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Bent/Cracked Wheels – Reporting to NHTSA (National Highway Transportation Safety Adm

 
Old 12-24-2018, 07:49 PM
  #41  
Skid Row Joe
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Start Lemon Law proceedings in your individual States. File a complaint with your State's Attorney General as well. You're going to have to do what you can legally on an individual basis for now. File a claim in your small claims court jurisdictions. Name every person who you have talked to at your Chev. Dealerships', as defendants in your court case to recoup damages. Including the regional Chev. Dealer representative(s). They'll all be served papers to appear in court by your County Sheriffs' office. If they're no shows, you're going to be awarded a win by the judge and can then exercise collection of monetary damages with a Deputy Sheriff at the Chev. Dealership.




​​​​​​​.




.
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Old 12-24-2018, 08:03 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
Start Lemon Law proceedings in your individual States. File a complaint with your State's Attorney General as well. You're going to have to do what you can legally on an individual basis for now. File a claim in your small claims court jurisdictions. Name every person who you have talked to at your Chev. Dealerships', as defendants in your court case to recoup damages. Including the regional Chev. Dealer representative(s). They'll all be served papers to appear in court by your County Sheriffs' office. If they're no shows, you're going to be awarded a win by the judge and can then exercise collection of monetary damages with a Deputy Sheriff at the Chev. Dealership.

.
Have you done this and, if so, have you been successfully awarded judgements to cover all costs? Do you know of anyone who has pursued this?
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Old 12-24-2018, 08:19 PM
  #43  
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I don't own a GS/ZO6. Do you own a bought new GS/ZO6? If I did, I wouldn't be contacting NHTSA. That's a waste of time. I'd do exactly as I outlined above, we're I damaged monetarily by their defective wheels. I'd also picket the Chev. Dealership I bought it from on Saturdays, were I the victim as that is extremely effective. Mobilize!
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Old 12-24-2018, 08:46 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
I don't own a GS/ZO6. Do you own a bought new GS/ZO6? If I did, I wouldn't be contacting NHTSA. That's a waste of time. I'd do exactly as I outlined above, we're I damaged monetarily by their defective wheels. I'd also picket the Chev. Dealership I bought it from on Saturdays, were I the victim as that is extremely effective. Mobilize!
Doesn't sound practical. Some people have bought their cars across state lines as I and other Corvette owners have. Have you had any interaction with the NHTSA?...why are you negative with them? Do you actually think your local small claims court will actually serve papers to anyone you decide to list as a defendant? Think just maybe you need to rethink this?
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Old 12-24-2018, 08:54 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by VETTE-NV View Post
I think a lot of it has to do with the combination of the rockhard run flats, stiff suspension, and poor quality OEM wheels. That’s why I dumped the tires and got some custom forged wheels. No issues.


Are these BC Forged? They look great. Two piece?
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Old 12-24-2018, 10:52 PM
  #46  
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Yes.....two-piece BC Forged/w Conti's. Completely transformed the car. DSC controller on the way.
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Old 12-24-2018, 11:08 PM
  #47  
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MMD:
You didn't answer the question. Do you own a new GS/ZO6? Probably not.

.You obviously haven't thought this though. Or, you're not adept at solving your own car problems? Or, you've never had car problems that needed thinking outside your box. Regardless, NHTSA, isn't going to help you when you're out a couple thousand bucks for wheels, and, since you've contacted your insurance agent for your car damage, Carfax will now kick in as a damaged auto. Perfect storm.

​​​​​​​. You should rethink your strategy, or, take some practical advice that has been proven to work. As I've outlined above for you in depth.

Last edited by Skid Row Joe; 12-24-2018 at 11:11 PM.
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Old 12-25-2018, 08:50 AM
  #48  
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Hello, I am from the Gooberment, and I am here to help you!

Certainly report it to the NTSB. Good luck with that. They are not really interested until it hits the news and enough people have died to make it interesting to them. Then they build a case with the goal to have the manufacturer pay a HUGE fine. Then they are super interested as they have more $ to increase their bureaucracy! Secondary is a recall to actually help you get new wheels. Probably the recall will be to require a safety sticker that the wheels are subject to cracking.

But parts of the gooberment are shutdown, including the Transportation Department. Do you miss it? Only if you are on the Goobment teat and are not being paid. Or maybe some federal retires that might have their 80% pensions delayed while the rest of us get no pensions. Funny, my paycheck still has all the federal taxes extorted from it.

Last edited by Flame Red; 12-25-2018 at 08:53 AM.
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Old 12-25-2018, 11:19 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
MMD:
You didn't answer the question. Do you own a new GS/ZO6? Probably not.

Like many others here, we hang out here on CF hoping someday we can eventually own a vehicle with the hope that it will someday have safety issues so we can spend thousands of additional dollars out of our pockets to repair.

.You obviously haven't thought this though. Or, you're not adept at solving your own car problems? Or, you've never had car problems that needed thinking outside your box. Regardless, NHTSA, isn't going to help you when you're out a couple thousand bucks for wheels, and, since you've contacted your insurance agent for your car damage, Carfax will now kick in as a damaged auto. Perfect storm.

I prefer to do my thinking inside a box. It's usually warmer inside. I did once try putting some bubble gum over a nail hole in my tire that was going flat but that for some reason did not work. If you don't think the NHTSA cares about vehicle safety until someone is killed then go to their website. Take a look at either the "Recall reports" or the "Investigations Monthly Reports" by clicking on the monthly links. There are numerous safety related recalls and investigations that are currently in the works. You can find this info at their website:

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recall...hlyreports.cfm

CarFax..what's that???

. You should rethink your strategy, or, take some practical advice that has been proven to work. As I've outlined above for you in depth.

I am still waiting for your response back to my earlier questions. When the car dealer is across the country how can you get your local jurisdiction to subpoena the dealership, his dog and wife, etc... to fly back across the country for a small claims court hearing? Will the local juridiction pay for their travel expenses? Had you done this? Sounds practical though.
...
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Old 12-27-2018, 12:42 PM
  #50  
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Bump for safety.
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Old 12-27-2018, 01:43 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by MMD View Post
If you are looking for actual data (whatever form that may be in) you will never find it.

Bullshit.

GM will never tell you. You will never get it from accident reports.
If you apply this logic to other problems and businesses you will never find anything from anywhere. Surely this has been shown to be a false statement in all other cases. Why would GM be different? You don't ask GM, or at least you would not rely solely on such info. You do other real life measurements like they do for all other situations.

Forum members relating their personal experiences is about as good as you may get.
Again, bullshit.

Had you gone to the NHTSA website and culled their database?
Why would I do that? I'm asking for evidence - not offering it. Look all I'm saying is anecdotal evidence is not convincing.

What exactly do you expect to obtain before you are convinced there is a very real problem with the C7 wide-body OEM wheels?
Not my job to define that however I would think that 1) it would not be self reported, 2) it will have a large sample size, 3) it will compare such problems with other cars/manufactures of similar cars clearly showing that it is happening at a rate way above chance. So maybe not go to GM or NHTSA (or go to both) but perhaps survey dealerships and other mechanics for their data as well as the anecdotal reports of owners.

Be a little bit inventive here. There are ways to properly measure such things. What I'm asking is aside from anecdotal, self reported data, what other not biased evidence exists. I know I'm such a terrible/demanding person to ask for real evidence...
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Old 12-27-2018, 01:55 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by defaria View Post

Bullshit.



If you apply this logic to other problems and businesses you will never find anything from anywhere. Surely this has been shown to be a false statement in all other cases. Why would GM be different? You don't ask GM, or at least you would not rely solely on such info. You do other real life measurements like they do for all other situations.



Again, bullshit.



Why would I do that? I'm asking for evidence - not offering it. Look all I'm saying is anecdotal evidence is not convincing.



Not my job to define that however I would think that 1) it would not be self reported, 2) it will have a large sample size, 3) it will compare such problems with other cars/manufactures of similar cars clearly showing that it is happening at a rate way above chance. So maybe not go to GM or NHTSA (or go to both) but perhaps survey dealerships and other mechanics for their data as well as the anecdotal reports of owners.

Be a little bit inventive here. There are ways to properly measure such things. What I'm asking is aside from anecdotal, self reported data, what other not biased evidence exists. I know I'm such a terrible/demanding person to ask for real evidence...

You're living in a fairy tale world bud. Pixie dust will not get you the data you ask for. Nowhere do you state where this information lies. You never really addressed any of my counter points. Wishful thinking is irrelevant. Dealers and mechanics will never provide it as they are on the clock. The only data that will ever be available is that coming from owners. That is why NHTSA and the process they have in place to collect it is the only and best way to address this problem.



Last edited by MMD; 12-27-2018 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 12-27-2018, 03:24 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by MMD View Post
You're living in a fairy tale world bud. Pixie dust will not get you the data you ask for. Nowhere do you state where this information lies. You never really addressed any of my counter points. Wishful thinking is irrelevant. Dealers and mechanics will never provide it as they are on the clock. The only data that will ever be available is that coming from owners. That is why NHTSA and the process they have in place to collect it is the only and best way to address this problem.
I see, so when you can't address any of my points you simply declare I live in a fairy tale world. Interesting tactic but fallacious anyway.

I haven't addressed any of your counter points? Really? Let's review shall we? You said:

If you are looking for actual data (whatever form that may be in) you will never find it. GM will never tell you. You will never get it from accident reports. Forum members relating their personal experiences is about as good as you may get. Had you gone to the NHTSA website and culled their database? What exactly do you expect to obtain before you are convinced there is a very real problem with the C7 wide-body OEM wheels?
Where exactly are your counter arguments? You state I will not find actual data. You state that GM won't tell me. You state I will never get it from accident reports and that forum members personal experience is pretty much the only data source (never mind the fact that forum members represent only a fraction of vette owners). Each one of those so called "points" are merely claims, statements that you have made about your opinion with exactly zero data to back it up. What's to refute? Nothing, so no I have not addressed your "points" because there was nothing to address.

But I must ask, how did they discover that Volkswagen emissions scandal? Or those blowing up Pintos that Ford was selling back in the day? Surely Volkswagen and Ford did not offer up that information. Do you think it might have been possible for independent researchers and scientists to conduct real research, do tests and get real bona fide evidence? How was the Enron scandal uncovered or any of a host of thousands of defects in products detected since as you say clearly the manufacture's not gonna give you that data? Do you believe that they all are a result of anecdotal, self reported claims by the customers alone? I for one, will always insist on real evidence before government and regulators start forcing people instead of relying solely on anecdotal reports. Sure if a lot of people are complaining then that's a good reason to really look into things but it is a crappy reason to start curtailing people's freedoms on mere claims. To do so employs the Appeal to Popularity and that's also a fallacy. If people are complaining about such things then surely a little research can verify if it is indeed a problem or not.

The answer is (and you know it but probably won't admit it) that independent verification of such defects can be and is done with regularity. It's not impossible as you state (again with no evidence). Clearly evidence of such research is all over the place or do you still deny that it's at all possible for all products and all manufacturers?

Finally, how and why would this bent rim thing for GM's C7's be such that there's no possible way to verify if there is indeed a problem or not? Go ahead, tell us why this particular thing is impossible to research and get real evidence on when we've done this already countless times with thousands if not millions of products and manufactures. What stops a researcher from buying a couple of rims and testing things? IOW don't just state emphatically and with out evidence that it's impossible. If you believe it to be impossible then tell us *WHY* you think it's impossible and include a statement about how, given that it's been possible in countless other similar cases, it's impossible in this case.

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Old 12-27-2018, 06:11 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by defaria View Post
I see, so when you can't address any of my points you simply declare I live in a fairy tale world. Interesting tactic but fallacious anyway.

I haven't addressed any of your counter points? Really? Let's review shall we? You said:
Well...I didn't address you're so-called counter points because you didn't have any. A response of "Bullshit" does not constitute a counter argument.

Originally Posted by defaria View Post
Where exactly are your counter arguments? You state I will not find actual data. You state that GM won't tell me. You state I will never get it from accident reports and that forum members personal experience is pretty much the only data source (never mind the fact that forum members represent only a fraction of vette owners). Each one of those so called "points" are merely claims, statements that you have made about your opinion with exactly zero data to back it up. What's to refute? Nothing, so no I have not addressed your "points" because there was nothing to address.
No, there is plenty to address. You just don't have any answers you can offer up. There is a difference. Answers do exist. My "points" are not my opinions. I have cited numerous case reports of bent and cracked wheels earlier in this thread. Check them all out - they represent just a small representation of instances of wheel issues here. You have offered up nothing to show this problem does not exist.

Originally Posted by defaria View Post
But I must ask, how did they discover that Volkswagen emissions scandal? Or those blowing up Pintos that Ford was selling back in the day? Surely Volkswagen and Ford did not offer up that information. Do you think it might have been possible for independent researchers and scientists to conduct real research, do tests and get real bona fide evidence? How was the Enron scandal uncovered or any of a host of thousands of defects in products detected since as you say clearly the manufacture's not gonna give you that data? Do you believe that they all are a result of anecdotal, self reported claims by the customers alone? I for one, will always insist on real evidence before government and regulators start forcing people instead of relying solely on anecdotal reports. Sure if a lot of people are complaining then that's a good reason to really look into things but it is a crappy reason to start curtailing people's freedoms on mere claims. To do so employs the Appeal to Popularity and that's also a fallacy. If people are complaining about such things then surely a little research can verify if it is indeed a problem or not.
According to published reports, scientific date was obtained from both the California Air Resources Board (CARB) and Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and they conducted the investigations that eventually led to the charges you referred to. These 2 agencies are government agencies (state & local). It was the hard work of people within these agencies that led to the charges and subsequent discovery of a software cheat device that Volkswagen employed to defeat emission testing. The upshot of that scandal was a federal district court appointed former FBI Director Robert Mueller as a mediator to oversee the negotiations between claimants, regulators, and Volkswagen, to produce a final "consent decree" by late June 2016 which results in stiff penalties and substantial compensation for affected owners against VW.

The Ford Pinto case you mention was a lengthy investigation that was precipitated by various accidents and deaths. The NHTSA conducted this long investigation this investigation found that 27 deaths were found to have occurred between 1970 and mid-1977 in rear-impact crashes that resulted in fire. This led to 117 lawsuits brought against Ford in connection with rear-end accidents in the Pinto that resulted in the largest judgement against a US automaker at the time. The rest is history.

What is important to know in both these cases you cited were that it took very large government agencies to conduct exhaustive investigations that led to substantial judgements and penalties to these 2 cars companies. Both companies initially denied the claims against them but much later in the investigation admitted culpability. Does that surprise you? You think they would have voluntarily offered up any evidence showing any engineering safety defects if you just had asked them?

Originally Posted by defaria View Post
The answer is (and you know it but probably won't admit it) that independent verification of such defects can be and is done with regularity. It's not impossible as you state (again with no evidence). Clearly evidence of such research is all over the place or do you still deny that it's at all possible for all products and all manufacturers?
Read through the case histories of both the Ford and VW cases you cite. I am not sure who you would suggest would qualify as being worthy of conducting an independent investigation in these cases but you will see it took the government to intercede on behalf of the public otherwise nothing would have happened in these cases. Sure, every now and then you will read on this forum about GM management/dealers throwing someone a bone and picking up an expensive non-warranty repair for a select few. Generally speaking, large corporations do not like getting their hands being caught in the cookie jar by us little people. Large corporations can and do sometimes do bad things. Can you say Erin Brockovich? It is the role of government, to protect it's citizens from the abuses of the powerful.

Originally Posted by defaria View Post
Finally, how and why would this bent rim thing for GM's C7's be such that there's no possible way to verify if there is indeed a problem or not? Go ahead, tell us why this particular thing is impossible to research and get real evidence on when we've done this already countless times with thousands if not millions of products and manufactures. What stops a researcher from buying a couple of rims and testing things? IOW don't just state emphatically and with out evidence that it's impossible. If you believe it to be impossible then tell us *WHY* you think it's impossible and include a statement about how, given that it's been possible in countless other similar cases, it's impossible in this case.
The problem can be verified. That is why people here are requesting the National Highway Transportation and Safety Administration get involved. This can only be done by owners affected go to their website and file a formal complaint. They have the resources and the authority to conduct an investigation of this scope and magnitude and get these answers. While the issue with OEM Corvette wheels and other issues on this forum such as the A8 Shudder and differential Warble problems are nowhere as large in scope as the Ford and VW issue above, there are literally hundreds of smaller issues like these that can be found on the NHTSA's website if you go and read their monthly reports. How do you think vehicle recalls ever get started? No single entity on this forum has the authority or financially wherewithal to conduct an independent investigation to obtain real answers many forum members here demand. It is the NHTSA's role to conduct these investigations to see if these cases merit further study - not you or me. This process can only begin if we get involved. Naysaying will never get this request off the ground. These cases can last for years and only steadfast determination and hard work will ever see them through to the end.

Last edited by MMD; 12-27-2018 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 12-27-2018, 07:13 PM
  #55  
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It's all about stats...

Enough people have the problem, NHTSA will act.

Period
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Old 12-27-2018, 07:19 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by KenHorse View Post
It's all about stats...

Enough people have the problem, NHTSA will act.

Period
Not always the case.

Period
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Old 12-27-2018, 07:25 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by MMD View Post

Not always the case.

Period
Guess we will see

Period
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Old 12-27-2018, 07:26 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by KenHorse View Post
Guess we will see

Period
Only if eyes open

Period
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Old 12-27-2018, 07:37 PM
  #59  
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Guys

The purpose of the thread is to alert NHTSA to the issue.

The more members that escalate the issue might create a sense of urgency for NHTSA to act in one form or the other.

Since GM is denying warranty claims they are turning a blind eye to the issue. If you don’t look you don’t see.

Let’s encourage and support those owners who have had or will have the issue to lodge the complaint.

Thanks
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Old 12-27-2018, 07:42 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by MMD View Post

Only if eyes open

Period
More than you know

Period
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