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Yep. Your right. That's the Idaho law and it's one that needs to be changed. Montana law reads differently and mandates the dealer disclose "any damage to the skin of the vehicle". It does not however eliminate the fact that they knowingly sold a high end car that had been through their body shop twice and did not disclose it. I'll find out when they open in a couple of hours if they are going to risk their reputation and stand by that law or do the right thing and buy the car back ( or replace it).
So it appears from your attitude that you would be accept things as they are if this were your car. Is that correct?
You seem to be convinced that you have suffered some incredible injury by the vehicle having been previously paint repaired before delivery. Yet, you tell us that you spent a lot of time actually inspecting the car in the area where it was damaged before you wrote the check. You state you actually used an existing scratch on the car to your advantage...we assume in gaining the terrific price you received.
So, yes, I would leave well enough alone. In all reality, how to you think the future value will be affected? If three or four years down the road somebody wants to tell you it is worth thousands less because it was painted on before delivery, you have a fool that needs to find another car. If you could not find a problem when looking for it, why is it now worth less money?
People on this forum sometimes get carried away. You are not likely to live long enough for it to ever be a collector and you brag you got a great price. Enjoy the car and forget about it. Or, make up a sign and put it on the car permanently so everyone can know it has been painted and ruined...Not!
First, I'm very sorry this happened to you. Along with that, let me be clear that had it happened to me, I would be pretty angry. In fact, it almost did happen to me (I'll explain below) with a German car.
With that said, 1) The dealer did what was in their right to do so. It still makes it crappy, and we still would prefer that they tell us everything. It's very possible the specific sales person you dealt with didn't even know about it. While annoying and not how we would prefer to do business, they were within their legal rights, so I'm not sure what your options are here.
2) You looked over the car very carefully as you said, and you didn't notice anything wrong with the car. So, the repairs seem to be quality repairs, so much so that you can't tell the difference. Since the repair was done well and to your satisfaction, your best bet might be to forget about it, and enjoy the great car you bought. Of course, that's easy for me to say since it isn't MY car, but the repair doesn't show, and doesn't impact the performance of the car. The only issue is what you know today that you didn't know last week. Still looks great, still drives great, still is great.
3) Let me add, good for you for doing the research and following up to at least understand what happened to the car, even if the result sucks.
My quick story. We ordered my wife's (German) car. It came in during a huge snow storm. When we went to pick it up, the dealer tried to get me to sign the papers saying "there is one small problem, we will fix for you when you have time to bring it back to us....sign here. Obviously, I went to look at the car first. The dealer's employees decided using a snow shovel to clean the snow off the car was a good idea. They scratched the hood pretty badly, a little on the bumper, and chipped the windshield. I refused delivery and the dealer was kind enough to order me another car. I doubt they disclosed the damage to the next buyer.
Good luck, and I hope it works out for you, however you want it to.
Of course I know what a 'metaphor' is, however what you typed could easily be interpreted as a 'veiled' threat by any lawyer worth his salt.
You want something 'constructive' to help your problem? I'd start with a written documentation of the problem , delivered to the dealership, requesting a consult within two weeks to alleviate the problem. Then find a lawyer, if the situation does not satisfy you. I understand your angst, however, blowing off here, on unrelated issues, does not help your cause.
What others are saying does make sense, if you think about it. You inspected the car with a fine toothed comb and found nothing but a scratch. So the repairs are very well done.
Also, you stated that the Carfax just shows "vehicle serviced". This means down the road, the next buyer will have no idea what was done and in turn, shouldn't effect resale at all. You bought it after seeing the Carfax after all. It wasn't until you dug deeper that you discovered the cover up.
I'm not saying I agree with what the dealer did as far as covering it up, but it's sounding like everything they did was according to Idaho law. I would be steaming mad myself though!
First, I'm very sorry this happened to you. Along with that, let me be clear that had it happened to me, I would be pretty angry. In fact, it almost did happen to me (I'll explain below) with a German car.
With that said, 1) The dealer did what was in their right to do so. It still makes it crappy, and we still would prefer that they tell us everything. It's very possible the specific sales person you dealt with didn't even know about it. While annoying and not how we would prefer to do business, they were within their legal rights, so I'm not sure what your options are here.
2) You looked over the car very carefully as you said, and you didn't notice anything wrong with the car. So, the repairs seem to be quality repairs, so much so that you can't tell the difference. Since the repair was done well and to your satisfaction, your best bet might be to forget about it, and enjoy the great car you bought. Of course, that's easy for me to say since it isn't MY car, but the repair doesn't show, and doesn't impact the performance of the car. The only issue is what you know today that you didn't know last week. Still looks great, still drives great, still is great.
3) Let me add, good for you for doing the research and following up to at least understand what happened to the car, even if the result sucks.
My quick story. We ordered my wife's (German) car. It came in during a huge snow storm. When we went to pick it up, the dealer tried to get me to sign the papers saying "there is one small problem, we will fix for you when you have time to bring it back to us....sign here. Obviously, I went to look at the car first. The dealer's employees decided using a snow shovel to clean the snow off the car was a good idea. They scratched the hood pretty badly, a little on the bumper, and chipped the windshield. I refused delivery and the dealer was kind enough to order me another car. I doubt they disclosed the damage to the next buyer.
Good luck, and I hope it works out for you, however you want it to.
Thank you for your constructive thoughts. Regardless if the dealer was operating within Idaho laws its still wrong. They would not have been able to do that in many other states. Years ago I bought a new Audi A8 from a dealer in LA. The day I was to pick it up the salesman called me and told me he could not sell me that car. A porter had backed into a pole on the lot and damaged the rear end. Nothing super major and they could have fixed it and hid it but they did not. He found me another car. That's the right thing to do. Sadly doing the right thing is a dying art in this country.
Thank you for your constructive thoughts. Regardless if the dealer was operating within Idaho laws its still wrong. They would not have been able to do that in many other states. Years ago I bought a new Audi A8 from a dealer in LA. The day I was to pick it up the salesman called me and told me he could not sell me that car. A porter had backed into a pole on the lot and damaged the rear end. Nothing super major and they could have fixed it and hid it but they did not. He found me another car. That's the right thing to do. Sadly doing the right thing is a dying art in this country.
I totally agree with you and you should have been told about the damage repair that occurred from the drop off at the dealer and their inspection until the delivery to you after your final inspection. Your choice then based on the quality of repair made at the delearship.
You do realize cars cars are often damaged in the factory which is usually discovered and repaired right in the factory inspection area. Even Corvettes. Note in this picture not just what looks like a repair in progress, but look a the tools along both wall available to those making minor repairs. Is that any less an issue?
Buying a previously wrecked car as new, is not what montanaman bargained for. He's already experiencing seam paint flaking before he discovered that he had been hoodwinked by the Chev. dealer. Montanaman thought he was buying a new car. Not a new, wrecked car. I'm thinking he wouldn't have bought the car without the dealership having to hoodwink him.
If disclosing that the new wrecked car makes no difference to the hoodwinked customer, then why wasn't it disclosed by the Chev. dealer before he bought it?
Ask for your money back based on your facts and move on, and purchase a car you want!
That is exactly what I am doing. I tried to call the GM ( Eric Smith) and of course the operator starts asking questions trying to find out why I am calling and refuses to put me through to his voice mail or to even give me his e-mail. She said she didn't have it. More lies. Isn't that special? Finding his e-mail on line was impossible as well so I took an educated guess based on the other e-mail addresses I have and copied the business manager who wrote it up.
I sent them a copy of the damage report from their shop and told them that what they did is unacceptable. I gave the the choice of taking the car back with a full refund. replacing the car with a new replica or going to court.
I can only hope they do the right thing but I'm going to have to plan for the 3rd option because that's the way people/business rolls these days.
I would be upset as well and feel deceived by the dealer since they didn't disclose any report of damage on what is supposed to be a new car in perfect condition. However, if the repairs were performed to your satisfaction and the price met your expectations then once the initial anger of deception subsides you will feel better. Some things to consider... How much more discount would you have needed to purchase the car if you knew of the prior damage? My point is that someone was going to purchase that car even if they disclosed it had body work, it is just a matter of time and price.
Maybe the dealer can offer you additional discount instead of taking the car back. If the car has reported Carfax damage then I would tell the dealer you need some additional price concessions as a result of its diminished value or you would prefer a different car.
Well I guess it was too good to be true. The smoking hot deal I made on my "new" 2017 Arctic white C7 looks like it wasn't so hot after all. I'll try to make this as brief as I can. It's hard to type when I have smoke coming out of my ears.
I bought the car 2 weeks ago at Dave Smith Dodge,Ram, Chevy blah blah in Kellogg Idaho. Oddly enough one of the biggest dealerships in the country. In the middle of nowhere. The car was parked in their showroom right in front of the bimbo salesperson I was working with. I looked over the car carefully before I said yes. In fact I pretty much detailed it right in their showroom as it had gotten dusty and had a few marks ( white car) that I needed to see disappear. The very front of the bumper had a small scratch that had been touched up and I saw it, knew it and used it to my advantage. Who wouldn't? I had the sales idiot print me a Car Fax even though it was a new car to see what I could see. She said " nobody asks for a Car fax on a new car". There were about 6 items including delivery inspection, windows tinted and 2 other "service" line items at like 26 and 32 miles. I assumed those were probably an oil change, the new battery or something minimal. NOT.
I called the service department there today to see what those were for because I wanted to know if they had changed the 2 year old oil. Here is the kicker. They were both to replace damage on the car and it was major.I'm about crying as I write this. They started to read off the damage report and then I had her send me over to the body shop to get more info. They sent a sheet of the shop repairs including labor, materials and paint to fix this new car. The front end must have gotten hit because the front bumper assembly came off and was apparently fixed and repainted. The left front fender also came off and was "repaired,finished and repainted". It also looks like they had to replace the black fender vent. The front center,right and left skid plate have been replaced. Looks like both rocker panels were damaged and repaired and repainted not replaced. The list goes on. I just learned all this and all I can say is it's going to be ugly tomorrow for them. This car has been twice in their body shop for body and paint work and they hid it. I should have gone right over to the service manager while I was there and ask what every line item was but I didn't and now I'm hosed. 90% of people wouldn't even think to pull a Car Fax on a new car let alone delve into the details but I should have knowing that the car had been in a winter dealership for 2 years. It probably got hit by a snowplow. The first round of damage was definitely shipping. I wonder how many other new cars out there have had body work done before they were sold. Kind of makes you think.
So now the excitement of owning this great car is shot and sadly this will be the last domestic vehicle I ever buy. Before I hear the choruses of "that could have happened to any car" my answer is "not likely". Frickin GM doesn't even know how to ship these vehicles properly. I've read other damage reports on new C7's due to shipping. This type of thing should never happen and many of the other issues that are reported on new GM,Ford and Chrysler cars/trucks are just ridiculous. Panel gaps not in spec, fenders rubbing paint off, transmission issues ,AC compressors failing (Ford),more paint issues, I mean come on its 2018 ....learn how to screw a car together for God sake. I know it happens to BMW and Mercedes and all the rest but you know what? Not in my experience. My wife's 2016 Mazda CX-5 is 3 years old with 40k miles and it has none this stuff happening. It's had two minor recalls and 3 oil changes and have a nice day. I never even looked at the panel gaps on that car because there is no reason to and they are all normal like every other non American car I've owned (about 15 )
So back to the issue. I now have a "new" ( 800 miles) 2017 C7 that has been in the body shop twice, has been pulled partially apart and parts repainted ( Instead of replaced). The question is what would you do and do I have any recourse against this dealership? I can say I will first calmly raise holy hell and if I get some BS run around from a sales monkey I'll take it to a higher court quickly. If I have to lawyer up I've got the time and I've got the money. Bottom line I want a new car. Curious to hear what you all think.
Anybody want to buy a nice 2017 C7 Arctic white? Didn't think so. Too bad because it really is a fun car to drive.
So sorry for your problems....but if it wouldn't be to much trouble....could I have the phone number of the Bimbo...
I would be upset as well and feel deceived by the dealer since they didn't disclose any report of damage on what is supposed to be a new car in perfect condition. However, if the repairs were performed to your satisfaction and the price met your expectations then once the initial anger of deception subsides you will feel better. Some things to consider... How much more discount would you have needed to purchase the car if you knew of the prior damage? My point is that someone was going to purchase that car even if they disclosed it had body work, it is just a matter of time and price.
Maybe the dealer can offer you additional discount instead of taking the car back. If the car has reported Carfax damage then I would tell the dealer you need some additional price concessions as a result of its diminished value or you would prefer a different car.
I would have never bought this car at any price ( well maybe 20k or so) had the dealer disclosed the damage that was done. I would have walked. And I'm not a paint and body expert but the guy who installed the clear bra immediately pointed out where the fender panel had rubbed paint off the front facia. I'm not trained to know that and I can't tell if they did a great job fixing and repainting. But I know it was done. It looks ok but I'm color blind and I couldn't tell you if the panels that were repainted have a different shade of white. Its the first thing people look for when buying a used car. You look for orange peel and body panels to see if the car is straight and has been touched by a body shop. This car has. Twice. Now I know why the front bumper is rubbing. Because its been on and off the car twice!
At this point I just want them to take back the car and that is the right thing to do. I'll put my chips back together and maybe buy a new one in Arizona this winter where the cars are not subject to the severe conditions that exist in the northern tier of this country. I don't think I will ever buy a car that is from a dealership that see's a lot of winter.
That is exactly what I am doing. I tried to call the GM ( Eric Smith) and of course the operator starts asking questions trying to find out why I am calling and refuses to put me through to his voice mail or to even give me his e-mail. She said she didn't have it. More lies. Isn't that special? Finding his e-mail on line was impossible as well so I took an educated guess based on the other e-mail addresses I have and copied the business manager who wrote it up.
I sent them a copy of the damage report from their shop and told them that what they did is unacceptable. I gave the the choice of taking the car back with a full refund. replacing the car with a new replica or going to court.
I can only hope they do the right thing but I'm going to have to plan for the 3rd option because that's the way people/business rolls these days.
Good luck getting what you want, I'm curious to hear their reply. I really don't think they will give you your money back or replace the car. I'm betting that they will try to offer you a longer warranty and/or free maintenance. Personally if it were me I would be mad about it too but after looking it over as much as you did and didn't find anything wrong with the repair I would see what they would offer me and take what I could get and keep the car. You stated in the OP that it's a fun car to drive so I wouldn't let it bother me and would continue to enjoy the car.
montanaman,
I just texted the dealership to get a message through to Eric Smith about your new car. The secretary said she'd get it to him. 👍
Well thank you. I've sent the first missile over the bow and I'm sure they are circling the wagons to figure out their course of action. No response will be a bad choice for them. There is precedent out there in the world that a new car sold with undisclosed body damage creates "diminished value" and is not acceptable regardless of any state law.
They just need to buy the car back and sell it as a used vehicle. They might even get what I paid for it. Who knows.
Good luck getting what you want, I'm curious to hear their reply. I really don't think they will give you your money back or replace the car. I'm betting that they will try to offer you a longer warranty and/or free maintenance. Personally if it were me I would be mad about it too but after looking it over as much as you did and didn't find anything wrong with the repair I would see what they would offer me and take what I could get and keep the car. You stated in the OP that it's a fun car to drive so I wouldn't let it bother me and would continue to enjoy the car.
It's mostly about resale value. I can't know how they repair the rocker panels on this car when they are cracked. How do they fix a cracked piece of fiberglass/plastic. I don't know. I'm not a body repair shop. I guess I can take it to a body shop and get see if they can tell if it was repainted but that's the problem. I don't want to have to nor should I have to do this on a new car. I hope your wrong about what they will not do. They have a huge reputation to uphold and if they are smart they will own it and buy it back.
A long time ago(1966) my Mom bought a "new" 1966 Buick from the local Buick dealer. She went to the dealer one weekday evening and looked at the car that was on the showroom floor with window sticker in place and 4 miles on the odometer. She worked her deal, bought the car, and the dealer said she could pick it up the next day. She did, and the first thing she noticed while driving it back to her place of employment was that the speedometer wasn't working.
She returned the next day and they "repaired" the speedometer.
She bought the car with a 90 day note at the bank where she worked in the installment loan dept. When she sold her old car she pulled the records so she could then take out a 24 month loan, only to discover that the title showed that the car was previously sold, 6 months before she bought it.
Turned out that the car had been sold to the owner of the advertising firm that handled the dealer's advertising. He bought the car, left the window sticker in place and the speedometer was disconnected, then returned it in 6 months to buy another new Buick.
My Mom sued the Buick dealer in a civil trial and won. The jury didn't like the idea of car dealers selling "new" cars multiple times(clearly fraud),
With the "actual" damages(what she paid for the car vs what it was worth as a used car) plus punitive damages, she got the car for free, even after paying her lawyer.
The car had had no body damages etc. like the OP's car, but the car was misrepresented by the dealer to my Mom.
08-31-2018, 11:03 AM
