Gnarley Z51

First I think I need to share a little about me and some history. I've been in and around cars most of my life when I was 22 I bought a 68 427 4sd convertible and totaled it about 8 months later. I've been involved in vintage and classic car restorations many years ago, and was an ASE Master tech, factory trained by Jaguar and also a line tech for a Chevy/GM dealership. I was involved in NASCAR in the 80's and early 90's before I had an accident that changed my career path. I always thought I'd restore the 68 and decided I wanted to do more than the work putting that car back together would require!

I'm a C7 owner now with a new to me 2016 Z51 I bought in January! I'll sell the C3 or part it out very soon, the numbers don't match. I just wanted a badd *** car I could have fun in that put a smile on my face and it wasn't necessary to buy a new one that I 'd be afraid to drive. This car had about 10 months of warranty remaining. When I test drove it I wasn't able to find any issues and a rack inspection it looked really good and once home I began to learn more about it.

Eventually, I made a few higher speed brake tests and noted a substantial vibration in the steering wheel and I did it a couple more times to be sure. A few weeks later I made it to the dealer and introduced myself to the service manager. I noted several concerns including the brakes and it was suggested I make an appointment soon. Life goes on and I was more interested in trying to have fun and drive the car.

Suddenly it's October and I need to get that warranty work scheduled before it's too late. I got some work done and have been researching all of the possible problems that may be occurring including the brakes and return for my 3rd visit. I'd heard Chevrolet was stingy with brake complaints and wouldn't warranty any past 7,500 miles, mine now has 23,000 miles! Being concerned about warranty rejection I started a case with Customer care. I got a call a day after I brought the car in for work from the customer care manager in Austin, TX stating the brake claim was being denied by the dealer as "normal wear an tear" and on a recorded line noting that brakes are covered under the bumper-to-bumper warranty.

I jacked up the car the day before I brought it in wanting to know if I actually had warped rotors only finding one that was at .001. So I now wondered what could the issue be and didn't take any rotor thickness measurements figuring the warranty should take care of this. Let me say I had a heated exchange with the manager who said I could not escalate the case and there was no one else I could speak to face to face and his was the final decision! I've done a bit more searching and found I have the early 2 piece rotors and there is a TSB regarding replacement with one piece rotors. I've sent this TSB to the customer care and service managers, I don't expect any change in the decision.

The brake pulsation in the steering wheel is real and so is the real warranty that ends November 18th that I've reported. This is not anything that should be experienced ever under "Normal wear and tear". We shouldn't experience these vibrations under braking ever and should never be considered "Normal wear and tear". I shouldn't be required to diagnose and fix a problem that should be covered under warranty.

What can I do, what are my options?

PatternDayTrader

I dont know what you can or cant do but I've never heard of brake pulsation not being covered under warranty.

Bill Dearborn

You can always escalate to the Customer Service organization listed in your OM. When you say you had a heated discussion with the manager do you mean the actual Service Manager who is responsible for the shop and all employees in the shop or the Service Writer/Assistant that makes out Customer's repair orders?

Bill

Gnarley Z51

Bill the heated exchange was with the Chevrolet Regional Customer Care manager in Austin, TX who noted I could not speak to anyone else and that his was the final decision. I noted I wanted to speak to a regional manager face to face and he said that wasn't possible. This is being called "normal wear and tear", Whisky-Tango-Foxtrot.....??? There is always another manager until you get to Mary Barra.

This is not how you treat an owner of a car that's under warranty.

c54u

Your brake rotor problem is now documented before your warranty expires. Even though there is no resolution to your problem other than GM reps state that the problem is normal wear and tear, I see no reason for your claim with the TSB you sent to GM customer care to be denied. I never heard of the 7500 mile brake limit coverage policy you mentioned. You clearly are withing the parameters of the TSB and GM must honor it.

Good luck.



http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...html#d2342e156

Gnarley Z51

c54u, I think pretty much everyone would agree, however, the service manager said Chevy doesn't want to warranty brakes after 7,500 miles and in fact are being very tight and controlled in what they'll accept and would rather the dealership push apparel and parts rather than satisfy a warranty claim. You know I could understand that after all paying the dealer for warranty claims comes from the GM bottom line and profits, the fewer claims they have the better the bottom line and I could imagine this is bottom line driven from corporate HQ.

I'm not satisfied with the statement that this is "normal wear and tear", which does not come close to identifying an actual fault, "wear and tear" does not cause vibrations in the steering wheel and if it did there would be a huge defect in the initial engineering of the braking system.

Bubbletop409

It seems GM warranties are only as good as the service manager at the particular dealership. My 16 Z51 3LT was still under warranty when it was presented to my local dealer with a leather dash delamination issue. I had to wait three weeks for the district manager to show up and look at my vehicle. The repair was approved, but WTF, how could that be anything but a warranty issue. It's not like I was cleaning my dash with acetone. Stay positive and calm but be persistent. Document other owners complaints about the same issue as I did with my dash. It's hard for GM to say your an isolated incident when many have had the same malfunction.

Gnarley Z51

Glad you got the dash warrantied, I had my seatbacks replaced due to fading and shrinkage, no they didn't get cold.... and there was no fight about them. Brakes seem to be in a different category because they are a wear item like tires and I suspect the closer you get to your warranty expiration the harder they push back. A vibration in the steering wheel is a vibration whether it's at 2,300 miles or 23,000 miles and normal wear and tear is not going to produce that else everyone here would have that complaint.

There is a cause but I don't think it should be my responsibility to diagnose it.

JALLEN4

It would really be nonsensical to think GM is paying someone 40-50 thousand a year plus benefits to sit on the phone arguing with customers in an effort to save on warranty expense. The customer care folks work on current policy guidelines that are updated regularly.

GM has stated rotors and brake pads are wear items for more than 20 years and I have the battle scars to attest to that. The 7500 mile basis has long been one discussed. I watched them turn down hundreds of claim requests on Cadillacs in the nineties and early 2000's for serious steering wheel vibrations caused by warped rotors.

TSB's are not warranty statements nor are they a recall. They are diagnostic guidelines that lead to curing mechanical problems. They are issued by engineering on areas where there is a common and consistent problem. Often these are the result of things found in the field by dealership techs or can be from engineering work by either GM staff or supplier staff.

Being the second owner of a vehicle having this type of problem is not going to work in your favor. The original owner and GM's actual customer is dealt with more leniency. If we are simply talking about rotors and pads here, the cost of replacement is minimal especially with your background where you can install them yourself. Your time may be better spent chasing something of more substance.

Gnarley Z51

JALLEN4, from what I've read other places and have experienced I couldn't disagree with you. It sounds like you know Cadillac and GM warranties, my dad was Material Supervisor in Orion when they opened that plant and he retired from there about 7 years later. Others here have a different opinion, but opinions aren't going to get problems resolved. I'm not saying I have a rotor or brake pad problem though that seems to be the primary suspect. What I am saying is I have a vibration upon hard braking at speed and that it should not be experienced ever.

From my position, it should be warrantied and I shouldn't have to fix something during the warranty period, though I could. I believe as others do if a problem exists and it can be identified and it's during the warranty period it should be covered. While I am the second owner that should have no bearing on warranty coverage. The warranty does not state it treats second owners any differently and the only thing that matters is the warranty period and what's covered. They have no legal right to treat a second owner any differently than the original owner, do they?

I don't know how I'll be able to get an actual cause out of them and may, in fact, consider legal action as the warranty is enforceable and the statement "normal wear and tear" does not identify an actual cause.

Thanks for your reply

jversluis

my rotors on my 17 were replaced at 4k for being warped.
z51 no track time. tech said they have done alot of them and could have come from factory or just sitting on dealer lot to long and not seasoned properly.

Maxpowers

This is very true. My dealer approved replacing my dash on site at my first visit. It sounds like I'm more the exception than the norm. It was said in another thread that the dealers that have better track records of approving legitimate warranty claims seems to get more authority to approve on their own.

JALLEN4

You probably need to go back and actually read the warranty as written.You will find there are a number of ways GM can interpret things to be a matter of wear and tear or even abuse. They are well within their rights to make those decisions and actually have hundreds of lawyers on staff to back them up. They are in fact right to take wear and tear into account in many areas and the warranty does not cover any fault found without question... which is what you are wishing for. Contrary to what sometimes seems to be a popular opinion here, GM does not consist of idiots. They know exactly what they are doing and make billions doing it.

Yes, dealers do often make a distinction between the first owner under warranty when compared to subsequent owners. An example might well be warped rotors. I bought a number of them to placate customers who had purchased multiple cars from me when the Cadillac problem was at its peak. If a guy showed up with a car he purchased somewhere else, it did not happen on my money.

JALLEN4

It was me that said that but yet the warranty is the same regardless of what dealer you go to. It is written in detail and given to you at delivery but most of us actually never read it. Dealers that have warranty statistics that are in line with the averages have more latitude, generally, to approve certain items without consultation than those who have warranty problem areas. That in no way means one dealer can legally warranty something another dealer cannot. All warranty operations are subject to the manufacturers review and ultimate approval.

rrsperry

PatternDayTrader

Is that why they bankrupted in 09 ? Cause they are so smart ? So on top of things that they issue a service bulletin admitting their rotors are junk, but then (quietly) direct the dealers not to cover them under warranty ?
Whether you know it or not, or whether you believe it or not, the only reason they get away with this sort of bs is because no one presses the issue. The second someone does, they will fold their argument like the house of cards that it is.

GoatHead

Did you bed your rotors and brake pads per instructions in the manual?

CougVette

I have a 2016 Z51 Stingray that I bought new in Sandy Oregon. I had the same problem with my brakes that you described. The dealer replaced the front rotors at 9,575 miles. Everything was fine for a few months and then the vibration returned. At 12,218 miles the dealer replaced the front rotors again and replaced the rear rotors. All the repairs were covered under the warranty so I paid nothing.
I didn't have any arguments with the dealer. They agreed the warped rotors were not normal wear and tear.

Zaphod B

This.

Zaphod B

I experienced the same issue on another automobile (not my Vette) after doing some sketchy braking maneuvers that were enough to cause brake fade. Research on the forums led me to understand that I likely had uneven brake pad deposits on the rotors. I performed a bed-in procedure and the problem was solved. I recommend the same for you.

Good luck!