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Old 06-20-2018, 10:50 PM
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NmtMev
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Default Oil filter... who knows the answer to this question?

There are some manufacturers that recommend a filter with a specific bypass oil pressure channel for the oil filter under heavy loads (that also has an anti drainback valve). Does anybody know what/if/is there published data on what the GM engineers recommend for the C7. (LT1/LT4)

specifically the OEM filter may meet these specs, however... It may not not have the best filtration properties (for obvious reasons)

aftermarket oil filters exist for virtually all cars on the road.

if there is a spec for the filter that meets or exceeds OEM recommendation, and filters better than OEM does anyone have any data to back that up?


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Old 06-20-2018, 11:25 PM
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22psi; Mobil tech support confirmed to me that the M1-113 & M1-113A filters meet this spec.
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Old 06-20-2018, 11:31 PM
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Do yourself a favor and don't waste your time and energy on this and just use the PF64 that GM made and recommends for the C7.
I owned a chain of auto parts stores for years, sold millions of the major brand filters and could give you a very detailed and analytical answer, however I'm going to take the advice I gave you and not waste my time.
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Old 06-20-2018, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevin A Jones View Post
Do yourself a favor and don't waste your time and energy on this and just use the PF64 that GM made and recommends for the C7.
I owned a chain of auto parts stores for years, sold millions of the major brand filters and could give you a very detailed and analytical answer, however I'm going to take the advice I gave you and not waste my time.
​​​​​​​Lol ... ok then.
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Old 06-20-2018, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevin A Jones View Post
Do yourself a favor and don't waste your time and energy on this and just use the PF64 that GM made and recommends for the C7.
I owned a chain of auto parts stores for years, sold millions of the major brand filters and could give you a very detailed and analytical answer, however I'm going to take the advice I gave you and not waste my time.
I'm not wasting any time... here you go from the original post

"if there is a spec for the filter that meets or exceeds OEM recommendation, and filters better than OEM does anyone have any data to back that up? "

Backup your statement, not with sales figures....Or just stay out of the thread. Better not waste anymore of your time.
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Old 06-20-2018, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Kracka View Post
22psi; Mobil tech support confirmed to me that the M1-113 & M1-113A filters meet this spec.
thank you!
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Old 06-21-2018, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by PatternDayTrader View Post
Lol ... ok then.
Not to be snippy, but I've tried to help with questions like this several times before based on my fairly substantial experience (auto battery life, lower engine rebuild etc) only to be told by clueless poster after clueless poster why I was wrong.
So just no longer wasting too much time going in to detail.
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Old 06-21-2018, 12:24 AM
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Kevin, I get your response. No good deed goes unpunished here.

Moreover, your advice was sound. Just use what GM recommends. It's not like you're saving money using something else, and you avoid any possibility of warranty complications in worst case scenarios.

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Old 06-21-2018, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin A Jones View Post
Not to be snippy, but I've tried to help with questions like this several times before based on my fairly substantial experience (auto battery life, lower engine rebuild etc) only to be told by clueless poster after clueless poster why I was wrong.
So just no longer wasting too much time going in to detail.
You handled that rudeness directed at you quite well.

I see no reason to second guess auto engineers on their recommendation for things like oil filters.

Last edited by KCV; 06-21-2018 at 12:37 AM.
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Old 06-21-2018, 07:40 AM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by Kracka View Post
22psi; Mobil tech support confirmed to me that the M1-113 & M1-113A filters meet this spec.
The problem is, I also got an email from Champion Labs (who makes the M1 filter) and they told me something different. So who knows who to trust?

This is the email response I got from them:
Patrick

The M1-113A has a by-pass valve set at 12-18 psid at 1/10 gallon flow. Champion Laboratories makes the AC Delco PF64 oil filter and the Mobil 1 M1-113/M1-113A filters and we stand behind any of these three listed filters when used on the 2018 Chevrolet Corvette.



Tech Hotline

Phone: 800-882-0890 2


BTW, there is a new Fram Ultra filter coming out that fits the C7 that has the 22psi bypass, it's XG12060. Also, the Wix WL10290 and the NAPA Gold 100290 are just hitting the stores now and have the 22psi bypass as well.
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Old 06-21-2018, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin A Jones View Post
Not to be snippy, but I've tried to help with questions like this several times before based on my fairly substantial experience (auto battery life, lower engine rebuild etc) only to be told by clueless poster after clueless poster why I was wrong.
So just no longer wasting too much time going in to detail.
Believe it or not, I'm with you one hundred percent.
I just think its funny how the best advice is sometimes delivered.
Your post was one of those times.
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Old 06-21-2018, 08:34 AM
  #12  
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UPF64R! Most filters never bypass. If they do bypass the engine gets unfiltered oil, big deal.
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Old 06-21-2018, 09:14 AM
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I won't present what I'm saying as fact, but I'll present my opinion. You can place whatever value you see fit on my opinion;

I've read a bulletin from GM that says "our" filters have a bypass pressure of 22 PSI and that is the proper bypass setting for our cars. The memo "warned" of substitute filters that had lower bypass settings.

I contacted Mobil and K&N and requested information on both their filters. Both responded their filters had bypass settings in the 12-18 PSI range, but also stated their filter media was such that it filtered oil very well at a lower pressure, and their filters were entirely acceptable for use in our cars. Both seemed familiar with GM's 22 PSI spec, but believe their filters performed as well or better than the GM filter.

The ONE filter I found (beside GM) with a set pressure of 22 PSI was Wix. Wix makes two filters for our car; the WL-10290, and the WL-10290XP http://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/Par...x?Part=2168039

Both Wix filters have a GM specified bypass pressure of 22 PSI. The XP designation is a premium filter and "better than their non XP version. The XP filter is about $11 and the non XP filter is significantly less.

I personally believe what Mobil and K&N told me regarding their filters working very well in our cars, and the specific bypass pressure not being THE critical component. Their contention is that their filters do a great job at filter as much (or more) oil due to their premium filter media as do the GM filters at higher pressures.

All that said, I think the Wix premium filter is a very good filter AND it has the proper set pressure. Seems to be the best of both worlds to me. I get the added benefit of a "premium" filter (which is what I'm looking for in a Mobil or K&N) plus having the correct bypass pressure.

I personally don't want to give GM and "excuse" not to warranty my car for using a filter with a spec that's outside what they suggest (even though I personally think it's ok). I further think that if warranty was my primary concern, I'd use the GM filter. However, I want to maintain the warranty AND utilize a premium filter. The Wix WL-10290XP fits that bill for me. FOR ME! However, I completely understand the basis for using the GM filter, the K&N, the Mobil, and any other brand name filter. Each person uses a different weighting on the elements they believe constitute the "best" filter. That's the reason you get so many differing answers to questions about oil and filters.
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Old 06-21-2018, 09:41 AM
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For my cars with custom built engines that don’t come from a factory (like street rods) I always use Wix or Baldwin filters. IMO they’re the best. But for newer cars I use OEM. Easy, cheap, and it works. If you’re worried about oil cleanliness, change it more often.
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Patman View Post
BTW, there is a new Fram Ultra filter coming out that fits the C7 that has the 22psi bypass, it's XG12060. Also, the Wix WL10290 and the NAPA Gold 100290 are just hitting the stores now and have the 22psi bypass as well.
Great news, the Fram Ultra Synthetic is one of the better filters on the market, that is pretty much universally agreed upon. I'd put it more or less in line with the original M1-113, but superior to the M1-113A.
Originally Posted by Patman View Post
The problem is, I also got an email from Champion Labs (who makes the M1 filter) and they told me something different. So who knows who to trust?
Here is the reply I got, which was an email forwarded to me by Craig Betts at ExxonMobil Products Technology originally from Paul Ankenbrandt at Champion Laboratories:
"The Mobil 1 M1-113 or M1-113A both use a 22psi by-pass valve."

Last edited by Kracka; 06-21-2018 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by thompstl1 View Post


I personally believe what Mobil and K&N told me regarding their filters working very well in our cars, and the specific bypass pressure not being THE critical component. Their contention is that their filters do a great job at filter as much (or more) oil due to their premium filter media as do the GM filters at higher pressures.

All that said, I think the Wix premium filter is a very good filter AND it has the proper set pressure. Seems to be the best of both worlds to me. I get the added benefit of a "premium" filter (which is what I'm looking for in a Mobil or K&N) plus having the correct bypass pressure.

I personally don't want to give GM and "excuse" not to warranty my car for using a filter with a spec that's outside what they suggest (even though I personally think it's ok). I further think that if warranty was my primary concern, I'd use the GM filter. However, I want to maintain the warranty AND utilize a premium filter. The Wix WL-10290XP fits that bill for me. FOR ME! However, I completely understand the basis for using the GM filter, the K&N, the Mobil, and any other brand name filter. Each person uses a different weighting on the elements they believe constitute the "best" filter. That's the reason you get so many differing answers to questions about oil and filters.
Well said, I agree with pretty much everything you're saying! I ran the PF64 on my car for the first two oil change intervals, but after seeing one cut open recently that had torn filtering media (basically meaning it was barely filtering the oil) I decided to take a chance and I put on a Fram Ultra XG10060 on the car for the last oil change. I knew I was going against the 22psi bypass recommendation, but I also know that the Ultra filter has very good media, and probably only goes into bypass during the first minute or two after a cold start and only for a brief second, since the weather isn't cold here. I drive very gentle when the engine is first started up, so that helps limit (or even eliminate) the number of bypass events hopefully. My concern with a filter with a lower bypass setting would be greater if it were used in the cold winter time, or if driven hard with oil temps below 100F. That being said, I am under warranty still and want to use the proper spec just to make sure I don't give them any reason to deny a claim if needed. But I do want to use a premium filter, and I do not trust the PF64. So I already have bought a NAPA Gold 100290 for my next oil change. But I do believe the Fram Ultra is the better filter, and for all of the oil changes after the next one, I will use the new XG12060, it should be widely available by then.
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin A Jones View Post
Do yourself a favor and don't waste your time and energy on this and just use the PF64 that GM made and recommends for the C7.
FYI: GM has an upgrade for the PF64 called the UPF64R for a few dollars more.
.
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.

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Old 06-21-2018, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Kracka View Post

Here is the reply I got, which was an email forwarded to me by Craig Betts at ExxonMobil Products Technology originally from Paul Ankenbrandt at Champion Laboratories:
"The Mobil 1 M1-113 or M1-113A both use a 22psi by-pass valve."
It's frustrating that different people from the same company are giving out different information, it makes me want to shy away from their products entirely.
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:16 AM
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Just a reminder to those who always believe that GM filters, fluids etc. are the absolute best... remember that all GM cares about is getting the vehicle to last through the warranty period. Not saying they deliberately supply inadequate products, just that they don't have a financial interest in durability beyond the warranty. On the contrary, lack of durability beyond the warranty is a profit making opportunity. For my purposes the Mobil 1 and WIX filters are perfectly good choices.
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by John Ulrich View Post
FYI: GM has an upgrade for the PF64 called the UPF64R for a few dollars more.
.
.
.
That filter really isn't a "premium" filter like the old Ultraguard Gold UPF44 filter that we used to run on the C5s back in the day. The UPF64R is actually a filter made for the smaller GM engines like the 1.5 liter turbo engine in the Cruze or the Spark. (it's even the filter for the Chevy Volt) So don't let the UPF designation (or the R at the end) make you think it's some sort of special racing filter or anything similar the Ultraguard Gold filters from before. Your money is still better spent upgrading to Wix, NAPA Gold or the Fram Ultra XG12060 when it's available.
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