Sad to see at Carlisle
08-27-2018, 10:24 AM
#41
A lot of the gases implicated in global climate change are colorless and odorless.
08-27-2018, 10:30 AM
#42
Not good enough any longer. The EPA has come down on several aftermarket companies that used to sell catless exhaust with this disclaimer and fined them heavily as even though they stated the disclaimer the EPA claimed the company knew these catless parts were going onto car driven on the street.
08-27-2018, 10:41 AM
#43
Safety Car
Try moving to California or any other state that has Emission testing. You pull the Cats, you aren't going to pass the emission test. No pass, not tags for your car. And even if you do pass, you can fail on a visual inspection. Again, no tags. You will be left with listening to your Borla exhaust while revving your motor in your driveway. This isn't hypothetical, I've seen it happen to lots of people who think like you. In CA, you are left with buying a Cat-Back exhaust system. The hard core guys will put the OEM exhaust back on their vehicle for emissions, then swap it back out after passing, but that is a lot of work. Some move out of State or out in the sticks where there isn't emission testing. Seems a bit extreme to listen to a loud exhaust though.
08-27-2018, 11:05 AM
#44
Instructor
As far as the EPA enforcing regulations on the Auto Manufacturers (i.e. us, the individual car owner.. because we are the ones paying for it) to reduce pollutants in the atmosphere..
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
Will the EPA relax it's stance on individual automobile owners? Considering the growing non-polluting offset of hybrid and electric cars (not to mention new tech ICE engines). All better now. The air is cleaner and pollution has been dramatically reduced. It's likely this trend will continue and keep getting better and better. Again, Mission Accomplished. I haven't heard or seen any reports from the EPA discussing the "Hybrid/Electric car OffSet".
Hell NO! This is a huge revenue stream and it makes too much money. I'm just real curious to see how the gov't entities are going to gerrymander the system to keep this gravy train going.
If they/we are really serious about continuing to reduce air pollution, it's time to shift the focus on the ocean going freight liners in the world (and some cruise liners). They have these GIANT smoke stakes you could fit 100K car tail pipes inside of.. operating completely UNREGULATED. They can burn whatever fuel they want and they don't have cats, that's for sure!
It's High time for the EPA to shift it's focus. That is if they're really serious about protecting the environment.
Oh and don't even get me started about recycling plastics!!
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
Will the EPA relax it's stance on individual automobile owners? Considering the growing non-polluting offset of hybrid and electric cars (not to mention new tech ICE engines). All better now. The air is cleaner and pollution has been dramatically reduced. It's likely this trend will continue and keep getting better and better. Again, Mission Accomplished. I haven't heard or seen any reports from the EPA discussing the "Hybrid/Electric car OffSet".
Hell NO! This is a huge revenue stream and it makes too much money. I'm just real curious to see how the gov't entities are going to gerrymander the system to keep this gravy train going.
If they/we are really serious about continuing to reduce air pollution, it's time to shift the focus on the ocean going freight liners in the world (and some cruise liners). They have these GIANT smoke stakes you could fit 100K car tail pipes inside of.. operating completely UNREGULATED. They can burn whatever fuel they want and they don't have cats, that's for sure!
It's High time for the EPA to shift it's focus. That is if they're really serious about protecting the environment.
Oh and don't even get me started about recycling plastics!!
Last edited by VaydorVette1; 08-27-2018 at 11:06 AM.
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08-27-2018, 11:09 AM
#45
Emission Testing States
And if you remove the cats you won't pass emissions testing in states or counties where it is done. Unless you tune out the code. Then you void warranty.
If the manufacture can't legally install it, because it violates EPA laws, I'm not sure how they can sell it.
I guess if it were installed only on a track car, it would pass muster, but not a street machine.
I'm hardly a left wing 'whacko' but there are some laws created for the EPA to use, that are good. Just ask the bald eagle.
I guess if it were installed only on a track car, it would pass muster, but not a street machine.
I'm hardly a left wing 'whacko' but there are some laws created for the EPA to use, that are good. Just ask the bald eagle.
08-27-2018, 11:24 AM
#46
Drifting
As far as the EPA enforcing regulations on the Auto Manufacturers (i.e. us, the individual car owner.. because we are the ones paying for it) to reduce pollutants in the atmosphere..
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
Will the EPA relax it's stance on individual automobile owners? Considering the growing non-polluting offset of hybrid and electric cars (not to mention new tech ICE engines). All better now. The air is cleaner and pollution has been dramatically reduced. It's likely this trend will continue and keep getting better and better. Again, Mission Accomplished. I haven't heard or seen any reports from the EPA discussing the "Hybrid/Electric car OffSet".
Hell NO! This is a huge revenue stream and it makes too much money. I'm just real curious to see how the gov't entities are going to gerrymander the system to keep this gravy train going.
If they/we are really serious about continuing to reduce air pollution, it's time to shift the focus on the ocean going freight liners in the world (and some cruise liners). They have these GIANT smoke stakes you could fit 100K car tail pipes inside of.. operating completely UNREGULATED. They can burn whatever fuel they want and they don't have cats, that's for sure!
It's High time for the EPA to shift it's focus. That is if they're really serious about protecting the environment.
Oh and don't even get me started about recycling plastics!!
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
Will the EPA relax it's stance on individual automobile owners? Considering the growing non-polluting offset of hybrid and electric cars (not to mention new tech ICE engines). All better now. The air is cleaner and pollution has been dramatically reduced. It's likely this trend will continue and keep getting better and better. Again, Mission Accomplished. I haven't heard or seen any reports from the EPA discussing the "Hybrid/Electric car OffSet".
Hell NO! This is a huge revenue stream and it makes too much money. I'm just real curious to see how the gov't entities are going to gerrymander the system to keep this gravy train going.
If they/we are really serious about continuing to reduce air pollution, it's time to shift the focus on the ocean going freight liners in the world (and some cruise liners). They have these GIANT smoke stakes you could fit 100K car tail pipes inside of.. operating completely UNREGULATED. They can burn whatever fuel they want and they don't have cats, that's for sure!
It's High time for the EPA to shift it's focus. That is if they're really serious about protecting the environment.
Oh and don't even get me started about recycling plastics!!
If anyone has ever had any dealings with the Def fluids or smelled it, it seems far more damaging to the environment than some simple smoke from the stack. What about the plastic containers that is holding the def fluid going to landfills?? Its a money game folks, vehicle exhaust is not saving the planet of anything.
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08-27-2018, 11:28 AM
#47
Race Director
Bingo! Thats what its all about. No one really cares about the environment. The folks designing these emission systems on cars and far more especially the DEF systems on diesel engines are getting their pockets lined with gold litterally. There are more issues with the diesel systems that anyone can dream of. I work in a construction equipment dealership and the amount of issues and costs involved with these things are crazy.
If anyone has ever had any dealings with the Def fluids or smelled it, it seems far more damaging to the environment than some simple smoke from the stack. What about the plastic containers that is holding the def fluid going to landfills?? Its a money game folks, vehicle exhaust is not saving the planet of anything.
If anyone has ever had any dealings with the Def fluids or smelled it, it seems far more damaging to the environment than some simple smoke from the stack. What about the plastic containers that is holding the def fluid going to landfills?? Its a money game folks, vehicle exhaust is not saving the planet of anything.
08-27-2018, 11:49 AM
#48
Race Director
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Some of the nuts just woke up.
08-27-2018, 11:57 AM
#49
Safety Car
If you think the EPA and other government agencies are tough on aftermarket exhaust parts for Corvettes, you should see what they do to the trucking industry with regard to diesel engines, ultra-low-sulfur diesel fuel and the like.
The equipment on today's cars enables them to run cleaner, perform better AND be reliable for a long, long time without significant repairs. What has been mandated by Uncle Sham for diesel engines is ten times worse. I am not going to get into it here because it is not the appropriate forum - but suffice it to say that these mandates will end up costing everyone more money over the long term....for negligible results at best.
The equipment on today's cars enables them to run cleaner, perform better AND be reliable for a long, long time without significant repairs. What has been mandated by Uncle Sham for diesel engines is ten times worse. I am not going to get into it here because it is not the appropriate forum - but suffice it to say that these mandates will end up costing everyone more money over the long term....for negligible results at best.
X2!! been in the trucking industry for 40+ years.....
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speed4tu (08-27-2018)
08-27-2018, 11:59 AM
#50
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '15-'16,'18
US EPA has no authority to regulate emissions from ships registered outside the US as most are. I agree these ships expel huge quantities of pollutants. On a recent trip to Alaska, 4 large cruise ships were in port at Skagway on the same day. They sat there all day with their engines running and spewing huge amounts of pollutants. It created a haze over the entire town.
08-27-2018, 12:48 PM
#51
Safety Car
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The amount of ozone is "strongly related to the amount of automobile exhaust, which is related to population density," explained Edelman, a professor of preventive and internal medicine at Stony Brook University. Climate and geography also play a role. "Some cities are in a 'bowl' which collects pollutants," he said. The report estimates that more than 140 million Americans live in areas with high levels of ozone. This puts them at risk for premature death, aggravated asthma, difficulty breathing and future cardiovascular problems, according to the report.
Not only that, the USA is the largest contributor to CO2 emissions responsible for 22% of the world's total with only 4.28% of the population. Yet we've made great strides since 1980 when all this started. Many air pollution causes have declined dramatically: https://www.epa.gov/air-trends/air-q...tional-summary so all the "onerous" regulations have had an effect. It's just not enough.
You want to tear off pollution controls so your car can be obnoxiously loud? Good Lord, grow up!
08-27-2018, 01:10 PM
#52
Melting Slicks
US EPA has no authority to regulate emissions from ships registered outside the US as most are. I agree these ships expel huge quantities of pollutants. On a recent trip to Alaska, 4 large cruise ships were in port at Skagway on the same day. They sat there all day with their engines running and spewing huge amounts of pollutants. It created a haze over the entire town.
08-27-2018, 01:13 PM
#53
Melting Slicks
Not good enough any longer. The EPA has come down on several aftermarket companies that used to sell catless exhaust with this disclaimer and fined them heavily as even though they stated the disclaimer the EPA claimed the company knew these catless parts were going onto car driven on the street.
08-27-2018, 01:33 PM
#55
Le Mans Master
This thread really surprised me.. I was sure when I clicked on it I would read story after story of people bashing the EPA... I, like most of you, have replaced my X Pipe but I have not changed to headers keeping my stock CAT's intact.. I really do wonder how much the rear CAT is stopping...
I bet that each and every person on here would leave every piece of stock EPA Mandated good for the earth parts on these cars if we could get the good old V8 Sound from them and the performance.. Now there are people who would still modify their cars but why can't they also have the performance and keep the pollution from pouring out the back end... Seems like Corsa, Billy Boat and Magna Flow would see this as an opportunity to modify CAT's or come up with a better solution to run modified engines up to 2000 HP and still do the CAT's job by stopping pollution... And make it affordable, charging 3000 dollars for CAT's or 500 to use an off road pipe and 80% will go the cheaper route...
I bet that each and every person on here would leave every piece of stock EPA Mandated good for the earth parts on these cars if we could get the good old V8 Sound from them and the performance.. Now there are people who would still modify their cars but why can't they also have the performance and keep the pollution from pouring out the back end... Seems like Corsa, Billy Boat and Magna Flow would see this as an opportunity to modify CAT's or come up with a better solution to run modified engines up to 2000 HP and still do the CAT's job by stopping pollution... And make it affordable, charging 3000 dollars for CAT's or 500 to use an off road pipe and 80% will go the cheaper route...
Another pollutant cats and O2 sensors are responsible for reducing is lead in the environment. They used to use tetra-ethyl lead as an octane booster and also a valve seat lubricant. O2 sensors can't hack that stuff, so environmental lead has been falling ever since.
I've read that a modern car, with all the emissions equipment on it (cats, AIR system, EGR, etc.) puts out less pollution at 60 mph than a 60's car did sitting with the engine off.
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spinkick (08-27-2018)
08-27-2018, 02:54 PM
#56
If they/we are really serious about continuing to reduce air pollution, it's time to shift the focus on the ocean going freight liners in the world (and some cruise liners). They have these GIANT smoke stakes you could fit 100K car tail pipes inside of.. operating completely UNREGULATED. They can burn whatever fuel they want and they don't have cats, that's for sure!
It's High time for the EPA to shift it's focus. That is if they're really serious about protecting the environment.
Oh and don't even get me started about recycling plastics!!
It's High time for the EPA to shift it's focus. That is if they're really serious about protecting the environment.
Oh and don't even get me started about recycling plastics!!
https://www.epa.gov/regulations-emis...-marine-diesel
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Walt White Coupe (08-27-2018)
08-27-2018, 03:39 PM
#57
Racer
I was at Carlisle last year and can confirm that exhaust installs were shut down on Saturday and word around the show was that the EPA had shown up and shut them down. I didn't hear anything about arrests or fines, although the latter certainly would not be surprising.
Technically speaking cat-less midpipes are for off road use only and they shouldn't (legally) have been installing them on plated cars.
Technically speaking cat-less midpipes are for off road use only and they shouldn't (legally) have been installing them on plated cars.
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449er (08-27-2018)
08-27-2018, 05:33 PM
#59
Team Owner
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C7 of the Year - Unmodified Finalist 2021
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I wouldnt expect them to do it at a show myself, I'd order the pipe and take it to my exhaust shop that doesn't ask questions. I like loud, and I don't care about emissions. Once I'm out of warranty the headers go on and the cats come off.
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