New '19 Z06 misfire, engine light blinking and code P0205
05-17-2018, 12:27 AM
#21
An update as of today: they had removed the SC, pulled and checked the injector and it checked out OK. No problem found sigh. They replaced the injector with a new injector and are putting the car back together today/tomorrow morning. I should know tomorrow if it throws the code again or not when they start it up and drive it around (valet mode engaged). Next step they will replace the ECM.
They did not replace the spark plug which I thought was odd, when the cylinder hasn't been firing. They supposedly were on the phone w/ GM and went through all the wiring verifying signal/connection etc.
As far as Lemon Law, I bought it from Criswell and had it courtesy delivered here. I read on the forum that Texas Lemon law requires to be purchased in Texas. Not sure if that's true or not, will have to research properly if this keeps going.
Just really bummed out. Taken the fun out of getting the car for sure.
They did not replace the spark plug which I thought was odd, when the cylinder hasn't been firing. They supposedly were on the phone w/ GM and went through all the wiring verifying signal/connection etc.
As far as Lemon Law, I bought it from Criswell and had it courtesy delivered here. I read on the forum that Texas Lemon law requires to be purchased in Texas. Not sure if that's true or not, will have to research properly if this keeps going.
Just really bummed out. Taken the fun out of getting the car for sure.
Initially they couldn't find anything wrong either, and they cleared the code. When I went to pick it up the next day, the CEL was back on with another set of codes. However, I didn't have the P0205 code, even though the symptoms you described were similar.
On the lemon law issue, I know there is one vocal forum member who keeps saying over and over again that Texas lemon law requires a car to be purchased in Texas, but I can't find any verification of that in the law anywhere. You should call an attorney who specializes in such things in Texas and don't believe what you read here.
Last edited by Foosh; 05-17-2018 at 12:28 AM.
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fenmotorsports (05-17-2018)
05-17-2018, 06:36 AM
#22
A lot of DTCs can be set due to a variety of issues but codes like P0205 are only set under very specific conditions. It is set when injector voltage is high when it should be pulled low (open injector actuating coil, connector or wiring fault), low when it should be high (internal injector short or short in the wiring), or the resistance is out of range (generally coil or connector issues).
Depending upon the failure mode that led to P0205 a DTC for sustained misfire along with a flashing CEL is probable since most of the faults will result in the injector not being pulsed or not responding to commands to "fire" the injector.
Replacing the injector itself will cure the issue if the fault was internal to the injector or a connector issue is resolved through the act of plugging in a different injector. The issues causing this code can be intermittent in nature since problems with the wiring harness or connector (and rarely the injector itself) can have intermittent open, shorted, or low resistance leakage to ground issues. Poor connector build quality and damaged wiring harness insulation (often due to improper placement during build) are common causes of these types of problems. In an earlier generation of diesel powered pickups many owners kept an ice pick as part of their tool kit to "repair" injector control issues on the road resulting from a poor quality set of connectors in the injection control circuit.
In rare cases a failing PCM will also cause this issue but typically that will be a hard and not intermittent failure.
Depending upon the failure mode that led to P0205 a DTC for sustained misfire along with a flashing CEL is probable since most of the faults will result in the injector not being pulsed or not responding to commands to "fire" the injector.
Replacing the injector itself will cure the issue if the fault was internal to the injector or a connector issue is resolved through the act of plugging in a different injector. The issues causing this code can be intermittent in nature since problems with the wiring harness or connector (and rarely the injector itself) can have intermittent open, shorted, or low resistance leakage to ground issues. Poor connector build quality and damaged wiring harness insulation (often due to improper placement during build) are common causes of these types of problems. In an earlier generation of diesel powered pickups many owners kept an ice pick as part of their tool kit to "repair" injector control issues on the road resulting from a poor quality set of connectors in the injection control circuit.
In rare cases a failing PCM will also cause this issue but typically that will be a hard and not intermittent failure.
Last edited by NSC5; 05-17-2018 at 06:38 AM.
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kenownr (05-17-2018)
05-17-2018, 07:54 AM
#23
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...nightmare.html
Feel for you, very similar story to mind, ended up trading in on another car, problem solved. Good luck.
Feel for you, very similar story to mind, ended up trading in on another car, problem solved. Good luck.
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fenmotorsports (05-17-2018)
05-17-2018, 08:17 AM
#24
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Your dealer had to go find the tools and parts to do the job? Sorry, that does not inspire me to believe the tech has ever done it before. The fact that they say they've been in touch w. GM (hopefully the tech center) is, however, encouraging.
Still a little early for "lemon-lawing" the car. Plus, at least one out of state buyer did have to go thru the state where they bought the car (Miss. resident, bought car in NJ, went thru lemon law in NJ). May not be the case w. TX. Something for you to check on, or maybe never!
Let's hope the problem gets solved! Unfortunately, Austin doesn't have quite as many Chev dealers to choose from as does Dallas or Houston. Good luck!!!
Still a little early for "lemon-lawing" the car. Plus, at least one out of state buyer did have to go thru the state where they bought the car (Miss. resident, bought car in NJ, went thru lemon law in NJ). May not be the case w. TX. Something for you to check on, or maybe never!
Let's hope the problem gets solved! Unfortunately, Austin doesn't have quite as many Chev dealers to choose from as does Dallas or Houston. Good luck!!!
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fenmotorsports (05-17-2018)
05-17-2018, 09:23 AM
#25
You would have to check the specifics for Texas but most state lemon laws balance the harm/protection for dealers and consumers and part of that equation is jurisdiction. I bought my Z06 for museum deliver through MacMulkin and part of the paperwork for it was the statement that any lemon law actions would take place in NH where the sale was recorded rather than in the home state of the buyer.
It is far too early for lemon law, the car version of divorce. If the dealership feels you are going down the lemon law route even if a reasonable and fast repair would have been available you have now put them in a position where they are going to be more concerned with potential lemon law issues than repairing the vehicle.
I suspect a very large percentage of GM lemon law actions could be avoided if the corporation and its corporate customer service group were more proactive in quickly getting vehicles transferred to a competent dealership before things really go bad.
Years ago I had a near lemon law case with a Chevrolet Impala because the dealership kept replacing the rear passenger side wheel speed sensor because of a traction control error that occurred every time it rained. The error code was actually for the DRIVER's side sensor and the dealer finally involved GM tech support when I objected to them preparing to replace a large portion of the rear wiring harness. The GM support engineer followed up with a phone call and laughed when he said GM had assumed dealership techs knew their left from their right but that turned out to be a bad assumption. GM did extend the bumper to bumper out to 5 years/100K because of that dealership issue so the GM mothership handled it well once they became involved in that service fiasco.
It is far too early for lemon law, the car version of divorce. If the dealership feels you are going down the lemon law route even if a reasonable and fast repair would have been available you have now put them in a position where they are going to be more concerned with potential lemon law issues than repairing the vehicle.
I suspect a very large percentage of GM lemon law actions could be avoided if the corporation and its corporate customer service group were more proactive in quickly getting vehicles transferred to a competent dealership before things really go bad.
Years ago I had a near lemon law case with a Chevrolet Impala because the dealership kept replacing the rear passenger side wheel speed sensor because of a traction control error that occurred every time it rained. The error code was actually for the DRIVER's side sensor and the dealer finally involved GM tech support when I objected to them preparing to replace a large portion of the rear wiring harness. The GM support engineer followed up with a phone call and laughed when he said GM had assumed dealership techs knew their left from their right but that turned out to be a bad assumption. GM did extend the bumper to bumper out to 5 years/100K because of that dealership issue so the GM mothership handled it well once they became involved in that service fiasco.
05-17-2018, 09:28 AM
#26
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Thread Starter
A lot of DTCs can be set due to a variety of issues but codes like P0205 are only set under very specific conditions. It is set when injector voltage is high when it should be pulled low (open injector actuating coil, connector or wiring fault), low when it should be high (internal injector short or short in the wiring), or the resistance is out of range (generally coil or connector issues).
Depending upon the failure mode that led to P0205 a DTC for sustained misfire along with a flashing CEL is probable since most of the faults will result in the injector not being pulsed or not responding to commands to "fire" the injector.
Replacing the injector itself will cure the issue if the fault was internal to the injector or a connector issue is resolved through the act of plugging in a different injector. The issues causing this code can be intermittent in nature since problems with the wiring harness or connector (and rarely the injector itself) can have intermittent open, shorted, or low resistance leakage to ground issues. Poor connector build quality and damaged wiring harness insulation (often due to improper placement during build) are common causes of these types of problems. In an earlier generation of diesel powered pickups many owners kept an ice pick as part of their tool kit to "repair" injector control issues on the road resulting from a poor quality set of connectors in the injection control circuit.
In rare cases a failing PCM will also cause this issue but typically that will be a hard and not intermittent failure.
Depending upon the failure mode that led to P0205 a DTC for sustained misfire along with a flashing CEL is probable since most of the faults will result in the injector not being pulsed or not responding to commands to "fire" the injector.
Replacing the injector itself will cure the issue if the fault was internal to the injector or a connector issue is resolved through the act of plugging in a different injector. The issues causing this code can be intermittent in nature since problems with the wiring harness or connector (and rarely the injector itself) can have intermittent open, shorted, or low resistance leakage to ground issues. Poor connector build quality and damaged wiring harness insulation (often due to improper placement during build) are common causes of these types of problems. In an earlier generation of diesel powered pickups many owners kept an ice pick as part of their tool kit to "repair" injector control issues on the road resulting from a poor quality set of connectors in the injection control circuit.
In rare cases a failing PCM will also cause this issue but typically that will be a hard and not intermittent failure.
It seems more likely it's a harness or connection than the actual components failing but we'll see.
At 7am this morning I started getting emails from Onstar that there was an error w/ the engine, so I assume the replacement of the injector did not fix it. Though I have not had that confirmed to me yet, just assuming from the Onstar email so far.
05-17-2018, 09:34 AM
#27
Advanced
Thread Starter
You would have to check the specifics for Texas but most state lemon laws balance the harm/protection for dealers and consumers and part of that equation is jurisdiction. I bought my Z06 for museum deliver through MacMulkin and part of the paperwork for it was the statement that any lemon law actions would take place in NH where the sale was recorded rather than in the home state of the buyer.
It is far too early for lemon law, the car version of divorce. If the dealership feels you are going down the lemon law route even if a reasonable and fast repair would have been available you have now put them in a position where they are going to be more concerned with potential lemon law issues than repairing the vehicle.
I suspect a very large percentage of GM lemon law actions could be avoided if the corporation and its corporate customer service group were more proactive in quickly getting vehicles transferred to a competent dealership before things really go bad.
Years ago I had a near lemon law case with a Chevrolet Impala because the dealership kept replacing the rear passenger side wheel speed sensor because of a traction control error that occurred every time it rained. The error code was actually for the DRIVER's side sensor and the dealer finally involved GM tech support when I objected to them preparing to replace a large portion of the rear wiring harness. The GM support engineer followed up with a phone call and laughed when he said GM had assumed dealership techs knew their left from their right but that turned out to be a bad assumption. GM did extend the bumper to bumper out to 5 years/100K because of that dealership issue so the GM mothership handled it well once they became involved in that service fiasco.
It is far too early for lemon law, the car version of divorce. If the dealership feels you are going down the lemon law route even if a reasonable and fast repair would have been available you have now put them in a position where they are going to be more concerned with potential lemon law issues than repairing the vehicle.
I suspect a very large percentage of GM lemon law actions could be avoided if the corporation and its corporate customer service group were more proactive in quickly getting vehicles transferred to a competent dealership before things really go bad.
Years ago I had a near lemon law case with a Chevrolet Impala because the dealership kept replacing the rear passenger side wheel speed sensor because of a traction control error that occurred every time it rained. The error code was actually for the DRIVER's side sensor and the dealer finally involved GM tech support when I objected to them preparing to replace a large portion of the rear wiring harness. The GM support engineer followed up with a phone call and laughed when he said GM had assumed dealership techs knew their left from their right but that turned out to be a bad assumption. GM did extend the bumper to bumper out to 5 years/100K because of that dealership issue so the GM mothership handled it well once they became involved in that service fiasco.
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NSC5 (05-17-2018)
05-17-2018, 02:46 PM
#28
I really appreciate your technical insight, thank you. I will share it with the techs. What you're saying makes sense to me, and that's why I was happy it was consistently throwing the code now, so that it could be traced easier.
It seems more likely it's a harness or connection than the actual components failing but we'll see.
At 7am this morning I started getting emails from Onstar that there was an error w/ the engine, so I assume the replacement of the injector did not fix it. Though I have not had that confirmed to me yet, just assuming from the Onstar email so far.
It seems more likely it's a harness or connection than the actual components failing but we'll see.
At 7am this morning I started getting emails from Onstar that there was an error w/ the engine, so I assume the replacement of the injector did not fix it. Though I have not had that confirmed to me yet, just assuming from the Onstar email so far.
Just by unpluggiing and replugging can fix an issue like that. Hopefully they got it.
05-17-2018, 04:50 PM
#29
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They did call an hour later and say the problem is definitely still there. Big brother Onstar doesn't lie.
They ordered an ECM, and sounds like they'll install it Monday. My hopes aren't high on this changing anything.
I contacted GM Customer Service and a "Senior CS Manager" is supposed to return my call and they gave me a case number. Perhaps they'll take my car back and give me a ZR1 for the same price (yeah right)
I contacted Texas DMV and they said it would be Maryland Lemon Law.
Maryland DMV was already closed, will call them tomorrow. Paperwork says I have to notify GM in writing of the problem. As far as the 30 day rule goes, I'll be at 17 days by Monday.
Like Ozzstar and NSC5 said, I too had hoped even act of unplugging and re-plugging in the connectors would have fixed it. The only good thing in all of this, is it is consistent and not intermittent. That would be even more frustrating.
They ordered an ECM, and sounds like they'll install it Monday. My hopes aren't high on this changing anything.
I contacted GM Customer Service and a "Senior CS Manager" is supposed to return my call and they gave me a case number. Perhaps they'll take my car back and give me a ZR1 for the same price (yeah right)
I contacted Texas DMV and they said it would be Maryland Lemon Law.
Maryland DMV was already closed, will call them tomorrow. Paperwork says I have to notify GM in writing of the problem. As far as the 30 day rule goes, I'll be at 17 days by Monday.
Like Ozzstar and NSC5 said, I too had hoped even act of unplugging and re-plugging in the connectors would have fixed it. The only good thing in all of this, is it is consistent and not intermittent. That would be even more frustrating.
05-21-2018, 09:46 PM
#30
They did call an hour later and say the problem is definitely still there. Big brother Onstar doesn't lie.
They ordered an ECM, and sounds like they'll install it Monday. My hopes aren't high on this changing anything.
I contacted GM Customer Service and a "Senior CS Manager" is supposed to return my call and they gave me a case number. Perhaps they'll take my car back and give me a ZR1 for the same price (yeah right)
I contacted Texas DMV and they said it would be Maryland Lemon Law.
Maryland DMV was already closed, will call them tomorrow. Paperwork says I have to notify GM in writing of the problem. As far as the 30 day rule goes, I'll be at 17 days by Monday.
Like Ozzstar and NSC5 said, I too had hoped even act of unplugging and re-plugging in the connectors would have fixed it. The only good thing in all of this, is it is consistent and not intermittent. That would be even more frustrating.
They ordered an ECM, and sounds like they'll install it Monday. My hopes aren't high on this changing anything.
I contacted GM Customer Service and a "Senior CS Manager" is supposed to return my call and they gave me a case number. Perhaps they'll take my car back and give me a ZR1 for the same price (yeah right)
I contacted Texas DMV and they said it would be Maryland Lemon Law.
Maryland DMV was already closed, will call them tomorrow. Paperwork says I have to notify GM in writing of the problem. As far as the 30 day rule goes, I'll be at 17 days by Monday.
Like Ozzstar and NSC5 said, I too had hoped even act of unplugging and re-plugging in the connectors would have fixed it. The only good thing in all of this, is it is consistent and not intermittent. That would be even more frustrating.
Last edited by Ozzstar; 05-21-2018 at 09:46 PM.
05-23-2018, 06:22 AM
#31
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Thread Starter
Didn't want to wear out the welcome on this. It's still broke is the short story.
They've had issues getting the ECM since Thursday last week. Supposedly it'll be here today.
I've been talking to GM and the dealer to come to a resolution. We'll see if this ECM works, my hopes are not high. We will be at 3 tries and 20 days on this thing...
Definitely leaning towards buyback and order a new one.
They've had issues getting the ECM since Thursday last week. Supposedly it'll be here today.
I've been talking to GM and the dealer to come to a resolution. We'll see if this ECM works, my hopes are not high. We will be at 3 tries and 20 days on this thing...
Definitely leaning towards buyback and order a new one.
05-23-2018, 06:49 AM
#32
Race Director
05-23-2018, 07:33 AM
#33
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Would have been great had they found that issue on day 2 or 3. You would think GM had walked them through the entire wiring diagram for the connections from ECM to Injectors. At this point, we're past my patience level of them finding it.
Sending a first month payment for a car I haven't even been able to drive yet basically.
Sending a first month payment for a car I haven't even been able to drive yet basically.
05-23-2018, 12:41 PM
#34
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St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19-'20-'21
Luck of the draw! 
Sorry for your situation! I know this is not helping now, your car is beautiful, it will be fixed, or replaced, and once you are driving it, life is amazing! 
Sorry for your situation! I know this is not helping now, your car is beautiful, it will be fixed, or replaced, and once you are driving it, life is amazing!
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fenmotorsports (05-23-2018)
05-31-2018, 09:18 AM
#35
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27 days later, the car is fixed or at least I drove for the longest drive yet at 45 miles and it didn't break.
It was what a couple of you had thought. There was a loose pin in a connector in the injector harness.
GM and the dealers are working to make up for the ordeal and 28 days of an 11 mile car being down.
It was what a couple of you had thought. There was a loose pin in a connector in the injector harness.
GM and the dealers are working to make up for the ordeal and 28 days of an 11 mile car being down.
05-31-2018, 09:34 AM
#36
Glad you have the car back and hopefully GM comes up with reasonable compensation for this experience.
What you experienced is one of the side effects of the move towards reliance upon solving every problem via DTCs and TSBs and moving away from training techs to actually understand how things work. Like many other aspects of modern corporations, education, etc. the focus is on efficiency and not effectiveness because it is far easier to be efficient than effective leading to many people efficiently undertaking tasks which have no real relevance to solving the problem at hand.
There are some good techs out there but the system and culture pushed by the captive corporate service network will drive many of those away from the dealer network.
What you experienced is one of the side effects of the move towards reliance upon solving every problem via DTCs and TSBs and moving away from training techs to actually understand how things work. Like many other aspects of modern corporations, education, etc. the focus is on efficiency and not effectiveness because it is far easier to be efficient than effective leading to many people efficiently undertaking tasks which have no real relevance to solving the problem at hand.
There are some good techs out there but the system and culture pushed by the captive corporate service network will drive many of those away from the dealer network.
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fenmotorsports (05-31-2018)
06-01-2018, 09:57 PM
#38
27 days later, the car is fixed or at least I drove for the longest drive yet at 45 miles and it didn't break.
It was what a couple of you had thought. There was a loose pin in a connector in the injector harness.
GM and the dealers are working to make up for the ordeal and 28 days of an 11 mile car being down.
It was what a couple of you had thought. There was a loose pin in a connector in the injector harness.
GM and the dealers are working to make up for the ordeal and 28 days of an 11 mile car being down.
Hey what do I know? My automotive YouTube channel is only somewhat successful helping people fix there cars with 3.5 million views. lol I only wish I could have had 10 minutes with you car the day I read the thread you posted. I would have had it fixed on the spot.I am glad the shop did what I suggested and got your car back on the road and running strong. Don't forget to change the engine oil at 500 miles (initial break in) I have a video on that too. ;-) Take care and enjoy your new car! -Glen (Ozz)
https://www.youtube.com/ozzstar
06-01-2018, 10:01 PM
#39
Race Director
Post #5 in this thread. Hey what do I know? My automotive YouTube channel is only somewhat successful helping people fix there cars with 3.5 million views. lol I only wish I could have had 10 minutes with you car the day I read the thread you posted. I would have had it fixed on the spot.
I am glad the shop did what I suggested and got your car back on the road and running strong. Don't forget to change the engine oil at 500 miles (initial break in) I have a video on that too. ;-) Take care and enjoy your new car! -Glen (Ozz)
https://www.youtube.com/ozzstar
Hey what do I know? My automotive YouTube channel is only somewhat successful helping people fix there cars with 3.5 million views. lol I only wish I could have had 10 minutes with you car the day I read the thread you posted. I would have had it fixed on the spot.I am glad the shop did what I suggested and got your car back on the road and running strong. Don't forget to change the engine oil at 500 miles (initial break in) I have a video on that too. ;-) Take care and enjoy your new car! -Glen (Ozz)
https://www.youtube.com/ozzstar
See post 32.
06-02-2018, 06:59 AM
#40
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St. Jude Donor '15
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Fern, I think some would appreciate knowing what dealer was able to fix your car for future reference. It may have taken awhile, but at least they do know now about "pins." That's surely better than the next dealer that's never seen that problem before and begins talking about an ECM replacement.
