C7 to be the last manual Corvette?
09-15-2018, 08:52 AM
#141
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Originally Posted by VetteDrmr
Just out of curiosity, how come? I know I have my concerns, but they're all based on previous MR designs, so I don't know how GM would package things to solve the classic problems (hard to maintain, heat, etc.).
Have a good one,
Mike
Have a good one,
Mike
09-15-2018, 08:55 AM
#142
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Originally Posted by JDSKY
How can an attempt at evolving the Corvette into the fastest, most technological car they can equate to "turning it into a generic run of the mill super-car?"
None of the super-car brands you name are "run of the mill" and bringing more of what they have to a Corvette hardly makes it generic and definitely not less desirable. These cars represent qualities that every sports car enthusiast desires. The Corvette is America's sports car. One that embodies many of the qualities of these cars at a price a large swath of Americans can actually own and enjoy whether it's owning a current gen or even more affordable previous generation version of it.
Bottom line is every product must evolve and change or die. The good news for the Corvette die-hard fans that refuse to adapt or change there will always be a plentiful supply of a generation or two that they love.
None of the super-car brands you name are "run of the mill" and bringing more of what they have to a Corvette hardly makes it generic and definitely not less desirable. These cars represent qualities that every sports car enthusiast desires. The Corvette is America's sports car. One that embodies many of the qualities of these cars at a price a large swath of Americans can actually own and enjoy whether it's owning a current gen or even more affordable previous generation version of it.
Bottom line is every product must evolve and change or die. The good news for the Corvette die-hard fans that refuse to adapt or change there will always be a plentiful supply of a generation or two that they love.
To me they are all identical clones of each other with slightly different "trick gizmos." This issue is the cars are designed to be homologated track cars not usable devices. I like cool cars but if it's not usable as a car then to me it's just a rich mans toy to brag about how important he is.
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raylo (09-15-2018)
09-15-2018, 08:59 AM
#143
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Originally Posted by spinkick
Dct is not automatic. At least, not in the traditional slow shifting A8 sense
Just your every day, run of the mill supercar
Just your every day, run of the mill supercar
To me a GT type car as an idea is superior to super and hyper cars. The Ferrari 812 Superfast and it's predecessors are better than the Ferrari 488 and it's predecessors. Lambo, Porsche, and McLaren don't even offer proper FMR GT type cars. Mercedes at least does for now.
09-15-2018, 09:43 AM
#144
Le Mans Master
funny you mentioned the new m5... my cousin traded in his m3 for the 2018 e63s which he traded in literally 3 days later for the new m5 and 2 weeks after that found himself back at bmw trading in his brand new m5 for another m3 believe it or not. No matter how good they make an automatic after having a dct none will compare. My cousin learned the hard way a month and almost 20k dollars later he learned that the personality that a dct gives a car is pretty much unmatched. The last gen m5 and current m6 were a lot more fun to drive even with the added power of the newer model. To me going back to an auto is a big step backwards even though they are really good.
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Maxpowers (09-15-2018)
09-15-2018, 09:56 AM
#145
Instructor
This is a GOOD thing.
All the top tier sport cars in the mid 2000s that have completely gone away from full 3 pedal manuals, all the manual versions have SPIKED big time in value. A late 200x model BMW M whatever, manual Ferraris, manual Porsches, especially pre 996, manual Lambos, ALL are fetching values 5-20% HIGHER than their auto or automated manual counterparts.
Meanwhile it hasn't stopped or slowed down sales of sporty or sports cars in general (slow down in sport car sales has more to do with a ton of other factors, not the death of the manual) and those of us with M7 Corvettes will have the LAST of a long, LONG line of fine automobiles of its kind. I'd imagine 15 years from now, M7 C7s will be fetching quite a bit higher value than their automatic counterparts too.
Bring on AUTOMATIC only C8s.
All the top tier sport cars in the mid 2000s that have completely gone away from full 3 pedal manuals, all the manual versions have SPIKED big time in value. A late 200x model BMW M whatever, manual Ferraris, manual Porsches, especially pre 996, manual Lambos, ALL are fetching values 5-20% HIGHER than their auto or automated manual counterparts.
Meanwhile it hasn't stopped or slowed down sales of sporty or sports cars in general (slow down in sport car sales has more to do with a ton of other factors, not the death of the manual) and those of us with M7 Corvettes will have the LAST of a long, LONG line of fine automobiles of its kind. I'd imagine 15 years from now, M7 C7s will be fetching quite a bit higher value than their automatic counterparts too.
Bring on AUTOMATIC only C8s.
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Foosh (09-15-2018)
09-15-2018, 10:03 AM
#146
Melting Slicks
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So as I'm driving down the road today loving my M7 I though, damn the C8 will not have a manual sooooo when the C7 becomes history (I know the 2 should be sold together for some time) will that leave the world with no corvette manual? Bound to happen sooner or later but to soon.
As the old Chinese curse has it: “May you live in interesting times,” the twenty-first century will probably be one of the most “interesting” periods
09-15-2018, 12:03 PM
#147
Safety Car
funny you mentioned the new m5... my cousin traded in his m3 for the 2018 e63s which he traded in literally 3 days later for the new m5 and 2 weeks after that found himself back at bmw trading in his brand new m5 for another m3 believe it or not. No matter how good they make an automatic after having a dct none will compare. My cousin learned the hard way a month and almost 20k dollars later he learned that the personality that a dct gives a car is pretty much unmatched. The last gen m5 and current m6 were a lot more fun to drive even with the added power of the newer model. To me going back to an auto is a big step backwards even though they are really good.
09-15-2018, 01:17 PM
#148
Team Owner
Your thought process would have merit if that car was "in the tradition of the Corvette" in any other way. Which it's not. Mid-Engine, not in the tradition. OHC V8's not in the tradition. Turbocharging, not in the tradition. Hybrid options, not in the tradition. There have been changes in the Corvette sure, loss the of solid rear axle when the C2 came out, the move to leaf springs near the end of the C3 generation i the rear and with the C4 in the front, as well as the rear mounted transmission starting with the C5. But really there never has been as much of a "recasting" of the brand as there will be with this mid-engine car. Tradition is out the window, Tadge has said as much (and he doesn't care for tradition anyway), he and GM want to just build the fastest most technological car they can. Even if it means turning it into a generic run of the mill super-car (Mclaren/Ferrari/Lambo) clone. It's quite sad really. A Corvette was a unique car, just like a Viper was a unique car. Now they don't care about that and a lot of customers will go elsewhere.
09-15-2018, 01:38 PM
#149
Melting Slicks
Pretty boring looking.
To me a GT type car as an idea is superior to super and hyper cars. The Ferrari 812 Superfast and it's predecessors are better than the Ferrari 488 and it's predecessors. Lambo, Porsche, and McLaren don't even offer proper FMR GT type cars. Mercedes at least does for now.
To me a GT type car as an idea is superior to super and hyper cars. The Ferrari 812 Superfast and it's predecessors are better than the Ferrari 488 and it's predecessors. Lambo, Porsche, and McLaren don't even offer proper FMR GT type cars. Mercedes at least does for now.
09-15-2018, 01:41 PM
#150
Melting Slicks
I think the point the pro dct guys are saying is they it's not the same feel as an auto and you won't be bored. The manual guys are sceptical. Time will tell. Tremic doesn't have the volume to do manuals much any more.
09-15-2018, 01:55 PM
#151
Team Owner
First year maybe no manual to streamline production but after the first year there will be manuals offered.
twenty three percent of all corvettes purchased are manuals.
no sane manufacturer or corporate executive would pull the plug on an option that generates that kind of unjt volume.
im not sure the manual will be an option as gm tends to prefer to make the manual the standard transmission and the automatic the option...
we could see the manual as standard with a late term release...and as sales slow down a little ir at least become managable from a production meeting demand standpoint...the manual will come out for the showrooms.
(much the way tesla lists the 35grand 220 mile range battery pack and doesnt actually offer the standard 220 mile battery pack to the public to purchase for a year or so)
thats the play i see at worst coming from gm with regards to a manual transmission corvette if not available at the start of production.
twenty three percent of all corvettes purchased are manuals.
no sane manufacturer or corporate executive would pull the plug on an option that generates that kind of unjt volume.
im not sure the manual will be an option as gm tends to prefer to make the manual the standard transmission and the automatic the option...
we could see the manual as standard with a late term release...and as sales slow down a little ir at least become managable from a production meeting demand standpoint...the manual will come out for the showrooms.
(much the way tesla lists the 35grand 220 mile range battery pack and doesnt actually offer the standard 220 mile battery pack to the public to purchase for a year or so)
thats the play i see at worst coming from gm with regards to a manual transmission corvette if not available at the start of production.
No sane manufacturer would throw away nearly 14% of their business by not offering a convertible. Correct?.
But GM dropped the convertible and in 1976 they built 46,558 coupes and 0 convertibles. An increase in total production of 7,993 over 1975.
09-15-2018, 01:56 PM
#152
I am very familiar with both DCTs in BMW M3s, and PDKs in 911s. Those saying they're different and a bit more "responsive" than traditional autos are correct. However, those same people are dead wrong in opining that those passionate about manual transmissions will be satisfied with them. I found them boring and no where near as rewarding as driving a true manual sports car.
If I wanted a track car, I'd choose DCT because it will turn better lap times. For my street sports car, I want fun, and the DCT is just another boring automatic transmission.
If I wanted a track car, I'd choose DCT because it will turn better lap times. For my street sports car, I want fun, and the DCT is just another boring automatic transmission.
Last edited by Foosh; 09-15-2018 at 02:23 PM.
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09-15-2018, 04:29 PM
#153
Team Owner
I simply do not understand this. To my simple mind, if you don't have to intentionally shift gears using a clutch pedal and moving a shift lever, it's an automatic. If it shifts gears by itself, it's an automatic. Now I know a DCT has that word "clutch" in the acronym. But that's really immaterial to me as a driver. It's an academic distinction not worthy of note. Does a DCT shift "faster"? OK, if you say so, but I never thought my autos shifted unusually slowly and if it does shift faster, how does that make it not an automatic? They just shift by themselves. End of story. Of course, I don't track my cars, so there may be some other subtle advantage there I don't care about either. It just seems a pedantic distinction to me. All DCT means to me is "more expensive to repair." If it does not have a clutch pedal, it's an automatic. Why is this even under discussion?
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mschuyler (09-15-2018)
09-15-2018, 04:45 PM
#154
Le Mans Master
BUT, I'm keeping an open mind about GM being able to solve these issues satisfactorily.
Have a good one,
Mike
09-15-2018, 05:14 PM
#155
i also remember when they said the Z06 would never be offered with an automatic transmission because it would always be a track focused “bare bones” version of the Corvette, and they essentially said the same about the C6 ZR1. But with the C7 they caved in the name of selling more cars
09-15-2018, 05:15 PM
#156
Yep, if GM doesn't come up with a decent solution to the storage problem it's a loser for me. The ability to take a 2 week trip with my wife in great comfort is key to me. Maintenance and cost of ownership is big as well.
BUT, I'm keeping an open mind about GM being able to solve these issues satisfactorily.
Have a good one,
Mike
BUT, I'm keeping an open mind about GM being able to solve these issues satisfactorily.
Have a good one,
Mike
09-15-2018, 05:29 PM
#158
We won't know for sure until the C8 is revealed with specs. Depends how much the hood is shortened for the C8. The rear has to get longer to accommodate the engine. To keep over all length the same something has to give. That is not to say the front won't have the same equivalent storage volume. It might be different. It might be narrower and deeper where the present storage is wide and shallow.
09-15-2018, 05:36 PM
#159
Le Mans Master
We won't know for sure until the C8 is revealed with specs. Depends how much the hood is shortened for the C8. The rear has to get longer to accommodate the engine. To keep over all length the same something has to give. That is not to say the front won't have the same equivalent storage volume. It might be different. It might be narrower and deeper where the present storage is wide and shallow.
Have a good one,
Mike
09-15-2018, 06:50 PM
#160
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Originally Posted by spinkick
To each their own. This car to me has a super exciting look. Everyone that complains that mid engines all look the same are boring must also think a fighter jet looks boring. I understand everyone has their own opinion, but I can't figure it out.
Mid-engine cars are race cars for the road. Which I want nothing to do with.