C7 Engine failure / REBUILD at 4K Miles???
05-26-2018, 03:10 PM
#141
Race Director
BTW bearings frequently have the size printed on the backside of them. STD means standard .010 means ten thousandths over ect … I would expect nothing but standard sized bearings to be used on a new engine.
Last edited by PatternDayTrader; 05-26-2018 at 03:22 PM.
05-26-2018, 03:14 PM
#142
Race Director
Lemon law says in essence that they have to fix it and then it would have to break again before they would be liable. I am not interested in lawsuits... yet. I am trying to get GM to do the right thing.
No one who buys a new car wants it returned, rebuilt, especially a high-end sports car. My argument is simply, I did not cause this problem. It was a factory defect and if I were to turn around and try and sell it (as confirmed by a Chevy Dealer and others), there is no way that I would get top dollar. In effect, this issue, if followed through as GM would like, would return to me a car that is diminished in value, period.
Although I would hope to keep it for a long time, one never knows what the future holds and that I might one day need to sell, and of no fault of my own, I would be forced to take less for the car than if were selling one w/o any issues.
I appreciate your comments however, and I hope GM does the right thing. The factory caused this problem, not me.
No one who buys a new car wants it returned, rebuilt, especially a high-end sports car. My argument is simply, I did not cause this problem. It was a factory defect and if I were to turn around and try and sell it (as confirmed by a Chevy Dealer and others), there is no way that I would get top dollar. In effect, this issue, if followed through as GM would like, would return to me a car that is diminished in value, period.
Although I would hope to keep it for a long time, one never knows what the future holds and that I might one day need to sell, and of no fault of my own, I would be forced to take less for the car than if were selling one w/o any issues.
I appreciate your comments however, and I hope GM does the right thing. The factory caused this problem, not me.
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RCraigPorter (05-27-2018)
05-26-2018, 04:38 PM
#143
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Jan 2006
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Here's the big snag in the want for anything other than the repair that GM recommended. If you look through all that paperwork you signed when you bought the car there will most certainly be one with a paragraph that says you will agree to allow GM to make any repairs/compensation etc. they deem fit. It's all legalize designed by high paid lawyers on retainer, and they are good at what they do.
If it were me I would simple ask for a new engine instead of a re-build. That may be all you can get, if that. Good luck.
If it were me I would simple ask for a new engine instead of a re-build. That may be all you can get, if that. Good luck.
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05-26-2018, 07:04 PM
#144
Does anyone have a clue what the cost of a new car would be if the manufacturer paid "diminished value" every time warranty work was done? Sadly, some of you folks are lost in space with reality out the window. They are not going to pay diminished value!!!
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05-26-2018, 07:18 PM
#145
Thank you sir, I understand. And you are correct, GM has reached out to help me. I am not disputing that.
Also, please keep in mind, I am not demanding anything, and I am not demanding a buy-back. What I am asking GM to do is to help me with the purchase of a new C7 by working with a Certified Chevrolet Dealer to trade my car in for a new one. Dealers buy cars all the time. I've just been given a quote on my current C7 and it came in well below resale. The issue right now is that because of the GM FACTORY DEFECT, no Certified Chevrolet Dealer will give me top $$ for my TRADE-IN. It's that simple.
Thus, the factory defect (which has happened by no fault of my own) has in effect, and at this point, caused me to look at digging deeper into my pocket to replace this car.
Am I willing to live with a rebuilt motor? No. Why? Because if I did decide to sell it down the road, NO ONE is going to give me top dollar (i.e. baseline resale value) for a car that has had the engine rebuilt at 4400 miles. I have confirmed that fact with several Certified Chevrolet dealers.... among others.
Also, please keep in mind, I am not demanding anything, and I am not demanding a buy-back. What I am asking GM to do is to help me with the purchase of a new C7 by working with a Certified Chevrolet Dealer to trade my car in for a new one. Dealers buy cars all the time. I've just been given a quote on my current C7 and it came in well below resale. The issue right now is that because of the GM FACTORY DEFECT, no Certified Chevrolet Dealer will give me top $$ for my TRADE-IN. It's that simple.
Thus, the factory defect (which has happened by no fault of my own) has in effect, and at this point, caused me to look at digging deeper into my pocket to replace this car.
Am I willing to live with a rebuilt motor? No. Why? Because if I did decide to sell it down the road, NO ONE is going to give me top dollar (i.e. baseline resale value) for a car that has had the engine rebuilt at 4400 miles. I have confirmed that fact with several Certified Chevrolet dealers.... among others.
So your engine needs a crankshaft and a CONNECTING ROD? What was it, the bearing was "installed wrong" at the factory? Highly unlikely since they only go in one way. Bearing clearance a little tight? Maybe. Maybe be you were leaning on the motor too hard when the oil was cold, and not flowing well, and that's when it spun that rod bearing, if that's what happened. That sounds like customer abuse. Luckily they are repairing that under warranty for you.
It sounds like GM is doing what needs to be done to repair the motor as per the warranty and making a car payment for you. Sounds more that fair to me. You aren't owed anything other than the engine repair.
"Diminished value"? I hate to break it to you, but the value of your Corvette, or any other new vehicle for that matter, diminished in value the minute you drove it off the lot. Less value down the road because the engine was repaired? Seriously? No one is going to care five or ten years down the road.
Here's the bottom line as I see it, quit your crying and enjoy your Corvette after the repair or take your beating and trade it in!
05-26-2018, 08:42 PM
#146
Le Mans Master
The engine is out of the car, the affected piston has been removed, the crank is being replaced, all top end components have been removed. Not sure how this is not considered a complete engine rebuild. It's close enough that it will be certified as a rebuild in the records and that's enough to diminish the resale value. And you are exactly right, if I take the car back, I will know soon enough if there are additional issues... and I do not care to go through this again.
Thanks for your post, appreciate it.
Thanks for your post, appreciate it.
And what are they doing about the oil passages that have likely had oil shavings circulating around in them? Is that block going out to be boiled out?
I would be OK with a new factory short block. I figure a tech can torque heads on a new short block. But rebuilding a short block? No.
Last edited by Michael A; 05-26-2018 at 08:43 PM.
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RCraigPorter (05-27-2018)
05-26-2018, 11:02 PM
#147
Fellow Corvette owners & lovers, I am in need of help and advice. I am also looking for someone from GM (advisor?) who can help me understand the decisions by GM that have lead me to this forum for help.
About a year ago, I purchased a brand new C7, Grand Sport. I have since put less than 4500 miles on the car. Earlier this month (May 2018), a knocking sound developed in the engine and I took it to a local dealer. What they told me shocked me. The factory had installed a journal bearing incorrectly on a piston rod, and now the engine is out of the car in a thousand pieces as the dealer, GM and myself haggle over the solution. Engine components (including a new crankshaft) will have to be replaced!
GM wants to rebuild the engine and give the car back to me, with "one payment" as compensation. They will also extend the warranty.
I want no part of that. A rebuilt engine on a brand new Corvette? The intrinsic (and RESALE) value of this car has now been permanently diminished. No one is going to give me top dollar for a car that's had an engine rebuild of this magnitude at just over 4000 miles, and I am not convinced that other issues will not be introduced during the rebuild, which is being done at a dealer, not an engine shop.
Someone please help me here. I am being told by GM that I'm asking too much to have them buy back this car so I can then buy another C7. I don't think that's too much to ask. I purchased this car with retirement money to be able to enjoy in retirement. It's the first Vette I've been able to buy new and GM is treating this like it's a Chevy Sonic.
What should be my next course of action? I have been talking with GM reps but am hitting a brick wall on anything with them buying back this defective car. Again, I'm willing to buy a new 2017 / 18 or 19 C7 if we can find common ground.
Updated Status - May 24th - I spoke with a Chevy Dealer in Chicago today. They have a similar Grand Sport that I would be willing to purchase. They confirmed as I suspected that no one is going to give me top $$ for this car now that it has been affected by a factory defect.
Has anyone else had a similar issue with GM? Or this kind of problem with your new C7?
About a year ago, I purchased a brand new C7, Grand Sport. I have since put less than 4500 miles on the car. Earlier this month (May 2018), a knocking sound developed in the engine and I took it to a local dealer. What they told me shocked me. The factory had installed a journal bearing incorrectly on a piston rod, and now the engine is out of the car in a thousand pieces as the dealer, GM and myself haggle over the solution. Engine components (including a new crankshaft) will have to be replaced!
GM wants to rebuild the engine and give the car back to me, with "one payment" as compensation. They will also extend the warranty.
I want no part of that. A rebuilt engine on a brand new Corvette? The intrinsic (and RESALE) value of this car has now been permanently diminished. No one is going to give me top dollar for a car that's had an engine rebuild of this magnitude at just over 4000 miles, and I am not convinced that other issues will not be introduced during the rebuild, which is being done at a dealer, not an engine shop.
Someone please help me here. I am being told by GM that I'm asking too much to have them buy back this car so I can then buy another C7. I don't think that's too much to ask. I purchased this car with retirement money to be able to enjoy in retirement. It's the first Vette I've been able to buy new and GM is treating this like it's a Chevy Sonic.
What should be my next course of action? I have been talking with GM reps but am hitting a brick wall on anything with them buying back this defective car. Again, I'm willing to buy a new 2017 / 18 or 19 C7 if we can find common ground.
Updated Status - May 24th - I spoke with a Chevy Dealer in Chicago today. They have a similar Grand Sport that I would be willing to purchase. They confirmed as I suspected that no one is going to give me top $$ for this car now that it has been affected by a factory defect.
Has anyone else had a similar issue with GM? Or this kind of problem with your new C7?
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RCraigPorter (05-27-2018)
05-27-2018, 04:00 AM
#148
Melting Slicks
Beyond any concern of the engine, even if the engine could be fixed,
what does the carfax/history say now? Engine rebuilt at 4,000 miles? It raises questions: What was wrong with it/the owner? And now the new engine has how many miles, 3,999? 15,000? How many miles till you are satisfied, and how many after that is too many and worn out? Depends on the buyer.
As any buyer, you can't really feel good about seeing that. There is no universe where we would prefer to see that a car needed a rebuilt engine after so short a time. It raises questions concerning the ownership, care, maintenance, reliability, durability, all manner raised to light of mind a particular vessel.
what does the carfax/history say now? Engine rebuilt at 4,000 miles? It raises questions: What was wrong with it/the owner? And now the new engine has how many miles, 3,999? 15,000? How many miles till you are satisfied, and how many after that is too many and worn out? Depends on the buyer.
As any buyer, you can't really feel good about seeing that. There is no universe where we would prefer to see that a car needed a rebuilt engine after so short a time. It raises questions concerning the ownership, care, maintenance, reliability, durability, all manner raised to light of mind a particular vessel.
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RCraigPorter (05-27-2018)
05-27-2018, 07:09 AM
#149
Intermediate
Thread Starter
I thought I read the wrong bearing was installed. Obviously if the bearing was installed wrong then that would change things.
BTW bearings frequently have the size printed on the backside of them. STD means standard .010 means ten thousandths over ect … I would expect nothing but standard sized bearings to be used on a new engine.
BTW bearings frequently have the size printed on the backside of them. STD means standard .010 means ten thousandths over ect … I would expect nothing but standard sized bearings to be used on a new engine.
05-27-2018, 07:13 AM
#150
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Maybe they won't, it's a gamble. But if I don't try, then it's a sure bet.
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Rebel Yell (05-27-2018)
05-27-2018, 07:15 AM
#151
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Beyond any concern of the engine, even if the engine could be fixed,
what does the carfax/history say now? Engine rebuilt at 4,000 miles? It raises questions: What was wrong with it/the owner? And now the new engine has how many miles, 3,999? 15,000? How many miles till you are satisfied, and how many after that is too many and worn out? Depends on the buyer.
As any buyer, you can't really feel good about seeing that. There is no universe where we would prefer to see that a car needed a rebuilt engine after so short a time. It raises questions concerning the ownership, care, maintenance, reliability, durability, all manner raised to light of mind a particular vessel.
what does the carfax/history say now? Engine rebuilt at 4,000 miles? It raises questions: What was wrong with it/the owner? And now the new engine has how many miles, 3,999? 15,000? How many miles till you are satisfied, and how many after that is too many and worn out? Depends on the buyer.
As any buyer, you can't really feel good about seeing that. There is no universe where we would prefer to see that a car needed a rebuilt engine after so short a time. It raises questions concerning the ownership, care, maintenance, reliability, durability, all manner raised to light of mind a particular vessel.
05-27-2018, 07:47 AM
#152
Melting Slicks
Wouldn’t you think if the journal bearings had been installed wrong and oil flow was restricted that the motor wouldn’t have gone 4000 miles?
Last edited by SRQStingray; 05-27-2018 at 07:48 AM.
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Foosh (05-27-2018)
05-27-2018, 10:05 AM
#153
So it spun a bearing. So they'll have to pull the crank and at least that one piston to replace the rod. In the process of all this all the rod caps will be off. Frankly a crate motor would be the way to go, new from GM. Just ship a new motor down to the dealer and drop er in. Much better idea unless you can work a trade into the process.
And I'd really want to see the new engine going in. If it get's fixed really fast I'd expect they used some fine grain abrasive and tried to polish the crank journal and pop in a new bearing with some heavy grease and bolt er back up and tell you it's ready. Good luck sir, I hope it gets sorted out for you correctly. I'm voting for a trade or ay least a new engine in there.There's a whole lot of work to pull that crank and install a new rod. Ouch!
And I'd really want to see the new engine going in. If it get's fixed really fast I'd expect they used some fine grain abrasive and tried to polish the crank journal and pop in a new bearing with some heavy grease and bolt er back up and tell you it's ready. Good luck sir, I hope it gets sorted out for you correctly. I'm voting for a trade or ay least a new engine in there.There's a whole lot of work to pull that crank and install a new rod. Ouch!
Last edited by curve65; 05-27-2018 at 10:05 AM.
05-27-2018, 10:14 AM
#154
One thing people need to understand that they are seemingly discounting. The dealer number one is on the hook for the repair. If he makes the necessary repairs and there is a future failure, he is on the hook to fix it again at no charge to GM or prove it was an unrelated failure they could not have detected during the first repair. The second factor is that the mechanic, most likely on flat-rate, will "eat" the second repair as well if he fails to properly do the repair.
All this ridiculous and baseless nonsense about taking shortcuts, not having the knowledge to make the repair, lack of having a clean room, etc is just that...total nonsense. People who have never worked in that environment listening to others who also haven't been there will result in throwing the car away the first time it needs a simple repair.
All this ridiculous and baseless nonsense about taking shortcuts, not having the knowledge to make the repair, lack of having a clean room, etc is just that...total nonsense. People who have never worked in that environment listening to others who also haven't been there will result in throwing the car away the first time it needs a simple repair.
05-27-2018, 10:34 AM
#155
I understand your desire for a new car, and that you're disappointed. I also know that's an unrealistic expectation.
You can always trade the car now and take a loss, but compensating for that kind of loss is not any manufacturer's responsibility any more than a customer who decides they want a red car instead of white. All they owe you is a car that is functioning 100% per the specs. You can avoid the loss by not dumping the car, and 5-6 years down the road, it will make zero difference in value if that's the only defect in it's history.
That decision is entirely yours. I'd get over your mental angst, keep the car, trust the engine will be as good as new, and enjoy it.
Last edited by Foosh; 05-27-2018 at 11:11 AM.
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Steve_R (05-27-2018)
05-27-2018, 11:00 AM
#156
Two years from now there will be no loss of value on the car. The dealer is offering a extended warranty which if transferable will add to the value of the car. Get your car fixed and enjoy driving it. GM’s only obligation is to fix the car. They seem to be dealing very fairly with you.
05-27-2018, 11:20 AM
#157
Team Owner
I thought I read the wrong bearing was installed. Obviously if the bearing was installed wrong then that would change things.
BTW bearings frequently have the size printed on the backside of them. STD means standard .010 means ten thousandths over ect … I would expect nothing but standard sized bearings to be used on a new engine.
BTW bearings frequently have the size printed on the backside of them. STD means standard .010 means ten thousandths over ect … I would expect nothing but standard sized bearings to be used on a new engine.
I doubt that GM ever used .010" oversized bearings on a new engine.
Pretty common on bearings intended for the aftermarket where turning the crankshaft journals .010" under is commonplace during a rebuild.
05-27-2018, 12:07 PM
#158
Race Director
In my mind, it does not change the course of action I would take if this were happening to me. It only changes how I would approach the situation with Chevrolet/GM, and how far I would push things trying to make myself whole. Regardless of the sentiment here, I don't think extending the warranty and making a payment would make me whole in this situation. I suppose I might agree if the warranty extension was long enough from a time perspective. My primary concern would be centered on how often I drove this car. I would want to consider how a rate of four thousand miles per year could translate into several years before problems related to the present situation even begin to occur. I would always be mindful that it can many hundreds of miles before all of the emissions systems even complete all the self tests once, and that's just the emissions system. But, that's just me, and those are the things I would be concerning myself with if this were happening to me. I could probably be persuaded to accept some sort of GMPP (or whatever they call it) warranty above and beyond the existing factory warranty provided it covered the powertrain in it entirety and all the associated electrical systems. I could probably live with this because it would address the concerns I have.
05-27-2018, 12:09 PM
#159
Race Director
I don't know if it's current, but decades ago I freshened up the engine in my 1969 Corvette. First time the engine had been opened. All the main bearings were standard size except for the rear main. it was .001" oversize, because the rear crankshaft journal was machined .001" under spec, and they were not going to throw a perfectly good crankshaft away.
I doubt that GM ever used .010" oversized bearings on a new engine.
Pretty common on bearings intended for the aftermarket where turning the crankshaft journals .010" under is commonplace during a rebuild.
I doubt that GM ever used .010" oversized bearings on a new engine.
Pretty common on bearings intended for the aftermarket where turning the crankshaft journals .010" under is commonplace during a rebuild.
05-27-2018, 12:29 PM
#160
Drifting
I would be concerned the spun bearing sent particals throughout the engine scoring other parts and the cylinders. I would first try the diminished value route. There are appraisers that write a report for approx $350 and try the trade route with the dealer and GM. I think having this would help your negotiation. Short of this route I would try to get a crate motor and ask for an extended transferable warranty to help with resale value and liquidity.