What if you have a dash cam and are at fault?
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
What if you have a dash cam and are at fault?
If you are in an accident, are at fault, and happen to have recorded it with your dash cam, I imagine it's a crime to then destroy that evidence. Is it discoverable and admissiable in court?
ie: can the court require that you incriminate yourself by turning over relevant evidence against yourself like that? Asking genuinely, never had an accident and am not an attorney, but I have a dash cam!
ie: can the court require that you incriminate yourself by turning over relevant evidence against yourself like that? Asking genuinely, never had an accident and am not an attorney, but I have a dash cam!
#2
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ttt
Your ins agent will tell you not to admit to nothing to a police office are anyone. If it goes to court let them say to whom is to blame for it.. Robert
#3
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You can do as you please with your recording. Throw it out, delete it, keep it to yourself. That’s your business. If it’s your fault as you say that’s apparently already determined so who cares about video.
#4
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"In honor of jpee"
Not asked, not telling....
#5
If you are in an accident, are at fault, and happen to have recorded it with your dash cam, I imagine it's a crime to then destroy that evidence. Is it discoverable and admissiable in court?
ie: can the court require that you incriminate yourself by turning over relevant evidence against yourself like that? Asking genuinely, never had an accident and am not an attorney, but I have a dash cam!
ie: can the court require that you incriminate yourself by turning over relevant evidence against yourself like that? Asking genuinely, never had an accident and am not an attorney, but I have a dash cam!
#6
Melting Slicks
Here in NC, I know of folks who have gotten ticketed for infractions viewed by the trooper from the riders GoPro.
The trooper pull the biker over for doing something stupid, then had an entire days worth of stupidity.
The guy I ride with, knowing this info, we hide our cameras. This would be the same in a car.
Accelerate from a red light = Exhibition of Speed or Careless or Reckless Driving. You decide.
I would not mention it to the law enforcement agency doing the crash report/investigation.
The trooper pull the biker over for doing something stupid, then had an entire days worth of stupidity.
The guy I ride with, knowing this info, we hide our cameras. This would be the same in a car.
Accelerate from a red light = Exhibition of Speed or Careless or Reckless Driving. You decide.
I would not mention it to the law enforcement agency doing the crash report/investigation.
#7
Take your responsibility as a human being. Yes the video is evidence and destroying it breaks the law. Lying to the insurance is fraud. I love dash cam. I think everyone should have one. It does make you a better drive because you know you are being recorded but it also capture other's craziness on the road. You camera can be an important witness to a serious accident or crime. You never know what you will get on camera.
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BigTree (12-29-2018)
#8
Here in NC, I know of folks who have gotten ticketed for infractions viewed by the trooper from the riders GoPro.
The trooper pull the biker over for doing something stupid, then had an entire days worth of stupidity.
The guy I ride with, knowing this info, we hide our cameras. This would be the same in a car.
Accelerate from a red light = Exhibition of Speed or Careless or Reckless Driving. You decide.
I would not mention it to the law enforcement agency doing the crash report/investigation.
The trooper pull the biker over for doing something stupid, then had an entire days worth of stupidity.
The guy I ride with, knowing this info, we hide our cameras. This would be the same in a car.
Accelerate from a red light = Exhibition of Speed or Careless or Reckless Driving. You decide.
I would not mention it to the law enforcement agency doing the crash report/investigation.
#9
#10
Pro
who owns it?
I would like to ask the same question, except about the info stored on the cars various computers. Can the police sieze that info and use it? Do they need any kind of warrent? Would the computers be subject to a car search like the rest of the car? Lots of interesting questions on this thread. Thanks!
#11
I would like to ask the same question, except about the info stored on the cars various computers. Can the police sieze that info and use it? Do they need any kind of warrent? Would the computers be subject to a car search like the rest of the car? Lots of interesting questions on this thread. Thanks!
Last edited by MMD; 12-28-2018 at 01:28 PM.
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383vett (12-29-2018)
#12
Safety Car
I don't understand why nobody seems to make a dash cam that is secured via a password. IOW the only way to play or remove videos from the device would be to require a password to unlock the device (think encrypted file system). If that was done then the police/court could not access those files without knowing your password and they should not be able compel you to reveal your password then that's a violation of your 5th amendment rights to be free from self incrimination. Or at least some courts view it as a violation while others try to say it isn't. SCOTUS definitely needs to weigh in but hasn't yet.
From a security podcast I listen to:
Also, from https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...l-court-says/:
From a security podcast I listen to:
STEVE: Also in good news, we have one more judge. We're still sort of feeling our way through this question of fingerprint versus password. And a Virginia Circuit Court judge ruled last Thursday the way we wanted them to, which is that a person does not need to provide a passcode to unlock their phone for the police. We've pretty much already lost the battle of the fingerprint. That seems to be pretty much gone. But at least the issue of what you know cannot be extracted. That's still considered testimony, which is protected under the Fifth Amendment to the - in the U.S., I should say, to the U.S. Constitution.
So a couple quote snippets here: "Giving police a fingerprint" - and this is from the judge's comments. "Giving police a fingerprint is akin to providing a DNA or handwriting sample or an actual key, all which the law permits. A passcode, though, requires the defendant to divulge knowledge, which the law protects." And then, lastly: "A communication is testimonial only when it reveals the contents of your mind. We cannot invoke the privilege against self-incrimination to prevent the government from collecting biometrics like fingerprints, DNA samples, or voice exemplars because the courts have decided that this evidence doesn't reveal anything you know. It's not therefore testimonial."
So a couple quote snippets here: "Giving police a fingerprint" - and this is from the judge's comments. "Giving police a fingerprint is akin to providing a DNA or handwriting sample or an actual key, all which the law permits. A passcode, though, requires the defendant to divulge knowledge, which the law protects." And then, lastly: "A communication is testimonial only when it reveals the contents of your mind. We cannot invoke the privilege against self-incrimination to prevent the government from collecting biometrics like fingerprints, DNA samples, or voice exemplars because the courts have decided that this evidence doesn't reveal anything you know. It's not therefore testimonial."
Without this capability, the authorities are trying to get suspects to cough up their passwords instead. The Supreme Court has never ruled on the constitutionality of the issue. There's been a smattering of varying court rulings nationwide on the topic. In 2012, a federal appeals court said that forcing a child-**** suspect to decrypt password-protected hard drives would amount to a Fifth Amendment violation.
In the latest case, the SEC is investigating two former Capital One data analysts who allegedly used insider information associated with their jobs to trade stocks—in this case, a $150,000 investment allegedly turned into $2.8 million. Regulators suspect the mobile devices are holding evidence of insider trading and demanded that the two turn over their passcodes.
The defendants balked at supplying their passcodes, saying the Fifth Amendment protected them. The judge agreed and said that the government was going on a fishing expedition
In the latest case, the SEC is investigating two former Capital One data analysts who allegedly used insider information associated with their jobs to trade stocks—in this case, a $150,000 investment allegedly turned into $2.8 million. Regulators suspect the mobile devices are holding evidence of insider trading and demanded that the two turn over their passcodes.
The defendants balked at supplying their passcodes, saying the Fifth Amendment protected them. The judge agreed and said that the government was going on a fishing expedition
#13
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That's what makes the PDR nice. Most people don't even know it's there and the SD cards are so small you could dispose of them easily should you be so inclined.
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speed4tu (12-28-2018)
#14
Burning Brakes
Thanks MMD for that video. Very interesting. Wondering what if... you had the dash cam on your dashboard, facing forward, very visible, red light blinking showing it is on. But you either do not have a sound record feature, or you do but turn it off. The car techs abuse your car. Since it is not recording the people, nor their voices, but only recording the road ahead showing driving abuse, would this be allowed? No eavesdropping. Much like the lawyer speaking of a Go-Pro attached to the under carriage, only that it is inside, not outside.
Hummmmmmm.
Hummmmmmm.
#15
Instructor
It is a felony to tamper with evidence. Even from a traffic ticket. If your wrong your wrong. Whats the issue?
#17
Thanks MMD for that video. Very interesting. Wondering what if... you had the dash cam on your dashboard, facing forward, very visible, red light blinking showing it is on. But you either do not have a sound record feature, or you do but turn it off. The car techs abuse your car. Since it is not recording the people, nor their voices, but only recording the road ahead showing driving abuse, would this be allowed? No eavesdropping. Much like the lawyer speaking of a Go-Pro attached to the under carriage, only that it is inside, not outside.
Hummmmmmm.
Hummmmmmm.
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trumanjd1 (12-28-2018)
#19
You can use your PDR or dash cam to record as long as it does not record audio. You would be breaking the law if you record anyone's audio without their permission. The last few years Corvette took out the audio record capability. The early years of the C7 had audio record capability but GM had a firmware update that removed that capability at the behest of their lawyers.
#20
You can use your PDR or dash cam to record as long as it does not record audio. You would be breaking the law if you record anyone's audio without their permission. The last few years Corvette took out the audio record capability. The early years of the C7 had audio record capability but GM had a firmware update that removed that capability at the behest of their lawyers.