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Not sure if I've been actively searching for information on catch cans or if I've serendipitously stumbled across information on catch cans but I've seen enough threads and videos about the amount of oil that gets inside the fuel intake that can cause long-term and long-lasting problems for our engines. I have a 2018 Grand Sport with the LT1 engine and I've seen enough videos and read enough to have formulated the opinion that it's possible that even LT1 engines can have oil ingestion into the fuel intake. I definitely don't like the idea of oil getting in there causing coking and other problems. I don't know if I have oil in my intake (I am anxious to look). So my question for the CF community are the following:
Can a LT1 engine benefit from a catch can?
Will installing a catch can void the manufacturer's warranty? I presume it would.
What are the benefits of installing a catch can?
What is the downside of installing a catch can?
Besides installing a catch can what can be done to prevent oil ingestion?
If you, the CF community, collectively think catch cans are beneficial, can you point me (and others like me) in the direction of a good catch can maker/brand/model?
Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge on the topic. I look forward to hearing what you have to say.
All you need to know: Doesn't need it, will outright void your warranty, and lost of people are eager to sell them to you. Could work in theory but prevents a problem (valve coking) that no one on the board has ever experienced or documented in a Chevrolet engine, let alone a Corvette, let alone one driven the amount most Corvettes are. So save it for a radar detector or cross pipe or drag radials or air filter.
I know it won't damage the car. I don't know if it will help the car either though. As far as the coking issue, best if you do some research on how the coking actually occurs and you will see the catch can has nothing to do with it. I have one installed on my 17GS just because I don't like oil ingested into my intake manifold and gumming up my throttle body.. not that I believe it will harm anything.. I just prefer it cleaner is all.
If you are going to turbo r blower on the car. YES it will the stock factory pcv system will not get the higher pressure from the crank case & you dam will the least will blow out a front r rear are both seals.
Not a nice are easy job to fix at all. Now you going to granny drive the car or not really dog the car you should be good.. Robert
GM does not have a magical solution to the fact that DI does not have any gas going over the large hot intake valves to wash off PCV "stuff" as it did in all prior Vettes.
The Engine like all has a PVC system that pulls oil and other "stuff" into the intake manifold.
How bad is the resulting Coking, as it's called. Tadge says it's "only cosmetic" but it occurs!
How much can a Catch can help? Exactly how much it helps is debatable but better the one ounce/1000 miles I collected and dumped periodically in my 2014 Z51 for 3 years (others report collecting and dumping the same or more.) Removed the "can" when I sold the 2014 and put it on my Grand Sport. I am colleting 25% to 1/3 of what I did. GM has "improved" the system in new dry sumps by dumping some crankcase oil and stuff back into the engine. But still collecting and dumping some.
Want details of the issue, lots of Threads and I cover why I installed, and the issues in this 19 page PDF with my research and logic: http://netwelding.com/Catch_Can.pdf
Will it void a warranty, IMO a single outlet can does not harm so I don't worry about it. Others do. Your choice
GM does not have a magical solution to the fact that DI does not have any gas going over the large hot intake valves to wash off PCV "stuff" as it did in all prior Vettes.
The Engine like all has a PVC system that pulls oil and other "stuff" into the intake manifold.
How bad is the resulting Coking, as it's called. Tadge says it's "only cosmetic" but it occurs!
How much can a Catch can help? Exactly how much it helps is debatable but better the one ounce/1000 miles I collected and dumped periodically in my 2014 Z51 for 3 years (others report collecting and dumping the same or more.) Removed the "can" when I sold the 2014 and put it on my Grand Sport. I am colleting 25% to 1/3 of what I did. GM has "improved" the system in new dry sumps by dumping some crankcase oil and stuff back into the engine. But still collecting and dumping some.
Want details of the issue, lots of Threads and I cover why I installed, and the issues in this 19 page PDF with my research and logic: http://netwelding.com/Catch_Can.pdf
Will it void a warranty, IMO a single outlet can does not harm so I don't worry about it. Others do. Your choice
I bought a UPR DUAL VALVE Oil Catch Can for my 2015 Z51, a few years ago...never installed it, heard so much controversy about its warranty issues , despite proof it really works...and here it sits brand new , in original mfg's box, sealed , in my closet....just too lazy to advertise it...but if your interested, pd $ 330.00, for it , and looking to find it a new home , for a reasonable offer. PM me if any interest. Can send you picures ,original invoice etc if needed.
I just ordered a 2019 LBR GS and have no interest in using it.
^^^
I only paid ~$150 for my machined aluminum Elite can that has parts the screw together making it easy to take apart dump oil and clean! Got my monies worth as that was late 2013 and have used it ever since and now on my Grand Sport collecting and dumping some of the PCV oil before it gets to the hot intake valves. Perhaps someone else will take you up on the offer!
There are those who will tell you the tires will crack if driven at freezing temps. I don’t normally have to drive below 40 but this year had an pointment in town when it was 24 F. No cracks and tested braking by aggressively using the brakes as I approached a red light! No traffic so it was safe and it stopped fine! My point is, lots of forum folks say lots of things. Like any internet source you have to decide what to believe! Sure the traction is less and once it is 45 and below I use weather mode to have the nannies come on sooner!
If as someone said if you drive like a granny, never hit redline than probably a catch can won’t do you much good.
I hit redline frequently up to 3rd gear, occasionally hit 1+ “g” in turns and make well above 1 “g” stops. Perhaps when I get old will do it less frequently but for now only 75!
Someone around here is stating that the catch can will result in clean exhaust tips.
My Rolex keeps tigers away.
Will it void a warranty, IMO a single outlet can does not harm so I don't worry about it. Others do. Your choice
It's not "your choice" in the sense that it's not up to you, it's up the dealer, and the dealer says "void". I'm not saying a catch can WILL harm anything, I have no idea what the net impact is. But I know the dealer won't fix your piston if an unrelated failure occurs, and that's no fun.
After exhaustive testing for over two years, GM fixed this Direct Injection coking problem in 2016. They reduced the c7 2014-15 power train warranty from 5 years 100,000 miles to 5 years 60,000 miles. So after your get your valves decoked on your 2016-2019 at 60-80k miles, install a catch can, GM won't care.
On engines that have demonstrated DI valve coking problems, it's going to happen long before 60K miles. I had a 2007 Audi RS4, that required a walnut-shell cleaning at 20K miles.
There is zero evidence that catch cans solve the DI valve coking problem, or that it's oil in the intake that is primary causal factor. There is also no evidence that the LT1/5 engines are susceptible to the valve coking problem. Many very high-mileage ones have been examined showing no performance compromising valve issues.
LOL . . . like manual v. auto, and convertible v. coupe, they never die. At any rate, new folks show up on forums all the time, and it's polite forum etiquette to try to help them out.
It's not "your choice" in the sense that it's not up to you, it's up the dealer, and the dealer says "void". I'm not saying a catch can WILL harm anything, I have no idea what the net impact is. But I know the dealer won't fix your piston if an unrelated failure occurs, and that's no fun.
Perhaps my experience.
1) Got a cracked clutch plate covered by Chevy years ago about 6 months after buying new car by showing the dealers GM area service rep there was no abuse of the clutch. Flywheel and clutch looked new and the crack was no doubt caused by an internal defect.
2) The second one was more difficult and occurred a month after warranty was up my 260Z. I paid for a new rear end then examined the old one and found out why a ring gear bolt sheared and made a hole in the differential case cover! A metallurgical exam with macro pics showed it was a ductile failure of the bolt. The Datsun Service Manual said "check for the clips that secure the ring gear bolt heads, if you have the cover off." There was no required procedure to have the cover off and to do it meant dropping the differential from the car! A letter to Japan with a detailed report got the $1000+ I paid back in full! (I was managing a welding materials R&D Lab at the time so had the resources and macro cameras used for the pics!)
3) The last was about a year after I bought my C6 Vette and the air conditioner condenser sprung a leak. Dealer Service Manager said GM will not cover as it was "probably caused by a rock." Took the condenser home and examined the hole with a 10X magnifier (all I have now-no metallurgical lab!) and saw the hole was caused by internal pressure NOT a rock hitting it. I also saw the condenser was bent as if it had been dropped right and hit where the defect was! I suggested in a letter with a pic that it was dropped on a sharp object before it was put in the car and had a weak spot the finally failed.
The dealer service manager was very helpful (for a car I bought from Kerbeck) and discussed my letter with the GM area service rep and I got my full $800 paid back!
I'll defend my catch can if needed. If folks are not confident they can don't add one!
Pic of bent condenser. Included best magnification pic I could make but 10X loop clearly showed the hole was caused by pressure from the inside. Offered to have GM look at it but they did not ask!
LOL . . . like manual v. auto, and convertible v. coupe, they never die. At any rate, new folks show up on forums all the time, and it's polite forum etiquette to try to help them out.
Instructions on how to use the search engine would be a good first step.
Unfortunately, the search engine simply causes one to spend an awful lot of time searching through pages and pages of irrelevant stuff.
Jerry, you keep missing the point in these discussions. It's not about defending against warranty denials, it's about the fact that there is no evidence that they do anything for valve coking on DI engines, and no evidence that valve coking is even a problem on LT1/5 engines.
On DI engines that had significant valve coking problems (Audi, BMW, VW) in the past, catch cans did not prevent the problems. If it were that simple to solve, a viable catch system would have been easy for any manufacturer to design and incorporate, without having a crude can that had to be removed and emptied every so often.
First for the person who asked about "search" I gave up using! Like most searches it is not nearly as good Google! If you want to find something only in the Corvetteforum, Put that work first I the google search box then what you are looking for ! It finds it and other posts you may want very quickly! Frankly with 150 pages on my own website and about half not related to the business I do that myself!
Google is amazing if I add a page or even modify a page, Google spiders find it in a day!
Foosh, you hedge your words as I do as well. I'll make this one statement then folks can download my 19 page PDF that has all the research I have done as well as Tadge's statements and those quoted from the two GM small block engineers in a artilcle etc. I put that in post number 6 for the ~400 folks who visited this Thread and so far did do not post! Their choice!
My Info:
You're right no "evidence" that coking reduces power in an LT1 or LT5! That is because we don't have anyone with dyno #'s with and without or even with at 50,000+ miles.
GM has no magic solution to DI coking. Tadge is quoted as saying it's only cosmetic. The GM engineers say a bit more about the LT5 (reference in my PDF.)
Perhaps cosmetic does not mean much to some but it does myself and others who have put engines together and in my case seen the details Richard Petty's engine guy (when they were building them) took to have all internal surfaces smooth and properly contoured.
Cosmetic for some is like fingerprints on the Vette door opening to others! Those don't bother me but baked on oil on the intake valves does. I collected and dumped ~1 oz/1000 miles of oil in the catch can when it was on my Z51. That is 1 oz/1000 miles that did not get to the hot intake vales. How much would have baked on. Enough for Tadge to say it's only cosmetic!
I find it interesting that GM modified that latest dry sumps so I m collecting much less. Not zero. They didn't go through all that trouble because it was not an issue, IMO.
Perhaps had I never built that Olds engine for my first car, or more recently as this pic shows saw those shinny internals in the 502 cid engine I assembled for my street rod or those NASCAR engine internals etc. I would not care about "only cosmetic!" Being a gearhead since I was a teenager -NOT!
Again, Jerry, there's no evidence that your catch can is going to help you with your "cosmetic" issues either. If you read about DI, there no evidence that oil is the primary cause of coking.
Believe what you want if it makes you feel better! Since the EPA in ~1960's said no more dumping that "stuff" in the air as internal combustion engines did since it was invented (and I did with my '56 Chevy V8 ) with a "road draft tube!"
Perhaps you don't remember these gasoline ads when we had port injection where that PVC generated oil and other stuff baked on the hot intake valves! Whatever it is is still generated in the LT1 and LT5 engines and no gas to clean it off!
Perhaps you don't care about that "only cosmetic" but DI does not have the gas to wash the stuff off, whatever causes coking! (It's oil mist from the spinning crank etc but if you'd prefer to call in something else fine.) To each their own.
04-07-2018, 01:03 PM
Can LT1 engines benefit from a catch can?
