ncstingray

This response may not be taken very well by the OP or other forum members.
Why buy a "sports car" and expect it to ride like a luxury sedan? I buy them for the connected driving feel that sports cars are suppose to have. I am truly sorry for any butt hurt I may have caused.

musclecar6

Yeah that was my first thought too, when I noticed the harder rather than more compliant ride. As others have suggested, maybe other models like the GS or Z06 or base mag ride ( FE2) files were used instead of the Z51 files. The steering and handling were more dialed in as expected, just the ride went in the wrong direction.

Thunder22

And I like pie, and soup, and cake, all of which are irrelevant as are your points above. You still don't provide any justification for why the reversal should have been free.

If you had a blower installed, drove the car for 400 miles, and then realized that you didn't like the car with the blower, would you expect the dealer to remove it for free? Because there's no difference between installing/uninstalling software and installing/uninstalling hardware. They both take time and expertise, which the dealer charges money for, in order to make a profit, and keep his business running.

Good luck to you, if you get your money back I will be shocked, but I'll congratulate you none the less.

Thunder22

Did you ask them to try the install again being careful to install the correct files?

musclecar6

The stock Z51/ mag ride is a little on the firm side IMHO. That said, it’s not terrible, just a little firm in tour on less than mainly smooth roads. When GM recently announced an improved software suspension upgrade for various older C7 models, including the Z51/mag ride that I have, including a more compliant ride in tour and sport, I figured it sounds like just what the doctor ordered for those looking for better steering/handling AND a softer ride to boot at a small price ( $350). What could be better ?

village idiot

DSC is a clusterfuck. It's the glitchiest **** ever.

You can flash via wifi so you can make adjustments at the track between sessions!
Great! I flash my car and in track mode it's super soft. WTF?
Oh, yeah, there a glitch that makes PTM super soft when you flash it via wifi. WTF?
And we are constantly complaining about problems, they deny they exist until they come up with a solution- and then who knows what's going on.

New firmware! This solves everything!
3 days (literally later) oh, crap, we forgot to update the software.

It's still baffling to me (with no acceptable (attempted?) explanation) as to how the hell the base car and the Z07, with very different spring rates, weights, traction limits, etc, run the same tune

If you have all day, and incredible experience translating your driving experience into suspension settings, it's great. Otherwise, save your cash. My car still wallows on the street.

NSC5

The results the OP received weren't what he expected based upon the GM information release. I don't think it is possible to install the wrong update in the car since it is tied to the car VIN unless the dealership entered the wrong info and that should appear as part of the printout.

I do wonder if the update installed at all? If the OP was expecting smoother but had the same software as originally installed then it would be perceived as stiffer/rougher. It is too late now but the best thing would have been to go back to the dealer and try to drive another vehicle with the older software still installed to see whether the new update does create stiffer handling for some vehicles in tour mode. The new software is different by model/suspension setup so it is always possible there is a flaw in some of the software update packages.

I have been thinking about getting this update for my 2016 Z06 in the Spring because I do use the tour setting for softer suspension on a lot of roads in the area which are somewhere in quality between European standard and downtown Baghdad and a little more suspension compliance would help. With the ultra low profile ZP tires on the Z06 I wouldn't expect miracles since normally the tire sidewall compliance is a big part of the handling but some improvement would be nice.

I am getting ready to order a 2018 pickup to replace my current 2006 model and I am probably going with a GMC Sierra HD crewcab because I like the front end styling better than Chevrolet but if I end up with a Chevy (because I prefer that local dealer) it will be a 3500 single rear wheel 1 ton instead of the 2500 model because with the Silverado you are stuck with 20" wheels and fairly low profile tires for the 3/4 ton model while the GMC allows you to downgrade to 18" wheels with significantly more tire sidewall and that tire/wheel combo provides a much better ride empty.

musclecar6

Yes there could be a flaw in the software update package or the wrong files were sent or maybe the tech didn’t follow the correct install proceedures etc. If GM wants me to go back to the dealer and have them do another install to be sure, great. They can even drive the car before and after install to compare. Seems like a reasonable effort to nail down what’s going on.

Thunder22

That makes a lot of sense.

roadbike56

musclecar6, I really appreciate your posting this as I was considering this change and we live in the same state (similar road conditions). Also, I deal with the same dealer name but a different location for all my service.
Based on your post, I think I'll pass on any changes for now. I'm pretty well satisfied with the ride as it is.
For what it's worth, I don't think the charges are unfair. It's GM's policy to charge for software when it's a change. If you were reflashing the same edition software due to a problem, that would be different (warranty issue). But I understand Hendrick having to charge you for the software for each install. For what it's worth, Lexus does the same thing.

Hoonose

GM sure ain't Amazon!

We ordered a memory foam mattress topper last year. It was too soft and we wanted to send it back to Amazon. I had to call them direct and they told us 'we can't take a mattress back as a return'. Whoa!

So they returned me my money and we still have the topper!

musclecar6

Hendrick’s has to pay GM for the software as it’s a part number. For the update software, the vette owner has to reimburse the dealer ( Hendrick’s in this example) $350 for the software and the install is free ( charged back to GM at .3 hrs labor if the info we read is correct). The concern I have is if the owner isn’t satisfied with the update, he has to pay GM effectively another $350 for the same software that came with the car, cause it’s also a part number that GM charges Hendrick’s for. Hendrick’s charge of $135 for an hour’s labor to reinstall the OEM software is reasonable as they have to make money and I don’t have any problem with that.

Jeff V.

GM doesn't charge dealers for software 'parts'. It's not standard procedure to do so, but a dealer could update every module in the car to the latest revision available without GM charging them a dime.

The mag ride change is a special case because it's an accessory. The dealer calls Techline, and Techline provides the dealer with a VCI (vehicle configuration index) number. The VCI number overrides the normal programming routines and allows them to load a non-stock calibration into the vehicle. Then Techline bills the dealer through the accessory program.

Putting the car back to stock should have been a matter of logging into TIS2Web and loading whatever stock calibration was available for the suspension module. If you don't enter the VCI number, the list of available calibrations will revert back to stock automatically.

The labor charge is justified, but charging for the stock software is not.

Bill Dearborn

Best place to start with a complaint is at the top. It is amazing how people respond when the boss is looking for an answer to an issue. You will get a quicker yes or no Vs meh.

Bill

musclecar6

Thank you. Maybe GM will come back from the e-mail I sent Mary Barra on this issue with a similar response.

Dif

As other pointed out, they use an update Specifically for your VIN # with Z51 suspension.
That's why I think they did not install the update correctly.
The car can still be driven, but the shocks and steering go almost full stiff.

Myself w/Z51 MSRC, and a friend w/base MSRC have the DSC Controllers installed.
We both have a more compliant ride with Improved Handling.
And at one point my friend installed an update wrong and it did exactly what you experienced, rough/stiffer ride.
When that happens it Bricks the controller.
I helped him re-install the update correctly and all was well.

Also reviews from others with the GM update experienced a softer and more controlled ride.
Bottom line is this update is not only about getting a softer ride.
It's for a more compliant controlled ride no matter how smooth or rough the Road or Track surface is.
The days of a stiffer suspension for better handling is over.
That's why GM and DSC are getting better lap times with this advanced/updated programing with the MSRC system.

tome

Note the 8-10 hr wait time .... car can be driven

Tadge answered:
One good thing about this Ask Tadge feature on the Forum is that you don’t just get access to me, but to the whole Corvette team as well as supporting organizations like GM Performance Accessories. Many of you are familiar with Jim Mero, our ride and handling development engineer who developed the calibration upgrade packages being offered through GM Performance Accessories. I asked him to clarify the whole picture in his own words. And here he is:

Before I get into the rollout of the calibration, and the questions asked, some history might be in order in an effort to make a very complicated situation clearer.

I have read through almost all the threads on the Corvette Forum about the MRC aftermarket calibrations. Overwhelming is an understatement. This is a complex situation and deserves a proper answer, which isn’t short.

With Magnetorheological (Magnetic Ride Control/MagneRide/MRC), we continue to learn and improve as we develop our higher performance variants. Over the past year and a half new tools have been created to help us better analyze data recorded on the bench, on the road, and on the track. Utilization of this data analysis was significant during my tuning of the ZR1. While tuning the ZR1 I realized a revolutionary change that not only improved track performance but also ride quality and handling in Tour and Sport. A change so significant I felt obligated to not only roll it into future model years for all MRC Corvettes, but also make it available to all customers already in possession of a 7th generation Corvette with MRC. While I wish we could roll these out immediately for all, it takes a significant amount of work and time to execute each calibration. Tour, Sport, and Track for each Corvette MRC chassis package have their own individual calibrations. None are shared between any 2 variants. All must go the same extensive validation process as a production implementation. All will be part of the 2019 production fitment. Including the ZR1 I revised 21 total new calibrations by September, 2017. The cadence and roll out of the new MRC calibrations for Chevrolet Performance were determined in the order they were completed.

I will try to address/clarify the questions from the “Ask Tadge” post as well as the ones I am already anticipating based on this reply, including the ones that I recently read in forum posts.

Why is there no track calibration offered for Z51?

As I stated above, I needed to release 21 calibrations for the 2019 production fitment which include the Chevrolet Performance upgrades. Time allotment was not conducive for the implementation of a Z51 track calibration. A new Z51 track calibration is on my “things to do” list, but my “task at hand” list is much longer.
If you’re wondering how could the base car plus F55 (MRC) include a new track calibration but not the Z51, the answer is; like the base car, the base + F55 was never intended to be a track car. So the calibration in track mode is really a hybrid between Sport and Track, something like a Super Sport.

Do the 2017-2018 cars including the GS already have the enhanced calibrations or will they be a part of a future update?

Model year 2017 MRC vehicles were the same as 2016 with the exception of the Grand Sports which did reflect a partial representation of the revised tuning philosophy.
Also included for 2017 production was a new Track calibration for Z06/Z07 (minus the temperature compensation as discussed below).
As I stated above, all 21 2019 production including Chevrolet performance calibrations were completed in September, 2017. This was approximately 8 months after the 2018 calibrations were released for production.
When we hit our 2018 production release dates, the progress I made thus far was released for 2018 production in Tour and Sport for: Z51, Grand Sport Base, Grand Sport w/Z07, Z06 Base, and Z06/Z07.
So yes, Chevrolet Performance will be offering new calibrations for all 2017 and 2018 MRC equipped vehicles including Grand Sport, expect to see the remaining models released in Q1 2018.

What about the car needing to sit for 8 to 10 hours after the flash?

The car can be driven immediately after the flash. It does not have to sit at the dealership. The temperature compensation will not be normalized until the vehicle has sat for 8 to 10 hours. Where and when this happens is irrelevant. When the vehicle sits for 8 to 10 hours, the temperature compensation will then be normalized.


Confusion about the cost to the customer.

$350.00 MSRP, which includes the calibration and installation labor.


Confusion about dealer knowledge about the calibrations.

I have contacted the Executive Director of Global Accessories/Perf Variants/Parts & Motorsports. After receiving an overwhelming number of questions and seeing the customer feedback on the dealer experience with these, Chevrolet Performance is providing an updated dealer bulletin as quickly as possible.


Now I will attempt to go through each MRC package and give a short explanation of the benefits included in the Chevrolet Performance offerings. Again, each chassis package and mode has its own individual calibrations. None are shared between any of them.

Tour Mode

Model(s)

2016 to 2018 Base+F55
2014 to 2018 Z51
2017 to 2018 Grand Sport
2017 to 2018 Grand Sport w/Z07
2015 to 2018 Z06
2015 to 2018 Z06w/Z07
For 2018 (except Base+F55) MRC vehicles, please see footnote

Changes

Major Improvements in impact isolation and integration – Impacts are softer, and less harsh. When the vehicle does encounter rough roads, the structural feel is greatly improved.
Major improvements in ride motions at all speeds. Much more balanced and less abrupt. The car is more poised in compression and rebound, resulting in a flatter ride. This is not implying stiffer body motions, but the vehicle exhibits more a more composed ride.
Parking lot and low speed (25mph and less) the ride motions are more compliant and less jarring.
Handling is more responsive and much more precise. The response of the vehicle is more exact reacting to driver steering inputs.
For 2018 vehicles (except Base+F55), some of the final improvements being implemented for the MRC upgrades were part of the 2018 production release. Thus the improvements for 2018 vehicles are also very significant but not quite as dramatic as the 2014 to 2017 packages.


Sport Mode

Model(s)

2016 to 2018 Base+F55
2014 to 2018 Z51
2017 to 2018 Grand Sport
2017 to 2018 Grand Sport w/Z07
2015 to 2018 Z06
2015 to 2018 Z06w/Z07
For 2018 MRC vehicles (except Base+F55), please see footnote

Changes

Sport also has major improvements in Impact isolation and integration. With these new improvements the impact isolation and integration is better than the Tour mode with the original production calibrations. Impacts are softer, and less harsh. When the vehicle does encounter rough roads, the structural feel is greatly improved.
Major improvements in ride motions at all speeds. Much more balanced and less abrupt. The car is more poised in compression and rebound, resulting in a flatter ride. The Sport mode exhibits significantly more body motion control that Tour.
Handling is more responsive and much more precise. The response of the vehicle is more exact responding to the driver steering inputs weather using Sport mode as a daily driver, or carving through a mountain road.
Parking lot and low speed (25mph and less) the ride motions are more compliant and less jarring.
For 2018 vehicles (except Base+F55), some of the final improvements being implemented for the MRC upgrades were part of the 2018 production release. Thus the improvements for 2018 vehicles are also very significant but not quite as dramatic as the 2014 to 2017 packages.


Track Mode

Model(s)

Grand Sport (FE6) and Z06 (FE6)

Changes

The new track mode is better balanced and response to driver inputs are much more linear near and at the limit of adhesion. With the new Track calibration, the redistribution of the damping in the body, wheel, and handling algorithms makes the car more fluid as it is cornered. The rotation of the car is more precise at initial turn in, and maintains its path through the turn. As the driver rolls into the throttle, vehicle heading is better sustained.
The new Track calibrations increases driver confidence. This, coupled with the vehicle being better balanced during the cornering maneuvers resulted in an average of a 1 second lap time improvement over the original calibration.
Revised temperature compensation tables. As the fluid heated up, during long continuous and repeated runs, sometimes over 100 degrees Celsius (212 degrees Fahrenheit), the damping is effected, not only on an absolute basis, but also the front to rear effecting the balance of the car. New temperature compensation tables were developed to make the balance of the car much more consistent regardless of the damper fluid temperature.

Model(s)

Grand Sport w/Z07 and Z06 w/Z07

Changes

Both of these foundation Track calibrations are included in 2017 production.
The foundation calibrations are solid performers as indicated in the Z06 w/Z07 VIR lap times of 1:55.95 on the full course and 2:39.77 on the Grand Course. The lap times for Grand Sport are 1:59 on the Full Course and 2:45 on the Grand Course.
As explained in the Grand Sport FE6 and Z06 FE6 Track mode paragraph, the new temperature compensation tables are now included in these Track calibrations as part of the Chevrolet Performance offerings and 2019 production.


Upon the completion of the track calibrations I rotated several of our track development engineers with different driving styles through the cars. The result is what the best balance is based on each driving style. If more understeer is desired, this can be easily accomplished by purchasing and installing

Front Stabilizer bushings (Z51 w/MRC, Grand Sport non Z07, Z06, Z06/Z07) part number 84402110 (available February 2018)
Rear Stabilizer bushings (Z51 w/MRC and Z06 w/Z07) part number 23305975
The bushings are easy to install and cost about $6.00 each


If even more precision is desired, Chevrolet Performance also offers lower control arms with stiffer bushing.

Well, that’s a long explanation, but it’s a complicated situation which is why we assume the question was over overwhelmingly voted for and asked in the “Ask Tadge” forum.

Rebel Yell

I sent an email to her about a problem many of us are having (warble noise) from the ring gear/pinion. I'm quite sure she didn't see the email, but a customer service rep. contacted me and was quite helpful. I said all that to say, you will be contacted. Good luck.

BTW, it doesn't surprise me at all that Hendrick's charged you full price to change it back. I tried to deal with one of his dealerships, and it was a goat roping.

musclecar6

Well that’s certainly a reasonable explanation. Since I was the first one to get the install at my dealership, it may well have not been done properly. As I go along with return communication from GM, I will pursue the possibility of incorrect install with them. Thanks for all the helpful feedback.

John Harry

I once worked for a company that made patio doors. One day we got a call from the CEO of our parent company (Fortune 125) that a little old lady wrote him about a door handle that broke. Turns out it was about 30 years old, but we managed to get her a free replacement quicker than you'd believe. Fear creates great customer service.