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Just purchased a 2016 M7. I have been driving C1 & C2 4 speeds for years and down shift them regularly in normal driving.
Can I get an explanation / advice how to best use the M7 and rev match for both upshifting and downshifting? Can you skip gears when downshifting and is it advisable to downshift regularly when slowing and coming to a stop? I had a guy at the dealer tell me you can start out better in 2nd than first for a regular acceleration. I know the M7 guys here have a lot of experience with these transmissions. Thanks
One of my favorite features on the C7. Yes, you can skip shifts, and yes you can downshift. Without getting too technical, it simply blips the throttle, and works better once the engine is warm... Details from the owner’s manual below:
There's nothing that magical about rev match. It's simple really. When it's on and you shift into a new gear a calculation is made essentially saying "in the gear we are about to go into, what should the RPM be to match the current speed?". Then, if the RPM must be increased then the car gives the engine enough gas to reach that RPM. Given that knowledge, apply it to how YOU use a clutch.
For me, rev match is most noticeable when you are say driving windy back roads in the mountains. If you're gunning it you're largely using gears 3 and 4 in the M7. Often you come to a turn and need to slow down, drop it into 3rd while navigating the turn. As you reach the apex and let go of the clutch the car's RPM is already perfectly matched to the place it needs to be in 3rd gear at this speed. The effects I feel is no engine braking (when your engine slows you down because the RPMs are lower than what the current speed requires) and a perfectly fit exchange of power between the gears.
The other place where I tend to use rev match is on a freeway that has traffic but also has a lot of what I call holes in the traffic. There I might be in 5th or 6th when a hole opens up to either side of me. I tap the turn signal (giving 3 clicks and then it stops by itself), downshift to 3rd or 4th and give it gas as I enter the lane hole and accelerate past. Since rev match is on I get a smooth transition of power.
Lately I've added a 3rd scenario where I might be driving on a freeway for a long distance and traffic and hole aside, I just leave rev match on. I enjoy the smooth transition of power whenever I shift which is not often (I tend to be in 7th with cruise control on in these situations).
The only time I don't like rev match is when you're going down some big hill and coasting and you shift to neutral but with rev match on, if you pass by a gear and it thinks you're headed for that gear it will gas the car to meet the RPM requirements but then stay gassed as you coast. I don't like that.
But enjoy and experiment. Many here say they put it on and leave it on no matter where they are driving. I don't.
OP, pay particular attention to the next-to-last bullet in the owner's manual description. If your foot is even resting on the throttle, you may be putting enough pressure on it for it to not function properly. Lift your foot completely when using ARM-aided downshifts.
Yeah, it should be that simple, but in an attempt to understand why people so many people were saying it didn't work well, I experimented w/ leaving my foot resting on the throttle. It does not work nearly as well or as consistently when you do that. It's 100% w/ foot fully lifted.
I think many people leave their foot resting on the throttle, and are subconsciously/inadvertently inputting a little throttle during downshifts. If so they are right, it isn't working by engineering design per the manual. I noticed that when I first took delivery I was programmed to manually rev-match, and by habit, kept my foot on the throttle. I had to break that habit, and when I did I couldn't believe how good ARM was.
ARM really isn't needed in a 7-6, 6-5, 5-4 downshift. It's 4-3, and 3-2 where rev-matching (either ARM or manual) is most useful to avoid chassis upset. Those are the larger gears with more mass and inertia.
I guess I just naturally take my foot off the throttle when shifting. If you are driving windy mountain roads then I often have my foot on the brake decelerating into a turn.
Yeah, it should be that simple, but in an attempt to understand why people so many people were saying it didn't work well, I experimented w/ leaving my foot resting on the throttle. It does not work nearly as well or as consistently when you do that. It's 100% w/ foot fully lifted.
I think many people leave their foot resting on the throttle, and are subconsciously/inadvertently inputting a little throttle during downshifts. If so they are right, it isn't working by engineering design per the manual. I noticed that when I first took delivery I was programmed to manually rev-match, and by habit, kept my foot on the throttle. I had to break that habit, and when I did I couldn't believe how good ARM was.
ARM really isn't needed in a 7-6, 6-5, 5-4 downshift. It's 4-3, and 3-2 where rev-matching (either ARM or manual) is most useful to avoid chassis upset. Those are the larger gears with more mass and inertia.
Foosh,
So you keep your foot momentarily off the throttle until the rev match kicks in, then put your foot back on to accelerate into the upshift or downshift? Can't even remember what I do with my 4 speeds because it is second nature. Does downshifting regularly coming to a stop cause any wear on the trans or is it better to coast in neutral?
Yes, you just completely lift foot off throttle momentarily while downshifting and smoothly release the clutch, then back on throttle as necessary.
Brake pads are a lot cheaper than clutches and transmissions, so I generally downshift no lower than 3rd when slowing and then use the brakes from there. As I'm getting very slow, I depress the clutch, come to a complete stop, and then place the gearshift in neutral and release the clutch while waiting for the light to go green. That will save wear on your clutch throw-out bearing.
I don't coast in neutral with the clutch released, in case I need to quickly take evasive action.
Never use it. Been driving a stick for 45 years (63 now)
I automatically rev match by habit.
What did we do before it??????
If you know how to properly drive a stick you don't need it.
As far as starting out in 2nd, forget it. Dealer wants you to pay for a new clutch.
These gears aren't steep enough.
I think the issue for many using ARM is that they need to unlearn their old habit of keeping the foot on the throttle, which is necessary to blip it for a manual rev match.
ARM eliminates the need to heel/toe, freeing your foot up for braking only, but it's still fun to practice it. However, if heel/toe is your thing, you need to turn ARM off.
When I first went to Spring Mt. shortly after it opened 11-12 or so years ago, heel/toe practice was a big part of level 1 and level 2 curricula. With the advent of ARM, I don't think they even teach it anymore.
I guess I need to pay attention to see if I have my foot on the throttle when shifting from 1st to 2nd as sometimes the car revs between these gears. I thought it was part of the rev match.
I see the logic behind downshifting only as low as 3rd but I love the sound of the exhaust when slowing down in 2nd gear.
There's nothing that magical about rev match. It's simple really. When it's on and you shift into a new gear a calculation is made essentially saying "in the gear we are about to go into, what should the RPM be to match the current speed?". Then, if the RPM must be increased then the car gives the engine enough gas to reach that RPM. Given that knowledge, apply it to how YOU use a clutch.
For me, rev match is most noticeable when you are say driving windy back roads in the mountains. If you're gunning it you're largely using gears 3 and 4 in the M7. Often you come to a turn and need to slow down, drop it into 3rd while navigating the turn. As you reach the apex and let go of the clutch the car's RPM is already perfectly matched to the place it needs to be in 3rd gear at this speed. The effects I feel is no engine braking (when your engine slows you down because the RPMs are lower than what the current speed requires) and a perfectly fit exchange of power between the gears.
The other place where I tend to use rev match is on a freeway that has traffic but also has a lot of what I call holes in the traffic. There I might be in 5th or 6th when a hole opens up to either side of me. I tap the turn signal (giving 3 clicks and then it stops by itself), downshift to 3rd or 4th and give it gas as I enter the lane hole and accelerate past. Since rev match is on I get a smooth transition of power.
Lately I've added a 3rd scenario where I might be driving on a freeway for a long distance and traffic and hole aside, I just leave rev match on. I enjoy the smooth transition of power whenever I shift which is not often (I tend to be in 7th with cruise control on in these situations).
The only time I don't like rev match is when you're going down some big hill and coasting and you shift to neutral but with rev match on, if you pass by a gear and it thinks you're headed for that gear it will gas the car to meet the RPM requirements but then stay gassed as you coast. I don't like that.
But enjoy and experiment. Many here say they put it on and leave it on no matter where they are driving. I don't.
Why would you reach the apex and let the clutch out? The way I have always done it is to be in the right gear for the exit when entering the turn. I can see how that's not as important with rev matching but it still seems like a bad thing to do.
Why would you reach the apex and let the clutch out? The way I have always done it is to be in the right gear for the exit when entering the turn. I can see how that's not as important with rev matching but it still seems like a bad thing to do.
You are absolutely, positively, 100% correct - brake and downshift before corner entry so you're in the correct gear for initial track-out!!!!
Screwing around with downshifting in the corner will only mess with the balance of the car. You can see Aryton may be modulating the throttle and steering during the turn, and I see he does a quick tap of the brake during one of the turns (commonly done to balance the car, or shift a little weight forward onto the front wheels during the turn), but you sure don't see him downshifting in the turn.
When using rev matching (or just doing your own throttle blip) let the clutch out immediately after the engine revs. If you hold the clutch pedal down and wait before letting it up to engage the clutch, you're defeating the rev matching as the revs can drop and when you do let the clutch out you'll get a jerk of the drive train that upsets the car.
You can see in that video of Aryton, he NEVER pushes the clutch in and holds the pedal down!!! The only time you should ever need to do that is when coming to a complete stop.
I can heel-and-toe almost as good as Aryton, and I've been driving nothing but manual transmission cars for more than 57 years. I could double-clutch/heel-n-toe my Dad's old '57 VW and "snick" those straight cut gears down into 1st gear at anything under 15 mph (max speed at redline in 1st). My wife and I have never had a vehicle with any automatic transmission until I got an F-150 four years ago to tow my trailer to track events - and you can't even get a manual transmission in one anymore.
Butt...unlike a couple others that have commented, I LUV the rev-matching feature in the C7!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whether driving on the track or the street, throughout almost 6 decades of driving/riding manual transmissions, I almost always downshift and use engine braking when slowing down. In my C6's and now C7, or on my Harleys, I hardly ever go down into 1st until coming to a stop, but quite commonly am down into 2nd, but I NEVER push the clutch pedal down (or pull the clutch lever in on the Harley) and hold it unless coming to a complete stop is imminent.
Bottom line - ARM is a fantastic feature on our Vettes!! I use it all the time. When you downshift and get the rev increase, immediately select your lower gear (and I often go from 5th to 3rd a couple places on the Rolex 24 road course at Daytona) and quickly let the clutch out before the revs drop, and you'll have a perfectly smooth downshift.
The old logic was, it’s cheaper to replace brake pads then a transmission or clutch’ if your downshifting to slow down.
I've heard this but always disregarded it. Wives tale? I try and save my brakes, especially in this age of crappy quality rotors that need to be replaced if they overheat, like on my GMC (not Corvette!).
I believe Corvette M7 is bulletproof. Downshift it!! Say no to brake dust!
10-21-2017, 01:38 PM
M7 Rev Match Tutorial Needed
The only time you should ever need to do that is when coming to a complete stop.
