C7 General Discussion General C7 Corvette Discussion not covered in Tech
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Houston we have a problem... new damaged car

Old 08-30-2018, 11:16 PM
  #1  
montanaman
Racer
Thread Starter
 
montanaman's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2018
Location: N/A
Posts: 391
Received 68 Likes on 56 Posts
Default Houston we have a problem... new damaged car

Well I guess it was too good to be true. The smoking hot deal I made on my "new" 2017 Arctic white C7 looks like it wasn't so hot after all. I'll try to make this as brief as I can. It's hard to type when I have smoke coming out of my ears.

I bought the car 2 weeks ago at Dave Smith Dodge,Ram, Chevy blah blah in Kellogg Idaho. Oddly enough one of the biggest dealerships in the country. In the middle of nowhere. The car was parked in their showroom right in front of the bimbo salesperson I was working with. I looked over the car carefully before I said yes. In fact I pretty much detailed it right in their showroom as it had gotten dusty and had a few
So now the excitement of owning this great car is shot and sadly this will be the last domestic vehicle I ever buy. Before I hear the choruses of "that could have happened to any car" my answer is "not likely". Frickin GM doesn't even know how to ship these vehicles properly. I've read other damage reports on new C7's due to shipping. This type of thing should never happen and many of the other issues that are reported on new GM,Ford and Chrysler cars/trucks are just ridiculous. Panel gaps not in spec, fenders rubbing paint off, transmission issues ,AC compressors failing (Ford),more paint issues, I mean come on its 2018 ....learn how to screw a car together for God sake. I know it happens to BMW and Mercedes and all the rest but you know what? Not in my experience. My wife's 2016 Mazda CX-5 is 3 years old with 40k miles and it has none this stuff happening. It's had two minor recalls and 3 oil changes and have a nice day. I never even looked at the panel gaps on that car because there is no reason to and they are all normal like every other non American car I've owned (about 15 )

So back to the issue. I now have a "new" ( 800 miles) 2017 C7 that has been in the body shop twice, has been pulled partially apart and parts repainted ( Instead of replaced). The question is what would you do and do I have any recourse against this dealership? I can say I will first calmly raise holy hell and if I get some BS run around from a sales monkey I'll take it to a higher court quickly. If I have to lawyer up I've got the time and I've got the money. Bottom line I want a new car. Curious to hear what you all think.

Anybody want to buy a nice 2017 C7 Arctic white? Didn't think so. Too bad because it really is a fun car to drive.

Last edited by montanaman; 06-25-2020 at 10:27 AM. Reason: spelling
The following users liked this post:
Deweyox (09-01-2018)

Popular Reply

09-14-2018, 09:06 AM
dork
Drifting
 
dork's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2012
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,293
Received 224 Likes on 143 Posts
Default

I'm gonna be as unpopular as a turd in a swimmin' pool...
I read about half the initial post by the OP with sympathy; then I read the rest of the thread (and the rest of his post) for its' (humorous) entertainment (to me).

It's obvious that a lotta folks don't know how dealerships are structured, with various writers posting the procedures they'd either take or expect in a "soured" dealer transaction. Several things come to mind, flooding my thoughts with an 'overlap' of "deniable" actions.

The OP "detailed" the car on the showroom floor looking for flaws and found one one the bumper which he leveraged for a $20,000 discount. (I didn't read the entire thread, but I got that far.) In his post revealing the discount he negotiated, (paraphrasing) he claimed it would have been a great discount had the car been pristine/"brand new". Somehow, this discount is no longer enviable because the flaws he couldn't find were revealed solely by documentation from the dealer(!!). HE couldn't find it, and an inspection by a professional painter didn't find any flaws in the repairs.

I was an auto-painter in NorCal's largest Chevy/Honda/Lexus dealership for a spell and painted cars for 12 years. I taught auto painting as a course at the local trade school. I've got experience writing repair orders, assessing damage, and dealing with transport/lot damage. As much as there is outrage over the business practice of unreported repairs, it is not only common, but legal. I wouldn't doubt it if it was claimed that 20% of all the paint work in my former shop was "transport/lot damage". Shipping is different now, but back in my day, they were shipped on open railroad cars. LOTS of vandalism damage from rocks, eggs, etc. done by kids on the rolling stock.

Dealers don't separate loss by 'body', 'paint' or 'mechanical'... they're tallied as line items and totaled out; the owners only care about taxable profit/loss totals. On the showroom floor, only the (specific) shop foreman and the repair technician would ever know which car was fixed. Body/Paint repair orders don't follow the car to the floor; they're sent to Accounting. The sales force doesn't care how much the "overhead" was changed on a single vehicle, nor would they even know or hear about it unless it was common knowledge because of a spectacular accident/incident. Most, like the OP, couldn't find a repair if you pointed it out unless you explained to the viewer what s/he was looking at.

To claim that the dealership is somehow "liable" for some perceived slight is naive at best. (By "perceived slight", I mean that the OP never found any of the other repairs aside from the bumper; it took a pro to tell him that the documention confirmed what the pro couldn't detect--that there had been repairs done.) So... WHAT loss in resale value?? The Carfax didn't specify any body damage, the OP missed 'all' of it, and the pro he took it to couldn't find fault.

It was good for the morning laugh to read this thread; all his fuming and threatening, ranting about Euro cars, Ford, etc., etc. Jimmy crack corn. What's all that got to do with the price of a discounted white Corvette? Go to a gun store- how do you know that "new" gun hasn't been back to the OEM for repairs because the dealer found fault? (and you'll never know) Go to a furniture store... they'll never tell you if the showroom leather recliner had to be cleaned for transportation damage (grease, soda pop, mustard, anything)- it's all sold as new despite a thousand butts (and kids) testing/rocking the chair. Go to the grocery store and buy a jar of grape jam. Who's to say the lid at its' seal hasn't been wiped down with some dirty old rag because another jar broke and ants swarmed it for days until it was detected- buy a can of soup... who can say absolutely that the employees in the back haven't stood on the cans climbing inventory to get to something else that was stacked higher? Still sold as new, and for most ya'll, you opened it at home without a thought as that lid top that falls into your soup has been walked on by shoes that have been who knows where... "new".

Yeah, it's a $60-100,000 car. Flagship and all, "I'M BUYING A CORVETTE AND I EXPECT MORE". Um, I don't think so. It's a commodity; sold for profit by strangers to strangers. Laws have been created to define minimal sales conduct; whether the potential buyer likes the idea of undeclared "refurbished" goods or not, it's legally ethical to repair damaged products (up to a point) and sell them as new. And when he missed it all and thought he was getting a deal that even Carfax didn't reveal, it was all good.

Ah, entitlement... as a former professional painter with a completely different insight, that what it seems like; and the "complaint"/responses were a lot of fun to read. Flame suit on.
Old 08-30-2018, 11:23 PM
  #2  
Skid Row Joe
Team Owner
 
Skid Row Joe's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 27,219
Received 3,962 Likes on 2,872 Posts

Default

montanaman,

​​​​​​​Sorry to read this on your car. Do you have any of these on writing? If you do, immediately file a lawsuit against the dealership, if they won't take the car back. That's my line of what I'd do - immediately.
The following users liked this post:
Deweyox (09-01-2018)
Old 08-30-2018, 11:23 PM
  #3  
Ron'sGS
Burning Brakes
 
Ron'sGS's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2016
Location: Round Rock, TX
Posts: 1,076
Received 266 Likes on 198 Posts
Default


Sounds like there was extensive damage done to the car if they had to repair the rocker panels. I wouldn’t want the car if it was sold under the pretense of a new leftover unsold 2017 and the damage wasn’t disclosed at the time of sale. My opinion.

Last edited by Ron'sGS; 08-30-2018 at 11:28 PM.
Old 08-30-2018, 11:29 PM
  #4  
Vetteman Jack
Administrator

Support Corvetteforum!
 
Vetteman Jack's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2001
Location: In a parallel universe. Currently own 2014 Stingray Coupe.
Posts: 342,579
Received 19,186 Likes on 13,910 Posts
C7 of the Year - Modified Finalist 2021
MO Events Coordinator
St. Jude Co-Organizer
St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19-
'20-'21-'22-'23-'24
NCM Sinkhole Donor
CI 5, 8 & 11 Veteran


Default

See what the dealership will do and if not to your satisfaction, at least consult with a lawyer and get some legal advice. Sorry you are having to go through this - no way that dealer should have kept that damage a secret from you.
Old 08-30-2018, 11:36 PM
  #5  
DeAdEnD
Heel & Toe
 
DeAdEnD's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2018
Location: IL
Posts: 22
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

So is this something one should normally do, have a car fax pulled on a new car? I honestly want to know....
The following users liked this post:
ed.john (09-01-2018)
Old 08-30-2018, 11:43 PM
  #6  
Sconn
Burning Brakes
 
Sconn's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2018
Location: Washington State
Posts: 852
Likes: 0
Received 290 Likes on 195 Posts
Default

You're right...Dave Smith is a huge dealership. It's shocking and disappointing to hear about this. I'm hopeful they'll make it right for you.

Seems like I read somewhere that there is an extent of damage/repair that they don't have to disclose, but after a certain point, they are supposed to? Might wanna research that....

Also, on my car's Carfax report, it shows that it's "guaranteed accident free". Does your report show this? I assume so... You may be able to go back on Car Fax too?


Good luck and keep us posted!


Last edited by Sconn; 08-30-2018 at 11:45 PM.
Old 08-30-2018, 11:44 PM
  #7  
Sixgun95
Drifting

 
Sixgun95's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Posts: 1,353
Received 235 Likes on 124 Posts

Default

I would speak directly to the GM and tell him what would make you happy. No progress, then get a lawyer to write them a letter stating the facts. That will likely get you to where you need to be. Just a lot of aggravation, time and money over shady business practices.

One would think there would be some type of disclosure required by a dealership if the "new" car was damaged. Much like the voluntary disclosure required when you sell a house.

I know we have many lawyers here, interested to hear their thoughts. Speak up!!
Old 08-30-2018, 11:46 PM
  #8  
Kevin A Jones
Race Director
 
Kevin A Jones's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 12,783
Received 11,544 Likes on 5,536 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by DeAdEnD
So is this something one should normally do, have a car fax pulled on a new car? I honestly want to know....
I do, if the car is a leftover, has more than 15/20 miles on it and/or has been on a dealer's lot for a while.

OP, you shouldn't have any trouble voiding the sale if they represented it as a 'new' car and didn't divulge the body damage/repair.
The following users liked this post:
23/C8Z (09-01-2018)
Old 08-30-2018, 11:52 PM
  #9  
Sconn
Burning Brakes
 
Sconn's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2018
Location: Washington State
Posts: 852
Likes: 0
Received 290 Likes on 195 Posts
Default

Ok. I looked again at my car's Carfax again and it states that if damage, etc was reported to the DMV and they don't list it, they'll buy it back.. So that shoots that suggestion.
​​​​Just fyi... My car originally came from Dave Smith too.

Last edited by Sconn; 08-30-2018 at 11:53 PM.
Old 08-31-2018, 12:07 AM
  #10  
KenHorse
Team Owner
 
KenHorse's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2007
Location: I live my life by 2 rules. 1) Never share everything you know. 2)
Posts: 136,148
Received 2,400 Likes on 1,365 Posts
St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13, '16-'17-'18

Default

Ordered my 2014 Z51 through them because they were offering a $3K discount off MSRP when everyone else was charging OVER MSRP (November of 2013).

Not only was it the best car buying experience of my life (utterly painless and easy), the delivery and car were just fine.

Last edited by KenHorse; 08-31-2018 at 12:08 AM.
Old 08-31-2018, 12:15 AM
  #11  
Sconn
Burning Brakes
 
Sconn's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2018
Location: Washington State
Posts: 852
Likes: 0
Received 290 Likes on 195 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by KenHorse
Ordered my 2014 Z51 through them because they were offering a $3K discount off MSRP when everyone else was charging OVER MSRP (November of 2013).

Not only was it the best car buying experience of my life (utterly painless and easy), the delivery and car were just fine.
I've never heard anything negative about this dealership either. I see 'Dave Smith" plates all over the place. They are very well known... I'll be interested to see how they handle this.
Old 08-31-2018, 12:19 AM
  #12  
rb185afm
Drifting
 
rb185afm's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,441
Received 551 Likes on 327 Posts

Default

I would be livid if my brand new car had an undisclosed accident history. Good luck, hopefully someone along the line does the right thing.
Old 08-31-2018, 12:29 AM
  #13  
Skid Row Joe
Team Owner
 
Skid Row Joe's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 27,219
Received 3,962 Likes on 2,872 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by DeAdEnD
So is this something one should normally do, have a car fax pulled on a new car? I honestly want to know....
It couldn't hurt to run a Carfax on any new car before you buy it. I always pull a Carfax on used cars, but this sheds the light on how badly a customer can be treated by a new car dealership.

There's a guy here on forum from Houston, Texas advising to never ever pull a Carfax on a used car. That's sheer lunatic advise, from any perspective.
Old 08-31-2018, 12:36 AM
  #14  
montanaman
Racer
Thread Starter
 
montanaman's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2018
Location: N/A
Posts: 391
Received 68 Likes on 56 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by KenHorse
Ordered my 2014 Z51 through them because they were offering a $3K discount off MSRP when everyone else was charging OVER MSRP (November of 2013).

Not only was it the best car buying experience of my life (utterly painless and easy), the delivery and car were just fine.

That's nice. I don't think this is the only place this has or could have happened. It just happens to be Dave Smith. I'm sure they have thousands of perfect transactions. This wasn't one of them. Good news is they are one of the biggest and you know what they say.. " the bigger they are"......
Old 08-31-2018, 12:38 AM
  #15  
montanaman
Racer
Thread Starter
 
montanaman's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2018
Location: N/A
Posts: 391
Received 68 Likes on 56 Posts
Default

And yes to pulling a Car Fax on every vehicle new or used. It's mandatory. Even if the sales person says there is no Carfax on a new car. Just more lies from car salesman.
Old 08-31-2018, 12:40 AM
  #16  
montanaman
Racer
Thread Starter
 
montanaman's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2018
Location: N/A
Posts: 391
Received 68 Likes on 56 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Kevin A Jones
I do, if the car is a leftover, has more than 15/20 miles on it and/or has been on a dealer's lot for a while.

OP, you shouldn't have any trouble voiding the sale if they represented it as a 'new' car and didn't divulge the body damage/repair.
Your lips to God's ears....
Old 08-31-2018, 01:10 AM
  #17  
Skid Row Joe
Team Owner
 
Skid Row Joe's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 27,219
Received 3,962 Likes on 2,872 Posts

Default

montanaman,

Consider pulling the above attachments. I think it best to keep the information contained for you only at this stage. You're such an honest guy, you don't want to give away info at this point. I'm just real sorry for your situation at this time.

Get notified of new replies

To Houston we have a problem... new damaged car

Old 08-31-2018, 01:33 AM
  #18  
robertbruce
Le Mans Master

Support Corvetteforum!
 
robertbruce's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2013
Location: Morrill Nebraska
Posts: 5,092
Received 3,221 Likes on 1,580 Posts

Default

Delete the part about burning the dealership down.
The following 5 users liked this post by robertbruce:
Deweyox (09-01-2018), frankb (08-31-2018), Movie Muscle (09-02-2018), spinkick (09-01-2018), USMC 0802 (08-31-2018)
Old 08-31-2018, 07:46 AM
  #19  
AORoads
Team Owner
 
AORoads's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2005
Location: Northern, VA
Posts: 46,100
Received 2,477 Likes on 1,940 Posts
St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"

Default

Originally Posted by Ron'sGS

Sounds like there was extensive damage done to the car if they had to repair the rocker panels. I wouldn’t want the car if it was sold under the pretense of a new leftover unsold 2017 and the damage wasn’t disclosed at the time of sale. My opinion.
Oh c'mon, the numerous stories of dealerships that run cars up on a lift and damage rocker panels?

As to OP, doesn't look like "Houston" has a problem but Montana does. I wouldn't expect the damages described in a new car, even a two year old, new car. But the damage was fixed, and if it's the epoxy glued rocker panels of the prior gen Corvette, it is almost never pulled off and replaced---so, you are mistaken to believe that replacement due to damage is a normal procedure. They do get cracked easily and regularly, not by everyone but it's not uncommon.

You can ask for anything you want, but if they give you a straight-up new car, meaning a '19 for your '17, they are unusual. You might like to ck first but every state seems to have a different threshold as to how much dollar damage on a new car has to occur before disclosure, possibly with a consumer affairs agency, or state attorney general's office. That would be helpful info to have before talking with the dealer about a new car for yours.

Lawyering up is a right of America, but the true damages to you might be less than the bill for services. jmo. Maybe a case for deceit or fraud but I don't know that for a fact and a lawyer will advise you in that first, hopefully free, hour of counsel and wisdom.


Good luck. If this dealer is smart, altho you may think right now there is little they can do to make you a satisfied customer, there may be something besides giving you a new car. I hope so for your sake. And so that we can read a happy-story resolution follow up thread.

Edit: If I were that dealer, I might apologize profusely and search the country for a new '17 in perfect condition as close to your model as possible and do the switch. Then, take your car and list it as used-for-sale.

Last edited by AORoads; 08-31-2018 at 07:51 AM.
The following users liked this post:
speedlink (08-31-2018)
Old 08-31-2018, 07:56 AM
  #20  
Baltimoron
Racer
 
Baltimoron's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2017
Location: Annapolis MD
Posts: 280
Received 71 Likes on 49 Posts
Default

While I certainly feel for you about the situation with this car and dealership, I also am wondering why you bought it in the first place, based on your follow up rant about how domestic auto makers seemingly can’t do anything right. Certainly, that opinion wasn’t created based on this experience alone. Honestly, it takes away from your initial, and seemingly totally valid complaint by allowing it to tailspin into a rant about delivery issues, and poor panel fit, particularly when citing Ford and Chrysler into it all. They literally had 0 to do with what happened to you.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Houston we have a problem... new damaged car



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:41 AM.