C7 to be the last manual Corvette?
09-15-2018, 06:53 PM
#161
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Originally Posted by JoesC5
GM built 33,836 coupes and 4,629 convertibles in 1975.
No sane manufacturer would throw away nearly 14% of their business by not offering a convertible. Correct?.
But GM dropped the convertible and in 1976 they built 46,558 coupes and 0 convertibles. An increase in total production of 7,993 over 1975.
No sane manufacturer would throw away nearly 14% of their business by not offering a convertible. Correct?.
But GM dropped the convertible and in 1976 they built 46,558 coupes and 0 convertibles. An increase in total production of 7,993 over 1975.
09-15-2018, 08:41 PM
#164
Moderator
09-15-2018, 09:04 PM
#165
Le Mans Master
Have a good one,
Mike
09-15-2018, 10:04 PM
#166
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I simply do not understand this. To my simple mind, if you don't have to intentionally shift gears using a clutch pedal and moving a shift lever, it's an automatic. If it shifts gears by itself, it's an automatic. Now I know a DCT has that word "clutch" in the acronym. But that's really immaterial to me as a driver. It's an academic distinction not worthy of note. Does a DCT shift "faster"? OK, if you say so, but I never thought my autos shifted unusually slowly and if it does shift faster, how does that make it not an automatic? They just shift by themselves. End of story. Of course, I don't track my cars, so there may be some other subtle advantage there I don't care about either. It just seems a pedantic distinction to me. All DCT means to me is "more expensive to repair." If it does not have a clutch pedal, it's an automatic. Why is this even under discussion?
I'd expand on your point and say if I can't disconnect power during a gear change for an interval which I can control on a per change basis then the car is not a manual transmission. many of these other may not be "fully automatic" but they are all "partially automatic" which isn't good enough for me.
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mschuyler (09-16-2018)
09-15-2018, 11:51 PM
#167
09-16-2018, 08:35 AM
#168
Team Owner
Point is that even if the manual transmission is deleted, that does not mean that sales of Corvettes will drop by a corresponding amount.
09-16-2018, 09:10 AM
#169
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
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For the "majority" of Vettes they need a double overhead cam, 4 valve/cylinder, separate exhaust and intake variable cam timing, small displacement engine to meet their corporate MPG goals. Tough to stuff one of those in a front engine, low sports car. Fits just fine behind the driver. They should also be able to make the car lighter with a single drivetrain block.
Sure there will be a dual large turbo version for Z06/ZR1 type performance but they can control that number with price to keep the overall Vette sales MPG contribution lower. Like the current Ford GT 3.5 liter 647 hp engine, it can be done.
We'll see!
Last edited by JerryU; 09-16-2018 at 09:12 AM.
09-16-2018, 11:38 AM
#170
Le Mans Master
I am very familiar with both DCTs in BMW M3s, and PDKs in 911s. Those saying they're different and a bit more "responsive" than traditional autos are correct. However, those same people are dead wrong in opining that those passionate about manual transmissions will be satisfied with them. I found them boring and no where near as rewarding as driving a true manual sports car.
If I wanted a track car, I'd choose DCT because it will turn better lap times. For my street sports car, I want fun, and the DCT is just another boring automatic transmission.
If I wanted a track car, I'd choose DCT because it will turn better lap times. For my street sports car, I want fun, and the DCT is just another boring automatic transmission.
i said the same thing.... I didn’t want to consider anything that wasn’t a manual when I traded in my last corvette for the hellcat. I drove both versions manual and auto and chose the auto as it was just 100 times better. When trading in the hellcat for my current m3 I was convinced I would get it in a manual as well. Drove both the manual and DCT and again chose the "auto". Was also considering a zl1 and drove both transmissions and again if I were to have gotten one I would have chose the auto. I never thought I would see the day where I would chose auto over manual but I guess the day has come... if I were looking to get back in a vette I would still take the manual however... some cars just need a manual to be enjoyable I feel that the corvette up to the c7 falls into that category for me. That being said if the c8 offers a good DCT like the one in my current m3 I couldn’t imagine wanting it in a manual. If the new corvette is going to be mentioned in the same breath as let’s say something like the mclaren 570s, which I drive often sticking in a manual transmission just won’t cut it.
I think a lot of it also has to do with age.... the younger guys like me (32) will appreciate the DCT and it’s capabilities while the mid aged/older crowd might miss the old school feel of a manual. At the end of the day a manual transmission is fun and gives you a true connection to the car that nothing can really replace. That being said however manuals are just to old when paired with today’s cars you just can’t shift fast enough on your own to get the most out of today’s high performance vehicles.
so question.... what will you do when the manual is phased out all together? Will the c7 be your last sports car?
09-16-2018, 11:44 AM
#171
And I said, I did try them and bought them, felt they performed great, but got rid of them quickly because I was bored by them. You and I are obviously different, no great shocker there . . . people have diverse tastes. What continually amazes me are folks who think just because they choose something, everyone else will have the same preference.
Obviously, if no manual is available, I'll go with the auto I like best, but I also said I'll probably hold on to my C7 as long as it holds together. If a manual 911 is still available, I'll likely go that direction. If the goal is for the C8 to be McClaren/Ferrari/Lambo clone, I'm not interested.
Obviously, if no manual is available, I'll go with the auto I like best, but I also said I'll probably hold on to my C7 as long as it holds together. If a manual 911 is still available, I'll likely go that direction. If the goal is for the C8 to be McClaren/Ferrari/Lambo clone, I'm not interested.
Last edited by Foosh; 09-16-2018 at 11:49 AM.
09-16-2018, 11:59 AM
#172
Le Mans Master
And I said, I did try them and bought them, felt they performed great, but got rid of them quickly because I was bored by them. You and I are obviously different, no great shocker there . . . people have diverse tastes. What continually amazes me are folks who think just because they choose something, everyone else will have the same preference.
Obviously, if no manual is available, I'll go with the auto I like best, but I also said I'll probably hold on to my C7 as long as it holds together. If a manual 911 is still available, I'll likely go that direction. If the goal is for the C8 to be McClaren/Ferrari/Lambo clone, I'm not interested.
Obviously, if no manual is available, I'll go with the auto I like best, but I also said I'll probably hold on to my C7 as long as it holds together. If a manual 911 is still available, I'll likely go that direction. If the goal is for the C8 to be McClaren/Ferrari/Lambo clone, I'm not interested.
I don't think just because I chose the auto that everyone else should at all. I was just such a die hard manual guy that I found similarity in what you were saying and how I felt before going with the DCT...
I also don’t think the c8 will Be a clone. I think the fact that it’s going to be mid engine shows that GM is looking to compete with some of the super cars you mentioned above however. So many people compare the corvette to these cars anyway when they shouldn’t it’ll be nice to finally have a similar platform... the closer the corvette inches to some of these cars the better IMO. If gm gets the c8 right it’ll be pretty exciting.
09-16-2018, 12:02 PM
#173
I didn't say it would be a clone, I don't know what it will be, and no one else here really does either. Those who do aren't talking. I only mentioned it in response to you making the comparison.
My responses have been to folks who say, if you just tried a DCT, you'd love it and never go back to manual. That's not true, I'm a poster child for that, and I know many folks like me who've had the same experience.
Initially, I loved the DCTs, was impressed by their performance, but in reflecting back, it was because of the novelty. Over time the novelty wore off, and I got bored with them. I realized I that never lost the satisfaction I had with my many manual sports cars. When I came back, I realized how much that was true.
My responses have been to folks who say, if you just tried a DCT, you'd love it and never go back to manual. That's not true, I'm a poster child for that, and I know many folks like me who've had the same experience.
Initially, I loved the DCTs, was impressed by their performance, but in reflecting back, it was because of the novelty. Over time the novelty wore off, and I got bored with them. I realized I that never lost the satisfaction I had with my many manual sports cars. When I came back, I realized how much that was true.
Last edited by Foosh; 09-16-2018 at 12:16 PM.
09-16-2018, 02:24 PM
#174
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Originally Posted by JoesC5
My point was that even with the elimination of the convertible that was 14% of sales, sales did not fall off by 14%, but, in fact, Corvette sales increased for the next 5 years.
Point is that even if the manual transmission is deleted, that does not mean that sales of Corvettes will drop by a corresponding amount.
Point is that even if the manual transmission is deleted, that does not mean that sales of Corvettes will drop by a corresponding amount.
09-16-2018, 03:58 PM
#175
I never said that all of the "20-ish%" of the current manual owners would be lost either. I said, it's hard to imagine GM risking any sizable part of that percentage of owners because it represents 8K car sales annually. If half go elsewhere, that's a sizable loss of market share.
Of course, it's also entirely possible that an affordable ME, high-performance sports car could attract a more diverse demographic and more than make up for that loss. Time will tell, but it makes sense to me to do whatever's possible to hang on to manual die-hards and add to market share by attracting new types of owners..
Of course, it's also entirely possible that an affordable ME, high-performance sports car could attract a more diverse demographic and more than make up for that loss. Time will tell, but it makes sense to me to do whatever's possible to hang on to manual die-hards and add to market share by attracting new types of owners..
Last edited by Foosh; 09-16-2018 at 04:02 PM.
09-16-2018, 04:15 PM
#176
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Initially, I loved the DCTs, was impressed by their performance, but in reflecting back, it was because of the novelty. Over time the novelty wore off, and I got bored with them. I realized I that never lost the satisfaction I had with my many manual sports cars. When I came back, I realized how much that was true.
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Foosh (09-16-2018)
09-16-2018, 08:04 PM
#177
Burning Brakes
One of the reasons I just ordered a Grand Sport vert with an M7 is that I fear the manual transmission will be a thing of the past very soon. In a time where the auto industry is converting to electric and automated driving vehicles I wanted to capture what may be the last of the convertible corvettes with a manual transmission.
I hope I am wrong and the keep building but if not I want to enjoy what is left of them.
I hope I am wrong and the keep building but if not I want to enjoy what is left of them.
09-16-2018, 08:21 PM
#178
Moderator
One of the reasons I just ordered a Grand Sport vert with an M7 is that I fear the manual transmission will be a thing of the past very soon. In a time where the auto industry is converting to electric and automated driving vehicles I wanted to capture what may be the last of the convertible corvettes with a manual transmission.
I hope I am wrong and the keep building but if not I want to enjoy what is left of them.
I hope I am wrong and the keep building but if not I want to enjoy what is left of them.
09-16-2018, 11:32 PM
#179
Safety Car
I think a lot of it also has to do with age.... the younger guys like me (32) will appreciate the DCT and it’s capabilities while the mid aged/older crowd might miss the old school feel of a manual. At the end of the day a manual transmission is fun and gives you a true connection to the car that nothing can really replace. That being said however manuals are just to old when paired with today’s cars you just can’t shift fast enough on your own to get the most out of today’s high performance vehicles.
so question.... what will you do when the manual is phased out all together? Will the c7 be your last sports car?
09-16-2018, 11:42 PM
#180
I second that! Got rid of my 911 a few years ago and just could not wait any loner to get another manual shift and that is with a daily driver that is really fast but auto.....................