Hill Start Assist!
03-09-2018, 06:08 PM
#41
Safety Car
Member Since: Feb 2016
Location: Bainbridge Island WA
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Thanks. Let's see. I've had 17 sticks and six autos in over 50 years of driving so far, so I think I will ignore your needlessly insulting and specious advice. I simply use every feature I can, and since the ebrake is DESIGNED to work this way, when it is appropriate, I use it. I find so-called "Hill assist" to be a bit flaky and I don't trust it. I've never head it in any of the sticks I have had previously. Of course, I live in Seattle rather than Kansas so this feature is of more use to me than it is to you flatlanders.
03-09-2018, 06:40 PM
#42
Melting Slicks
I mis-spoke when I used the term "don't agree." I should have said I've never experienced what you described. My clutch engagement is instant, and I don't ever feel even the slightest "tug."
I'm as puzzled by these differing reports as anyone. I just don't understand how so many people have never experienced any interference from HSA, never even feel it, and others report themselves stalling the engine because of it.
I suppose it's always possible that there are differences between cars, but I think it's got to be primarily a technique issue for the most part, and/or people not as comfortable or proficient w/ manual transmissions. I have seen folks who've been driving manuals all their lives, but are still not what I would call proficient.
BTW, I do have a tech background, as well as a fair amount of track time in my day, but I have never driven professionally.
I'm as puzzled by these differing reports as anyone. I just don't understand how so many people have never experienced any interference from HSA, never even feel it, and others report themselves stalling the engine because of it.
I suppose it's always possible that there are differences between cars, but I think it's got to be primarily a technique issue for the most part, and/or people not as comfortable or proficient w/ manual transmissions. I have seen folks who've been driving manuals all their lives, but are still not what I would call proficient.
BTW, I do have a tech background, as well as a fair amount of track time in my day, but I have never driven professionally.
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Woodson (03-09-2018)
03-09-2018, 06:53 PM
#43
As this discussion progresses, I'm becoming more and more convinced it's a difference in cars. I haven't altered my technique one bit, and just never run into it in either my '14 or my '18. I had it in an '08 BMW M3 as well, and it was never an issue.
I also agree I don't need it, but it doesn't bother me at all.
I also agree I don't need it, but it doesn't bother me at all.
Last edited by Foosh; 03-09-2018 at 06:54 PM.
03-09-2018, 10:56 PM
#44
Drifting
According to the manual HSA also prevents you from rolling forward with the following caveat:
HSA will not activate if the vehicle is in a drive gear and facing downhill or if the vehicle is facing uphill and in R (Reverse).
HSA will not activate if the vehicle is in a drive gear and facing downhill or if the vehicle is facing uphill and in R (Reverse).
Last edited by Grand Slam; 03-09-2018 at 10:58 PM.
03-10-2018, 02:34 PM
#45
We don't know the M7 skill level of those that are routinely using the ebrake as a matter of routine when driving.
I think some might benefit from a Bondurant style, workshop. The perceptions/experiences that some are describing are mind boggling to interpretation. Hill Street Blues??
I can't think of an instance where I'd need the ebrake while driving my M7. But that's just me.
.
I think some might benefit from a Bondurant style, workshop. The perceptions/experiences that some are describing are mind boggling to interpretation. Hill Street Blues??
I can't think of an instance where I'd need the ebrake while driving my M7. But that's just me.
.
Last edited by Skid Row Joe; 03-10-2018 at 09:18 PM. Reason: clarifying. ....
03-10-2018, 07:18 PM
#46
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Oct 1999
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What I have noticed is that sometimes HSA applies a little more brake than other times. When that happens I tend to stall the car unless I notice the extra resistance as I am letting out the clutch and push it in a little to get some slip while adding more throttle. Based on what I have noticed when it happens I suspect it varies with how hard I am applying the brake while the car is stopped.
Bill
Bill
03-10-2018, 08:27 PM
#47
Burning Brakes
What I have noticed is that sometimes HSA applies a little more brake than other times. When that happens I tend to stall the car unless I notice the extra resistance as I am letting out the clutch and push it in a little to get some slip while adding more throttle. Based on what I have noticed when it happens I suspect it varies with how hard I am applying the brake while the car is stopped.
Bill
Bill
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Superstar555 (03-11-2018)
03-10-2018, 09:02 PM
#48
Le Mans Master
We don't know the M7 skill level of those that are routinely using the ebrake as a matter of routine when driving.
I think some might benefit from a Bondurant style, workshop. The perceptions/experiences that some are describing are mind boggling to interpretation. Hill Street Blues??
I can't think of an instance where I'd need it when driving my M7. But that's just me.
I think some might benefit from a Bondurant style, workshop. The perceptions/experiences that some are describing are mind boggling to interpretation. Hill Street Blues??
I can't think of an instance where I'd need it when driving my M7. But that's just me.
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Skid Row Joe (03-10-2018)
03-10-2018, 09:15 PM
#49
walleyejack,
I cannot help but agree with you. Some of the elderly have no business attempting to drive the M7, IMHO.
Learning to hang-it-up, is hard for some. I hate to see it, but it's a fact of life. Some are better off with an automatic trans.
I posted soon after my purchase of my new 2017 3LT M7, that because of the fact that it came equipped with HUD, that those of us with hearing challenges were still able to safely drive an M7 - simply because we could know our C7's engine RPM, when taking off in 1st, without the need to take our eyes off the road. Since many of the elderly are in fact hard of hearing, and unable to hear the engine, the M7 C7 when properly equipped with HUD, can keep the elderly on the road.
The hard of hearing may in fact be handicapped when driving an M7. There's no other way to couch it, in all fairness.
.
I cannot help but agree with you. Some of the elderly have no business attempting to drive the M7, IMHO.
Learning to hang-it-up, is hard for some. I hate to see it, but it's a fact of life. Some are better off with an automatic trans.
I posted soon after my purchase of my new 2017 3LT M7, that because of the fact that it came equipped with HUD, that those of us with hearing challenges were still able to safely drive an M7 - simply because we could know our C7's engine RPM, when taking off in 1st, without the need to take our eyes off the road. Since many of the elderly are in fact hard of hearing, and unable to hear the engine, the M7 C7 when properly equipped with HUD, can keep the elderly on the road.
The hard of hearing may in fact be handicapped when driving an M7. There's no other way to couch it, in all fairness.
.
Last edited by Skid Row Joe; 03-10-2018 at 09:20 PM. Reason: typo.......
03-11-2018, 10:54 AM
#50
Le Mans Master
walleyejack,
I cannot help but agree with you. Some of the elderly have no business attempting to drive the M7, IMHO.
Learning to hang-it-up, is hard for some. I hate to see it, but it's a fact of life. Some are better off with an automatic trans.
I posted soon after my purchase of my new 2017 3LT M7, that because of the fact that it came equipped with HUD, that those of us with hearing challenges were still able to safely drive an M7 - simply because we could know our C7's engine RPM, when taking off in 1st, without the need to take our eyes off the road. Since many of the elderly are in fact hard of hearing, and unable to hear the engine, the M7 C7 when properly equipped with HUD, can keep the elderly on the road.
The hard of hearing may in fact be handicapped when driving an M7. There's no other way to couch it, in all fairness.
.
I cannot help but agree with you. Some of the elderly have no business attempting to drive the M7, IMHO.
Learning to hang-it-up, is hard for some. I hate to see it, but it's a fact of life. Some are better off with an automatic trans.
I posted soon after my purchase of my new 2017 3LT M7, that because of the fact that it came equipped with HUD, that those of us with hearing challenges were still able to safely drive an M7 - simply because we could know our C7's engine RPM, when taking off in 1st, without the need to take our eyes off the road. Since many of the elderly are in fact hard of hearing, and unable to hear the engine, the M7 C7 when properly equipped with HUD, can keep the elderly on the road.
The hard of hearing may in fact be handicapped when driving an M7. There's no other way to couch it, in all fairness.
.
03-11-2018, 02:14 PM
#51
I believe it has to do with the slope of the hill.. My steep driveway will see it hold harder and longer than the very slight incline at the end of my street. Might be I hold the brake firmer on the steep driveway versus the slight slope at the stop sign. Not exactly sure how, but angle does seem to affect the HSA duration.
Bottom line: you're right! The steeper the hill, the harder the brake application from the HSA system. The 10 degree hill needed only clutch to begin moving, while the 37 degree hill needed significant application of the gas in addition to the clutch to get things moving.
For the very steep hill, I found it easier to move my right foot to the gas pedal and wait for the HSA to disengage completely and then "catch" the car with the clutch as it started to roll backward. Trying to drive thru the brake on this hill requires too much gas and too much clutch wear for my comfort.
03-11-2018, 03:04 PM
#53
Never seen that either, even on the steepest hills. Mine releases immediately w/ very little throttle, regardless of slope angle. It seems increasingly likely there have to be car variances. It also just occurred to me it could have something to do w/ brake pad condition.
Last edited by Foosh; 03-11-2018 at 03:06 PM.
03-11-2018, 05:21 PM
#54
HUD is invaluable because there's no taking your eyes off the road. Looking down at the tach and up takes your eyes off the road. Do you not use or have HUD?
03-11-2018, 05:28 PM
#55
I've not experienced the HA not releasing, and leading to killing the engine, as at least one poster is reporting.
I ask, are you sure that your use of the ebrake as your hill assist, isn't what's leading to killing your engine?
I ask, are you sure that your use of the ebrake as your hill assist, isn't what's leading to killing your engine?
03-11-2018, 05:52 PM
#56
Le Mans Master
03-11-2018, 07:50 PM
#59
Le Mans Master
Actually I find it disconcerting because it is in my line of sight--all the time not just when I want to reference it. I realize I am probably the only person who feels this way about HUD, but that is my perception.
03-11-2018, 08:04 PM
#60
Yah, it's something that I took to rather quickly, given my advanced age. When I realized that it greatly assisted me in starting out in 1st gear from a dead stop - I was in. The convertible top up is so darned quiet, I cannot hardly hear the engine. I have the non-NPP exhaust set to Track too! The hatchbacks are A LOT louder in the echo chamber - unlike the convertibles.