'm single and have 4 cars in my household. I drive my 4 door sedan mainly running boring errands around town and road trips to kinfolks in Arkansas(away from civilization and I need a back seat).
I drive my C6 Z06 on long road trips and the large cargo space is more than welcome. I don't want to drive a boring 4 door sedan while hitting all the national parks, etc. Driving roads like the Pig Trail and Tail of the Dragon, Iron mountain Road, Million Dollar Highway, etc, are for Corvettes, not sedans and SUV's.
I would venture you are a statistical outlier.
As with anything there are always exceptions (aka statistical outliers). There is statistical significance to the thought that the more vehicles you have the less you care about them being well rounded. As each one probably has a specific use.
I hope to buy a MR Corvette, and it would be the 2nd car in the household, not the 3rd absolute minimum (replacing my current C7 which is a daily driver).
When you have a MR exotic at a Corvette type price point, the market dynamics change. The Corvette chief engineer has already stated that a MR could be built for $5K more than the current C7.
Would you buy a 4C today? It's the same things.
If so you are a statistical outlier.
This is where statements like "everyone" or other blanket statements inherently exclude statistical outliers. If you are an exception, you prove the rule.
I could give a **** about trunk space or interior cabin storage etc. I didn't buy the Vette to go on road trips or be a grand touring car, or go grocery shopping in. That's what my DD is for and my wife's SUV.
Not everybody cares about the same things and many are very willing to sacrifice storage space to get a reasonably priced RMR car (assuming it's not a halo model).
I, for one, am anxious to see if Corvette can deliver us one for a reasonable price. I disagree that this would not be a game changer at the level of price and performance the Corvette operates at.
I agree with you that not all of us look for the same thing when buying cars. BUT, you had better believe that GM is looking at offering the Corvette that "most" of their clientele will purchase when GM is planning future products.
I spent a day last week instructing a father/daughter combo in driving their 458 Ferrari at VIR. The car handles great and reacts better to certain handling situations I wouldn't want to experience in my C7 Z06. This is the second time I have instructed in a rear mid engine car in the last 6 months. The first time was in an Audi R8 V10. Both cars exhibited similar handling characteristics and after riding in the 458 I am sure the C8 will be a better handling car than the current C7.
As with anything there are always exceptions (aka statistical outliers). There is statistical significance to the thought that the more vehicles you have the less you care about them being well rounded. As each one probably has a specific use.
I would venture to say that the vast majority of my Corvette friends(100+) are retired(and many of the remaining are near retirement) and their Corvette is a "toy" (they also have two other vehicles, his and hers daily drivers, or more) and their Corvette is driven on selected occasions, just like I do.
I really doubt that I'm an outsider, as you believe. Even if I only had two cars(a DD sedan and a new Corvette), my use of both the cars wouldn't change. 4-door sedan for boring errands, etc, and the Corvette as a toy for selected use(road trips, etc).
In my circle of Corvette friends, very few of them use their Corvette as a daily drivers.
I spent a day last week instructing a father/daughter combo in driving their 458 Ferrari at VIR. The car handles great and reacts better to certain handling situations I wouldn't want to experience in my C7 Z06. This is the second time I have instructed in a rear mid engine car in the last 6 months. The first time was in an Audi R8 V10. Both cars exhibited similar handling characteristics and after riding in the 458 I am sure the C8 will be a better handling car than the current C7.
Bill
How many sports car owner live close to a race track?
I bet that if you took a map, marked all the road course tracks in the US and then marked where every Corvette owner lives, most are not anywhere near a track. Then mark the locations only those Corvette owners that are actually interested in driving their Corvette on a road course every weekend.
I live 220 miles from the nearest road course track. How many sports car owners that are interested in going to a track every weekend live within 220 mile of a road course?
I see the videos of people running their cars on road courses, and most of them are low cost automobiles, not high priced cars like the Ferrari, etc., or even a new Corvette Z06.
A good engineer/business manager doesn't design/market his product to suit 5% of his potential customers while giving the finger to the remaining 95%.
The 95% pay the bills, not the 5%.
You should get out more and look at how most people use their Corvettes. From the 1957 Corvette onward, when a high performance engine/suspension/brakes etc were available as extra cost options, the majority of Corvette owners opted for the lower performing base car. I suggest you look at the production stats for the past 60 years.
A good friend bought a new 1958 Corvette(and he still has it and it's 99% original) with the Fuel Injection option. I doubt that you are even aware that there were two optional Fuel Injection engine options in 1958. Both were the same price($484.20) and he purchased the 250 HP version instead of the 290 HP version. He could have saved money and had an even higher horsepower engine (270 HP) for $182.95. Just goes to show that not everyone wants the "highest" performing Corvette available, even when the highest horsepower engine is no more expensive.
Why are you not driving a Z06 with the Z07 option, since having the highest performing Corvette available is so important to you? I'm not interested in having the latest "bad ***" version but my Corvette is higher performing than yours. I bought the Z06 and not the ZR1 as I'm not on an "ego trip". I wasn't interested in paying another $76,000 just so I could claim to have the fastest Corvette available. I'm one of the 95%er's, and there are a bunch of us around.
As usual, you completely missed the point. And, of course you, have to mention your old Z06. Just like you, Joe, your BS is getting really old.
FYI, I wouldn't keep telling everyone you drove your Z06 at 160 somewhere. The thought of an angry 70 year old behind the wheel at more than twice the legal speed limit (if this actually happened, which I seriously doubt) is very dangerous. At least have some concern for others.
I would venture to say that the vast majority of my Corvette friends(100+) are retired(and many of the remaining are near retirement) and their Corvette is a "toy" (they also have two other vehicles, his and hers daily drivers, or more) and their Corvette is driven on selected occasions, just like I do.
I really doubt that I'm an outsider, as you believe. Even if I only had two cars(a DD sedan and a new Corvette), my use of both the cars wouldn't change. 4-door sedan for boring errands, etc, and the Corvette as a toy for selected use(road trips, etc).
In my circle of Corvette friends, very few of them use their Corvette as a daily drivers.
True, but I was saying statistically based on number of vehicles.
I would expect your behavior to be normal for a person who has 2 cars. And honestly I think a lot of retirees we could say 1 car families, I don't think I've ever met anyone who had 1 car (in the whole family) and that car was a Corvette. Although I'm sure they exist.
True, but I was saying statistically based on number of vehicles.
I would expect your behavior to be normal for a person who has 2 cars. And honestly I think a lot of retirees we could say 1 car families, I don't think I've ever met anyone who had 1 car (in the whole family) and that car was a Corvette. Although I'm sure they exist.
Rare indeed but I do have a friend(who is a grandma) who is single and only has one car. A 2016 C7 Z06 with the M7.
I do have several other single friends who daily drive their Corvette, but they have some really "old" cars in their garage, that are not driven very often(if at all), so in effect, they really are single car owners.
Two of my four cars are "old" and one(1956 Corvette) doesn't get driven, and the other (1964 Corvette) very seldom gets driven, maybe 200-300 miles annually.
So, I'm really a two car person.
I have a neighbor who is the local GM Zone Manager. His daily driver is a GM owned impala, but in his garage is a 1925 Chevrolet coupe, and a 1980 Corvette with 800 miles(yes I've tried to buy it, but he won't sell). Neither of his two "garage" cars are driven.
As usual, you completely missed the point. And, of course you, have to mention your old Z06. Just like you, Joe, your BS is getting really old.
FYI, I wouldn't keep telling everyone you drove your Z06 at 160 somewhere. The thought of an angry 70 year old behind the wheel at more than twice the legal speed limit (if this actually happened, which I seriously doubt) is very dangerous. At least have some concern for others.
Blowing smoke out your *** again, I see. I have driven, several different times, at over 160 MPM around the Talladega Super Speedway. Since I was on a race track, it was 100% legal. The bad thing, is, if I had hit the wall, and lived, State Farm wouldn't have replaced my car. I was fully aware of that, but since I have the money to replace the car, I wasn't worried about destroying my car(wouldn't want to, as it might also hurt my 70 year body, at that time). Funny that no one else on the track was concerned about my age as I was driving faster than they were.
Tell me, have fast have you driven your Corvette down the "Strip", legally?
People like you are disgusting. You think every senior citizen is not capable of tying their shoes.
This 82 year old woman has driven faster than I have at 171 MPH and I bet she could wipe your "bad ***" in a heartbeat.
I bet I get around more than you. I wonder how I was able to get into the pits and into the garages during a NASCAR Cup Race? Could it be that I know more "car" people than you, living in your little fantasy world in Vegas.
Maybe this "old man" gets around a hell of a lot more than you.
If all engineers thought like you, there would never be any progress. "Let's not make it better because only 5% will use it." Brilliant.
There's also a little thing called "competition," in which cars are tested by magazines and websites. When one car performs better than another, it becomes more desirable to those who care about such things. People who buy performance cars usually do. Whether or not they choose to use it to it's full potential is up to them.
Car tests are for comparison, done mostly in optimum environments by talented drivers. It helps the buyer gauge what he's buying. Some people buy for bragging rights, some buy to actually push the limits of themselves and the car.
To ignore the possibilities of improving the breed simply because few will actually use what they have is about as stupid as it gets. And of course there are those who cling to what they have hoping that the latest and greatest doesn't make them feel bad about how dated their "Precious" has become. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz-8CSa9xj8
Beginning to think you just want to bitch at anything Joe says
A) I need someplace to put my bicycle, I don't think I can manage that with a mid-engine car.
B) The $65K or so (with tax, etc.) my 2017 cost was a stretch. I can't blow $130K on a car, so the question is academic for me.
But it will help the Corvette brand to have a mid-engine pricier model to go toe to toe with the elite Euro exotic cars. The current cars already do that, but a mid-engine competitor will make it kind of interesting. The current C7 cars are so fast around a race track, hard to imagine the Zora will be faster still. Because if it is, it will break a lot of street car lap records on race tracks around the world.
The recent spy shots of the car look close to production and impressive. Hopefully we'll see the actual car by January and photos before that.
A) I need someplace to put my bicycle, I don't think I can manage that with a mid-engine car.
B) The $65K or so (with tax, etc.) my 2017 cost was a stretch. I can't blow $130K on a car, so the question is academic for me.
But it will help the Corvette brand to have a mid-engine pricier model to go toe to toe with the elite Euro exotic cars. The current cars already do that, but a mid-engine competitor will make it kind of interesting. The current C7 cars are so fast around a race track, hard to imagine the Zora will be faster still. Because if it is, it will break a lot of street car lap records on race tracks around the world.
The recent spy shots of the car look close to production and impressive. Hopefully we'll see the actual car by January and photos before that.
Those cars look like later IVERs so I'd say 12+ months before reveal 18+ months before on sale.
Blowing smoke out your *** again, I see. I have driven, several different times, at over 160 MPM around the Talladega Super Speedway. Since I was on a race track, it was 100% legal. The bad thing, is, if I had hit the wall, and lived, State Farm wouldn't have replaced my car. I was fully aware of that, but since I have the money to replace the car, I wasn't worried about destroying my car(wouldn't want to, as it might also hurt my 70 year body, at that time). Funny that no one else on the track was concerned about my age as I was driving faster than they were.
Tell me, have fast have you driven your Corvette down the "Strip", legally?
People like you are disgusting. You think every senior citizen is not capable of tying their shoes.
This 82 year old woman has driven faster than I have at 171 MPH and I bet she could wipe your "bad ***" in a heartbeat.
I bet I get around more than you. I wonder how I was able to get into the pits and into the garages during a NASCAR Cup Race? Could it be that I know more "car" people than you, living in your little fantasy world in Vegas.
Maybe this "old man" gets around a hell of a lot more than you.
Love the hat. Is that your Indiana Jones outfit? Lookin' very sharp!
10-19-2017, 11:34 AM
