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It's highly doubtful both vehicles are "worth" $60k. Consider the BMW may be worth $56K, and they are adding the $4K maintenance for a total of $60K. And that you should be paying $56K for it rather than being distracted by the included maintenance. I would negotiate as low of a price as I could, then get them to throw in the maintenance plan for free. I would do the same with the Audi.
This has gone well past the original "M3 vs C7 Grand Sport" argument and have taken on a life of its own...
But you can't just compare price for price for ANY two cars like that. The BMW being sold for $60K is worth $60K. Just because it's got free maintenance of $4K doesn't make it LESS expensive compared to the Audi. For all intent and purposes, the Audi may actually cost LESS to produce, because Audi's part of the VW conglomerate, and at the end of the day it does share parts and platform with VW. But, for marketing purposes and profit sharing amongst all the corporate brands, the Audi is price the same despite lower cost to produce and lower performance specs as a BMW because the two compete in the same space.
Ever wonder why an LG TV and a Sony TV of roughly the same spec selling in the same market usually cost roughly the same to the consumers? Even though they likely have different manufacturing processes sourcing from different plants using different parts? The "market" usually dictates what you price your product at, and competitive analysis has an equal part to play in ultimately what the product is priced for despite differences in features and parts.
This has gone well past the original "M3 vs C7 Grand Sport" argument and have taken on a life of its own...
But you can't just compare price for price for ANY two cars like that. The BMW being sold for $60K is worth $60K. Just because it's got free maintenance of $4K doesn't make it LESS expensive compared to the Audi. For all intent and purposes, the Audi may actually cost LESS to produce, because Audi's part of the VW conglomerate, and at the end of the day it does share parts and platform with VW. But, for marketing purposes and profit sharing amongst all the corporate brands, the Audi is price the same despite lower cost to produce and lower performance specs as a BMW because the two compete in the same space.
Ever wonder why an LG TV and a Sony TV of roughly the same spec selling in the same market usually cost roughly the same to the consumers? Even though they likely have different manufacturing processes sourcing from different plants using different parts? The "market" usually dictates what you price your product at, and competitive analysis has an equal part to play in ultimately what the product is priced for despite differences in features and parts.
Right. Price is a marketing decision. Cost is something different and known only to the manufacturer--and sometimes difficult to tease out even for the manufacturer because so many different factors are involved.
I bought my wife a '97 E320 when they came out. I wish I kept it because I liked it. She hardly drove it so I sold it. Tough to hear they are considered beaters now, but I guess that was a while ago.
I love my W210 (E320) "Silver Bullet"! Only reason she's a "beater" is the clear coat is shot after 20 years and I feel comfortable parking her anywhere. Otherwise, she runs so smoothly (replaced all 12 sparks and 6 coil packs, crank case, and motor mounts), throttle response is relatively lively (completely stock), and seating is luxury!
It's highly doubtful both vehicles are "worth" $60k. Consider the BMW may be worth $56K, and they are adding the $4K maintenance for a total of $60K. And that you should be paying $56K for it rather than being distracted by the included maintenance. I would negotiate as low of a price as I could, then get them to throw in the maintenance plan for free. I would do the same with the Audi.
Dunno, Comparably equipped, both German manufacture, and honestly I think BMW has a better reputation that Audi anyway. Big three Germans are Porsche, BMW, Mercedes. Maybe Audi used more expensive screws and fasteners. I'll take the Bimmer w/ the included maintenance.
I agree with this statement the F8X M3/M4 with DCT are fast period. Take a stock M7 non Z I doubt even the most skilled driver could be faster in a straight line, from a stand still or roll or whatever.
Still waiting to hear back from OP on this..... He said it was a newer BMW M3 so it had to have been a 4 door sedan ?????? I bet it was a E9X
Quite frankly, I don't remember how many doors it had. It was black in color, and actually not a bad looking car.
Dunno, Comparably equipped, both German manufacture, and honestly I think BMW has a better reputation that Audi anyway. Big three Germans are Porsche, BMW, Mercedes. Maybe Audi used more expensive screws and fasteners. I'll take the Bimmer w/ the included maintenance.
Audi guy thought he was selling a Porsche.
Some years ago I once almost bought an M5. Some years later my wife wanted an Audi TT. That's my only experience with the brands. I did glance at an R8 Coupe that was parked next to a GS, at a BMW dealership.
For those bashing on the M3/M4, have you ever raced one up a mountain? It will get to the top of the mountain 2 days before your vette.
I love my vette and my M4 but I can't stand driving my vette as a DD. The vette is designed for the tracks and that is where it really shines. Take it anywhere else and you lose a lot of the luster. The M4 isn't as fun on the tracks but in any other environment (rain/snow/hills/windy roads/sharp corners), it is better than vette.
The real car enthusiasts would know there is more to a car than just HP, torque and a straightaway.
For those bashing on the M3/M4, have you ever raced one up a mountain? It will get to the top of the mountain 2 days before your vette.
I love my vette and my M4 but I can't stand driving my vette as a DD. The vette is designed for the tracks and that is where it really shines. Take it anywhere else and you lose a lot of the luster. The M4 isn't as fun on the tracks but in any other environment (rain/snow/hills/windy roads/sharp corners), it is better than vette.
The real car enthusiasts would know there is more to a car than just HP, torque and a straightaway.
since I’m not Travis Pastrana (google him), I don’t drive cars up mountains. Then I’d prob want a rally car like a modified Subaru WRX STI...
It’s fine but the M4 is boring...Case in point, who needs to pipe amplified engine/exhaust noise through the stereo to get the driver to have more fun (so fake that people try to find the fuses to turn it off)?!
Now if you have an old E46 M3 CSL or 1M then you’re talking...new CSLs will be out soon!
For those bashing on the M3/M4, have you ever raced one up a mountain? It will get to the top of the mountain 2 days before your vette.
I love my vette and my M4 but I can't stand driving my vette as a DD. The vette is designed for the tracks and that is where it really shines. Take it anywhere else and you lose a lot of the luster. The M4 isn't as fun on the tracks but in any other environment (rain/snow/hills/windy roads/sharp corners), it is better than vette.
The real car enthusiasts would know there is more to a car than just HP, torque and a straightaway.
If I changed M3/M4 with Toyota Tundra, and mountain with mud bog, nothing you say would be any different.
Who cares? Who races up mountains in a Corvette? NOBODY. I own five cars. If I ever wanted to do something as pointless as race up a mountain, I would buy a mountain racer and still keep my Corvette.
since I’m not Travis Pastrana (google him), I don’t drive cars up mountains. Then I’d prob want a rally car like a modified Subaru WRX STI...
It’s fine but the M4 is boring...Case in point, who needs to pipe amplified engine/exhaust noise through the stereo to get the driver to have more fun (so fake that people try to find the fuses to turn it off)?!
Now if you have an old E46 M3 CSL or 1M then you’re talking...new CSLs will be out soon!
That is beyond pathetic. Alone that would be enough for me to never go near an M4. Of course, I am coming from the perspective of driving a '12 ZR1.
If I changed M3/M4 with Toyota Tundra, and mountain with mud bog, nothing you say would be any different.
Who cares? Who races up mountains in a Corvette? NOBODY. I own five cars. If I ever wanted to do something as pointless as race up a mountain, I would buy a mountain racer and still keep my Corvette.
LOL. I can't quite figure out which is funnier...a bunch of yokels talking about BMW, or Tesla?
Both make for a good laugh.
I live and work 5 minutes from the Tesla dealership at the Stanford Shopping Center but I still consider myself a "yokel" because of the way I was raised.
Quite OT but the Tesla is the antithesis of a lot that is Vette.
I'll grant that it is an engineering marvel but I'll only buy one when i want to drive around a big battery in a quiet machine and stare at yet another Ipad while I drive, and maybe get some kicks by doing Insane mode for one block against real cars (but not make any curving turns only straight lines at full tilt... because then I will swerve into the curb, like happened to the SF moron with vanity plates who went up against the yellow GS in my neighborhood who was smart enough to take the Tesla on a slightly curving road). My drivetrain drives me around, not vice versa. Lol just sayin'.
And if you mention that insufferable Tesla roadster, I'll remind you that it's a battery in Lotus clothing for $120K in which case I'll buy an Evora becuase then at least I'll be left with a working Toyota motor after 10 yrs.
Originally Posted by village idiot
Originally Posted by Parcival
since I’m not Travis Pastrana (google him), I don’t drive cars up mountains. Then I’d prob want a rally car like a modified Subaru WRX STI...
This is the Pike's Peak race that the aforementioned stunt driver Pastrana broke the record for years ago with a rally-type car- I believe his was a Subaru WRX... do you want a Subaru WRX, VI?
Originally Posted by village idiot
I wonder how many people that are ragging on M cars have actually driven one on a track or even driven one for an extended period of time.
Does a day count as "extended"? (i did that and a R8 V10 and R8 V8 on the same day a couple years ago.)
And again I hope I didn't sound like a "ragger"... I think they drive fine, but the new ones look and sound boring (unless pre E90)... If it's my only car and my wife has a SUV, then I would get it so that I can feel sporty and still haul around kids... Luckily for them, Vettes cost a lot more in Europe than here.
I wonder how many people that are ragging on M cars have actually driven one on a track or even driven one for an extended period of time.
No one is ragging on them. An M car isn't a sports car. No one who wanted a Corvette would consider it. They aren't competitors to each other. Had you been talking about a Viper or Lambo, vs a Corvette, then that would be a real discussion or debate.
No one is ragging on them. An M car isn't a sports car. No one who wanted a Corvette would consider it. They aren't competitors to each other. Had you been talking about a Viper or Lambo, vs a Corvette, then that would be a real discussion or debate.
I considered an M car. Lots of people cross shop that. That's simply ridiculous to say that no one who wanted a Corvette would consider it or that they aren't sports cars.
In the end I just decided I wanted to convert my next car to a weekend track car after a few years and decided a C7 was a better platform.
07-12-2018, 06:18 PM
