VNAMVET

Just a quick question. Pic of my 2017 PDR version.
Does anyone have a newer version or update?

Thanks.

Jeff V.

I've got a PDR module out of a 2018 that has the same software on it. Hopefully someone with a 2019 can chime in with their version.

KenHorse

2019 Grand Sport, born 10/8/19, VIN 111047

Version 84377062AC 0.1
Cal 23119739AA

Jeff V.

This seems like as good a place as any to post the list of PDR software I've been compiling. There may be more than this. These are Corvette specific. I haven't looked into software versions for the Camaro and Cadillac V cars.

rhneff

Does anyone know if the software version can be updated in older vehicles, i.e. can a 2017 model be upgraded to the 2019 software? And if so, how?

Jeff V.

Updates are carried out using the SD card slot in the glovebox. The update files can only be downloaded by GM dealers and 3rd party shops with programming subscriptions. I don't know if they're backward compatible. One of the PDR modules I have was sold to me after it failed a software update and died. I never did ask the person if it was because they were trying to load 'wrong' software on it, or if it was just a fluke.

Until someone says otherwise, I would not load software that's not specifically spelled out in a GM service bulletin.

buckeye4

My 2017 same as yours.

defaria

This is asinine! No other software developer develops software like this! VIN coded? Why? Not having everybody on the latest? Stupid. Not writing code that can handle the various hardware it needs to run on (especially when you're in charge of what hardware gets in) just plain stupid!

This is not rocket science and cars are not special. Literally thousands if not hundreds of thousands of companies and software developers deal with such things much more intelligently each and every day. I see no rational reason why developing software for your own platform isn't done like everybody knows it needs to be done. Hell Android Auto runs on how many different platforms with little issue and is updated just about daily - no SD card, software coded to your specific device, no appointments necessary - it just happens.

Jeff V.

The PDR isn't VIN coded. It's actually one of the few modules in the car that doesn't need to be programmed at all. It's plug and play.

As for the rest of what you said, I agree completely.

Bill Dearborn

Just how many systems that are complex systems of systems have you done software development on? It is a lot more complex than updating smartphone software. When Android updates their software they only have to get the carriers to agree to carry the update. They don't have to get all of the systems the smartphone may interface with through the carrier to agree to the changes they have made. Once you make that smartphone a subsystem then it has to live with all of the other subsystems and that means the system developer has to ensure it doesn't interfere with the other subsystems operation especially if there are safety related items that need to be considered.

I don't know how many times I have heard the claim this change won't make any difference to any of the other subsystems but will make our subsystem work better. Then suddenly when it is incorporated in a test system weird things start happening which take months/years to figure out why.

Bill

Jeff V.

You're not wrong, but I've been working with PCs and network technology all my life. I can buy a bunch of random hardware from hundreds of sources and vendors, assemble it into a working PC, load some software written by a bunch of basement dwelling nerds, using communications protocols developed in the 70s, and retrieve the sum knowledge of humanity from a global network that evolved out of a handful of sites originally linked together as a defense department project.

Right now in my office I've got a pile of equipment from a dozen vendors ranging from brand new to 10 years old. I don't need to contact the vendors for expensive tools and documentation to work on this stuff. I'm not locked into buying only approved parts from approved vendors and connecting them into only their approved configurations. The only thing stopping me from assembling all of it into a fully functional networked office complete with video surveillance and connection to the internet is how much of my time I'd like to sink into the project.

Obviously cars have safety and durability concerns that consumer electronics don't. But the number one reason their software is complex and expensive is their vested interest in not working together. It's even more sad when you consider they buy the majority of their electronics and software from the same dozen suppliers to begin with. The worst part is, they've made it illegal to change any of this stuff after you've bought and paid for it.

Both the PDR and HMI run Linux. They've taken a free, open system developed by a community and locked the community out of it via legislation and encryption. I can't even talk about half the stuff I'm doing with my car because I'm afraid of being financially ruined by a DMCA lawsuit.

I'm not going to pretend what they're doing is easy. But the way they're going about it is blatantly self serving and anti-consumer.

defaria

Lots. A car is not that complicated. Additionally, many of the systems have extremely limited tasks so they don't need to be complex at all.

No it's not. Have you ever built OSes? Compilers? Graphics packages, etc. I think not.

What are you talking about?!? The various systems contain in Android itself is highly complex. And yes they do have to get all the app developers to agree with the changes that are made to the core OS and its facilities. They do this through published APIs and standards. How many people are writing app for Android - literally thousands if not hundreds of thousands of engineers and even neophyte develops all across the globe. How many software engineers work on internal GM code? Far, far less.

No doubt such changes need to be coordinated or, as is the standard in the tech industry, the API must be preserved and/or a new version created and old versions kept and sunsetted. Technology is complex, but many, many car systems are simplistic in their function, a lot more than the software I've been developing, building, version controlling and releasing for the last 40 years...

defaria

And this works because long ago smart software engineers figured out that if you standardize the interfaces through APIs and the like you can have software work on such diverse sets of equipment and software libraries and the like. GM designs and builds cars - not software. And their engineers are not using standard software engineering practices AFAICT. If they were they wouldn't have these problems.

What safety issue is tied to a car radio? Or a turn signal? Or seat position?

Spare me the conspiracy theories! The theory above could as easily apply to every business on the planet!

Yeah, like what is illegal to change?

Linux is under GPL. As per GPL you can get the source that they are using. If you know what you're doing you could probably program it any way you want.

I didn't say what they do is necessarily easy - I said it was not that complex.

Face it, they make their software not easily updatable because they don't see the need the customer's would have for lots of updates. On my Android phone many apps are updated every day. As cars gain more software the manufactures will need to come up with ways to provide updates at the very least for security purposes as currently it's quite easy to hijack a car's internal systems. We just need a Firesheep for cars to bring the problem to light and the manufacturers will be forced to change.

Jeff V.

Someone putting bad data on a bus and screwing up distance sensing cruise control or lane assist would make for a very bad day. But there needs to be some kind of compromise between letting people customize and repair things, and keeping idiots or malicious actors from causing damage and injury.

Bypassing the security is illegal under the DMCA. Some of the right-to-repair stuff was supposed to take care of that, but I can't afford a lawyer to make sure I'm on solid legal ground. I can work on it for my own car. I just can't tell anyone else how I did it.

Only the parts they used and/or changed. Like I can't get the source code for the image decompressor they use on the HMI 2.5 module, because as best I can tell, it was written in house by Bosch. No image decompressor, no custom themes. Same thing with the V850 chip that manages all the CAN communication. Everything in that chip is proprietary. Even if I had all the original source code and documentation handed to me, it doesn't matter. The software updates are digitally signed so you can't write changes to the module, and bypassing that security is illegal.

This is the same reason there are almost 2000 ZR1 owners who can't tune their cars. I'm sure there's plenty of people who have the calibration files ready to go. They just can't write those changes to the PCM because of the code signing requirements.

It's not a conspiracy theory. They do it because their franchise agreements with their dealers block them from offering "repair services" directly to their customers. I think the only way they're getting away with limited OTA updates for some of the newest stuff is because they're classifying it as a subscription based value-added service rather than remote repair work. When they start offering OTA updates for things like PCMs, that'll be an interesting day.

VH Vette

On my 2016 Harley, HD makes available updates to the Boom system . This can effect most all functions on the bike to bring them up to date with the latest software version. Simple download from HD website onto thumb drive and then Thumb drive plugs into bike and updates. All done by owner.
Updates are system level not VIN specific. No charge for the update. Update "change notes" can also be downloaded giving information on what changes are included.
Most changes are done to satisfy owner input which is really good. If you do not want the changes then just do not do the update.
Also, Harley sold over 260K bikes in 2016 versus 40K something Vettes.
There are some software changes that only HD dealers will do that are typically tied to some sort of modification (new stuff added to bike).
I know this is not an apples to apples thing, but I am sure that Chevy could do the same thing for the Vette if they were so inclined. Year over year changes/improvements to the software is being done already, so all they would have to do is make this available to us the end user.
VH

Maxpowers

Yes GM is very outdated in how they handle software.

VW has a device called a VAGCOM. It allows anyone that purchases it (for $300) to go in through the OBDII and update all sorts of things. I did this on my Audi S5. You could activate features, update software etc. VW has it figured out.

Jeff V.

That's how it should be. I've got a lot of criticism for Tesla, but two things I really like about them is how they handle software updates, and how they're trying to get rid of the outdated franchise dealer model.

To be fair, that's an aftermarket device made by Ross Tech. They dropped the VagCom name and changed it to VCDS. I bought one for my S5 too. It only lets you run diagnostics and change customization settings that VW put in the module to begin with. It doesn't let you do things like engine tunes. VW is doing the same thing GM is. They're signing all their code so you can't write changes to to the engines or infotainment systems. If VW didn't expose a customization toggle in their code to begin with, then VCDS won't be any help if you want to change something.