Walt White Coupe

you've given nothing but insults

Sorry for your thin skin and I didn't mean to insult you, I just have a different view of things.

Did you know that automobile manufacturers put air filters on their engines before they put on oil filters? They didn't do that without good cause. It's because they knew how damaging dirty air is to the entire engine. For the 55 Chevy and the 265 V8 the oil filter was an option and it wasn't even a full flow through.

JerryU

Sounds like you have not changed the one in the C7.

You have to remove the air duct and housing before you can remove the filter. Before you put it back together with a new filter you can clean the large tube and housing to whatever level you’d like. Operating room clean if desired.

Agree filters do trap more air for a bit as they collect dirt. However then they clog and restrict flow! I can clean my oiled cotton filter every 20,000 miles, half the GM recommendation. No real cost as I have the oil for the 14 inch diameter X 5 inch K&N in my Street Rod. Love the sucking sound at WOT!

JerryU

Now when GM shows the power increase they get with the low restriction system the showed at SEMA will you trust that or will your subjective opinion be better!

It looks a lot like the aFe I added and expect they will show about a 15 hp increase. The aFe publish their data that shows a torture increase from about 2500 rpm as I recall with a peak hp increase. It is probable on the high side but I look at it this way:

I paid $1100 for NPP in my 2014 Z51 and got 5hp and noise!

I paid less than $500 for the aFe and probably got >10 hp and noise (at WOT.)

That is a 4 fold better valve!

I also removed it when I sold the 2014 and installed it on my Grand Sport. Great cost savings. Just cleaned the filter!

Waiting twice the GM recommendation to change air filters, 62,000 miles??

Walt White Coupe

And you have the added benefit of reducing your engines long term life for a few HP and a louder sucking sound. That sounds reasonable.
I'll give that just one .

I'll reserve judgement until I see the GM Performance system details. An oiled filter, I don't think so.

JerryU

Don’t expect you would believe the aFe data but below but is their dyno test results. +15 hp.

Perhaps when GM publishes their data you’ll be convinced! Agree they will use a paper filter for the high profit margin and required repeat purchase!

Walt White Coupe

I'd give a lot more credibility to GM than the word of an air filter manufacturer trying to sell an air filter.

juanvaldez

The stock filter is pricey. The Vararam CAI works, the filter is serviceable (more often than stock so more work on you part). I talked to the Corvette engineering folks at Carlisle. Asked them if they really left hp on the table. Answer, yes, because they had to meet noise and crash worthiness standards aftermarket doesn't. You can hear more intake noise with the Vararam.

Allen_B

There is a quantitative method to measure the effectiveness of your air filter. Next time you change your oil, send a sample to Blackstone for a used oil analysis (UOA).

In addition to providing great info on the health of your oil, it also gives a comprehensive snap-shot of the health of your engine and support systems. One key tidbit is a silica report, which indicates how much "sand" is making it past your filter and into the engine. Can indicate when to replace AND to look for air leaks on the intake side.

Dismissing all of that, modern engines operate on critical tolerances that sand and other contaminants are not friendly to. I'm sure your Civic is doing fine and sounds like your C5 is in another garage. Do what you like but air filters are literally the 1st line of defense against contaminants getting into the engine and a clean one moves more air. That clean fresh air, combined with fuel and spark does wonders in a IC engine.

If you're not going to do a UOA then you may want to at least inspect the filter at every oil change. If it looks fine and more importantly the intake tube is clean, then you're ahead of the ignore and wait for failure approach.

Your vehicles, do what you are comfortable with...

Allen

Walt White Coupe

Allen,

Patman

I actually have been doing UOAs on all of my vehicles for over 15 years now Allen, only I use Wearcheck Canada since it's only a 5 minute drive from where I work. I do agree that it gives a good idea of what's going on inside the engine, including that silicon level. In one instance with a 95 Firebird I had, my silicon level was quite high and upon closer inspection I found a crack in one of the rubber pieces on the other side of the air filter. FWIW, the silicon levels in my Civic's oil are still quite low. When I switched to the Vararam in my old C5 the silicon levels did rise slightly (which I expected due to the better air flow and the ram air effect of that system) but they eventually dropped a little bit once the filters got more miles on them. I just looked up my maintenance records for that C5 and it turns out my Vararam was on the car for a total of over 7 years and 74,000 miles without ever touching those two air filters. As mentioned before, I saw no loss in performance with that car in the quarter mile times and no loss in MPG, so I doubt that the filters were anywhere near clogged.

I will admit this though, with all this air filter talk it made me stop at Canadian Tire on my way home from work and picked up a brand new air filter for the Civic. When the weather is a little better I'll change it out and take pictures of the old air filter. I honestly don't expect it to look all that bad. One note, I was wrong about it's mileage, I thought I had put the air filter in as soon as I bought the car but it turns out I did it a couple of years after. So it only has 61,000 km on it, not 100. My bad. (or good, depending on how you look at it here)

Perhaps I won't let the filter in my C7 go all the way to 100,000km, at least not without taking it out at 50,000km and inspecting it first. If it looks good to go and my UOAs still look good, I'll keep going to maybe 80,000km.

Gary barnes 1098

You gotta love these guys that say" gm engineered the stock air filter so it's about as good as it gets,leave it alone " So I ask then so it can't get any better with an upgraded aftermarket one? So the cams engineered,an upgraded one won't help? Exhaust manifolds were engineered by gm so headers won't help? Don't forget all the upgraded super chargers z06 owners buy and sell their factory engineered stock ones?!?!?!. Some people just don't get it!!! Most of us love performance upgrades!!! Gm like other car makers are limeted to going crazy with these upgraded parts because of reasons like noise regulations and EPA limets!!! If the op wants a haltech intake or other upgraded brand it's a proven fact they do well on our cars for numerous reasons!!!! Do you realize an air intake is one of the first things that the big car mod builders do before adding cams,headers and other upgrades??? Crawl out from underneath your rock and look up proven facts and performance upgrade packages from top shelf companies like katech!!!!!

dbaker

I was one of the testers for the BMS dry filter.It's very well made and for the price of the OE filter,it's a good upgrade.

Look it up and see what you think.

\db2

L to R:BMS,OE,K&N.

LT4CMG

Like Jerry, Dbaker and a couple others have said, size matters. I think the c7 has a decent design, but a better breathing, larger filter is what I went with. Bought from a vendor here, TKO, the Attack Blue dry nanofiber filter. Great construction, considerably bigger than OE and reusable. I’m happy with it.

Gary barnes 1098

. Make sure you guys don't change out you gm engineered brake pads to another source either!!!

Vet Interested

Actually there is a better sound. A 69 Hemi Charger at full throttle W/O an air filter!

Back on subject, OEM filter.

Patman

As promised, I took pictures of the air filter after I removed it from my Civic. It was in there since August 2013 (4 1/2 years) and 61,376 km (38,137 miles) It honestly looked like it could easily go two or three times as long as it did! I changed it, only because I already bought a new one, but I really don't think it was needed at all. My plan with my C7 is to take out the filter and inspect it periodically but as long as it doesn't look dirty (or torn) and as long as the inside of the airbox looks fine and that no dirt is getting past the filter, I will keep going as I see no reason to spend money to replace something that is still doing it's job very well. Especially if the filter costs as much as I think it will up here in Canada (well over $100) So I would suggest you guys do the same, inspect the filter first before just blindly replacing it because you think that it's been on there for too many miles. Some areas are dustier than others, obviously my area isn't too bad, even with all the road salt they dump on the roads in the winter. Here is the picture of my Civic's filter (and I did not knock any dirt out of it at all, the way you see it is exactly how it came out of the car):

madrob2020

I'm an old fart & I bit my tongue when a few posters said "why back in the day we didn't even use filters" for more power (air) or sound. I wanted to point out what your filter shows but had no photos. I guess those folks not using filters would rather all that stuff just go into engine (right-couldn't cause wear). I remember pulling the old round filter over the carbs (I know, what's a carb) & seeing all those dead grasshoppers/june bugs/seeds/etc & realizing I sure wouldn't want that crap going down the intake. Those used to take their air from the front grill so I do realize our cars pull from the side so less crap going right into filter but even dust would cause some wear.

Walt White Coupe

So the pleated paper elements in the stock filter are "state of the art" filtration paper with the smallest passageways and the least restriction to air flow. The only way to increase air flow is to open up the passageways and allow more air and dirt to flow through.

Here is a post from "FatsWaller" yesterday on the same subject a different filter tread.

I was thinking of using a K&N in my C6, after racking up 120K miles in an Aurora and 100K miles in a Caddy with no apparent ill effects. However, there appears to have been some 'real' research done on air filters and I'll quote first briefly from that, before indicating the link to the site:

"In 60 minutes the AC Filter accumulated 574gms of dirt and passed only 0.4gms. After only 24 minutes the K&N had accumulated 221gms of dirt but passed 7.0gms. Compared to the AC, the K&N “plugged up” nearly 3 times faster, passed 18 times more dirt and captured 37% less dirt. See the data tables for a complete summary of these comparisons."

Admittedly, the test was for diesel engine filters, but I don't think the filter technology is any different compared to gas, so I'm going with the results. I'm not after short term gain (if there is any), for long term pain.

The article starts of a bit wordy, but read on
http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html

Allen_B

Until convinced with quantitative results, I'll stick with the OEM filter and change sooner rather than later.

I am not an automotive (or any other kind of) engineer, but can't figure out the logic of reducing, or as some "old timers" have reminisced about removing, filtration from the intake of an engine.

I completely understand improving air flow to an IC engine to improve power and/or efficiency but doing so at the sake of filtration seems to be a recipe for disaster.

The stock AC is designed to protect and serve a stock engine. I admit I would entertain a solution that offers improved air volume but only if it provided the same or better filtration. The only way I can see that happening is a larger element with more surface area, it's a matter of simple mechanics but that's not what many offer without modification to the air box. I have to compare other claims to the proverbial "snake oil" and treat very suspect...


Allen

Walt White Coupe

Allen,