jamiejam1

Well the Games Begin!! we stripped out the entire Passenger side today, popped in the gm 650 (NAV TV UNIT), so what we have decided to do was go with a proper mid bass speaker and place the ARC Audio RS 6 6.5" midbass on a dampened plate in the door the RS3 3" Midrange in the door and the RS1 tweeter in the dash. for the amp We decided to go with the new ARC Audio PS800 which is an 8 channel amp with the PS8 DSP built in. The key win on this amp is its Fiber Optic/SPIDIF input directly from the Nav TV Unit.. so No clunky RCA's just 1 cable one remote line and speaker leads going back up This should make things 100 X easier without all of the extra cable running through the car and less signal noise!!! a few shots of the debauchery to follow!

jamiejam1

Jaykoh-Z51

whatchu guys think about if I were to just swap the sub for the pioneer and run a separate amp + volume **** for it.

Will I run into any issues there?

2016C7.paul

Is the gm 650 visible in that image?

JMII

Picts of the speaker openings and newly installed speakers would be great. I am trying to get a feel for what is hidden behind the factory grilles. Also the dimensions of the factory amp if possible. Thanks.

Well you'll still be stuck with the crappy Bose processing. Others have just swapped the sub and been very happy. Using the signal from the front passenger woofer is advisable as it has the least processing applied to it. I have not confirmed that, just repeating what someone else found while testing the system.

To me the processing is more important then the speakers. I know this seems crazy but here is the logic...
You don't hear the speakers directly, instead you hear the results of the sound waves being reflected all over the various surfaces in the car (glass, carpet, leather, plastic, etc). For example if you had the greatest tweeter in the world how would you know? That speaker in the C7 is placed in such a way that its output is being bounced off the windshield. What are the results of that reflection? The only way to control the speakers output in this situation is with an aftermarket DSP processor (and tuning).

I learned this with the audio system in my truck - I can turn my DSP (advanced equalizer and time alignment) on or off. With it off the system sounds decent... but with it on WOW it is downright amazing. In a home theater environment where the speakers are placed directly in front of you (like during a live music performance) the processing is less important. But in a car? None of the speakers are actually aimed at you, they are terribly off-axis, at all different angles and distances. Granted this is less important with bass, since low frequencies are omni-directional, but based on my simplified testing the Bose amp seems to do most of its processing on these lower frequencies.

TL;DR - Will just replacing speakers work? Yes. Will it sound better? Sure. You just have to understand that you will not get the maximum potential or performance out of your system until you eliminate the Bose processing. As the saying goes the whole is more then just the sum of its parts.

jamiejam1

Let me know what you need for rims and tires.. I have several tire distributors and direct with TSW and Ruff as well as MHT so options are linitless

jamiejam1

Insanity continues... So today we ran the 2 lengths of 9 wire speaker lines from rear to front, drilled out 4 pins on the factory molex plug to the doors and brought in the 2 lengths of speaker line for the mids and midbass.. we put the speaker line in the factory harness capsule so that it minimizes the foot print... I cut the rings for the mid ranges in the door so that the new mids which jhave a sightly smaller footprint had a near OEM mount style using the factory mount points ( I used 1/4" mdf for the rings... More to come!

ZO6 cracker

JMII

Thanks for the pics... especially the mids

But aren't the mids are already wired from the factory separately from the mid-basses? I know your likely running all new speaker wires but on a low powered system I normally reuse the factory stuff. Nothing to cut, easier to undo, less work, lower cost, etc. I too am going active 3-way but based on the Bose amp wiring schematic you should only need to run new wires to the dash tweeters.

For those wondering why you need to eliminate the Bose amp (and processing) this YouTube video examples it very well. They cover a low-level factory interface (PAC Amp Pro 4 GM61 shown) versus a level converter (AudioControl LOC shown). Plus they talk about factory EQ and bass reduction "feature" that I have documented:

Matthewstorm

This video was very helpful and explained a lot. Thanks a lot for posting.

jamiejam1

Semi Off Topic, Took a couple days off from the install while we waited on the equipment to show up to tie it all up so I decided to change shoes.. Im gonna drop her tomm, then back to the audio

Jshadow

First off this thread is awesome Kudos for everyone chiming in. Second I'm a complete noob when it comes to anything audio related in vehicles. I only have a 1LT vette without the upgraded speakers and been looking to just get some more bass out of the current system. If i got an AMP Pro or Nav device along with a new sub and amp will this work with my existing system?

jamiejam1

you can simply add a different amp and sub, but theres just a little more to it than that. youd need to grab the sub out wires at the amp or at the OEM Sub and run a hi lo/converter to the new amp then to the sub

JMII

Since he doesn't have the factory sub the front passenger door woofer is the best signal, it has the least processing applied to it.

Sadly the Bose is a "system" - you can't replace or add parts without basically starting over. Technically you can do anything... but the results will always be compromised by whatever Bose stuff remains.

Personally I would replace the Bose amp as step #1. You can then use an aftermarket amp to drive the remaining Bose speakers along with your new subwoofer.

jamiejam1

There actually is something that can be done the midbass is a 1ohm driver by adding a 15 watt 3 ohm resistor in series, you can bring the midbass driver up to a 4 ohm load then seperate the tweeter, from there you can have a near 4 ohm setup on each speaker add the dsp and amp... Problem solved on a simple scale but you definitely want to find a qualified installer to make it happen...

Texas1

2016C7.paul

**************************************** **************************************** *********
This kick-*** thread has lost momentum and deserves a detailed bump.

Shout out to snampro (thread starter) for the Option 1 (detailed below) upgrade.
Shouts out to jamiejam1 and JMII for the Option 2 (detailed below) upgrade.
**************************************** **************************************** **********

I do not have the expertise of the guys above, but I am excellent at research and have been through 4 previous professional audio upgrades nearing $20k total in expenditures (and I am tired of shelling out so much dough). So, for those of you just joining this thread, the summary that follows will get you up to speed on how you can upgrade your audio system and save some money doing it. A detailed discussion on each option, including the Pros, the Cons, and a cost-benefit analysis for each, appears below.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
SNAMPRO's Option 1 (Noise reduction/stereo upgrade project) :

Requires removal of interior panels in trunk, and panels in doors. You will only be replacing speakers and adding Kilmat (or Dynamat equivalent). No new wiring, amps, or DSPs are required.

Acquire:

Loctite
Kilmat (or equiv)
Ogrmar Car Sound Deadener Noise Filter Application Wheel Roller (Black)
MATCC Car Panel Removal Tools Kit 18pcs Trim Removal Tool Set Nylon for Car Panel Dash Audio Radio Removal Installer and Repair Pry Tool Kits with Storage Bag
2 X PIONEER TS-SW2502S4
2 X JL Audio C2-350x 3.5-Inch 2 Way Speakers
Multimeter (Positive vs. Negative wire lead verification)
1 X Pioneer TS-SW2002D2 (Only for 2LT and 3LT trim)

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Option 1 Pros

- PIONEER TS-SW2502S4 and JL Audio C2-350x 3.5-Inch 2 Way Speakers fit into their respective bolt holes without fabrication
- According to snampro, "Wow, this upgrade made a big difference! The sound improvement is noticeable. The difference between the stock Bose items and these aftermarket speakers is obvious." Without hearing it, I am inclined to agree. The BOSE speakers are trash, as illustrated in the images provided in this thread, and as documented by countless threads on the subject.
- You will only be replacing speakers. No new wiring, amps, or digital signal processors are required, nor is it necessary to remove factory audio compensation microphones.
- This option is much cheaper than option 2.
- This option does not address the tweeters or center speaker in the dash...(dash details to come, according to snampro)
- With this option you will have accomplished much of the necessary noise reduction necessary for a custom DSP audio upgrade should you decide to move to Option 2 in the future.


Option 1 Cons

- This will not eliminate the dreaded "Bose Bass Rolloff" (the stock amp contains EQ protocols that automatically lower bass levels as volume rises). The only work around for this annoying problem is Option 2 (described below).
- As Jamie outlines in 31, the 10" subs in the doors are subwoofers, so you are not improving any midrange with this upgrade. You will still be relying on the crappy stock rear speakers, which, in Option 2, would be disconnected to give way to the true sound stage.
- If your C7 is an 1LT (like mine), you will not be able to change out the 8" sub because your car does not contain that sub nor the factor subwoofer harness in the rear, nor the same amp in 2LTs and 3LTs. There is quite a bit more to the 1LT subwoofer challenge which I have researched. THIS HAS NOT YET BEEN DISCUSSED IN THIS THREAD, and I will detail below.

Option 1 Cost-Benefit Analysis
Loctite $5.34 (+ tax, free shipping Amazon)
Kilmat 80mil 36 sqft $55.99 (+tax, free shipping) [Amazon]
Ogrmar Wheel Roller $5.99 (+tax, free shipping) [Amazon]
MATCC Car Panel Removal Tools Kit $22.98 (+tax, free shipping) [Amazon]
Multimeter ($10, Walmart)
2 X PIONEER TS-SW2502S4 @$73.88 (no tax, free shipping, brand new) [eBay]
2 X 2 X JL Audio C2-350 @$74.95 (no tax, free shipping, brand new) [eBay]
Pioneer TS-SW2002D2 (**2LT/3LT only**) $66.27 (no tax, free shipping, brand new) [eBay]

1LT Total $405.41
2LT/3LT total $471.68

Bottom line: I'd estimate a professional install would cost an additional $1000 in labor, plus tax, give or take a few hundred. That is assuming $100/hr @10hours). So, call it $1100 labor plus materials = around $1600. So, doing DIY Option 1 saves around $1100 in labor and you will have done most, if not all, of the noise deadening yourself, assuming you hire a car stereo shop to augment the job at a later date (for example, dash speakers).

If this is a stepping-stone to Option 2, at a later date, then you will sacrifice at least your 10" Pioneer Woofers as they will no longer be needed. But, at around $150, this is not a major loss.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Option 2

With Jamie's solution, you will create a true sound stage by disconnecting the rear speakers and replacing the front factory speakers, using a 6.5" midbass and a 3" Midrange in each door, and 2 tweeters in the dash. Your bass will be supplied by a subwoofer in the rear, although exact details have not yet been provided (see 25). Exact replacement of dash speakers (tweeter and center) has also not yet been described in detail.

An alternative method proposed by JMII (28) is to upgrade the 10" door woofers, 3.5" door mids, and a 3.5" center.

Option 2 Pros:

- In both of the above solutions, you will eliminate the "Bose Bass Rolloff" with the addition of a Digital Signal Processor (DSP).
- You will be delivering appropriate power to your new high-end speakers via a new high-end amp (amps?), such as described in 25.

Option 2 Cons

- Replacing the 10" subs with a midrange solution will require a plate fabrication (fab) as shown in 67.
- The stock rear speakers will be disconnected and rendered useless. The gurus do not recommend replacing these for a proper stage.
- The rear subwoofer must either be replaced as in Option 1, or disconnected and replaced with a custom box in a new location, such in the rear cubby as described in 25.
- If your C7 is an 1LT (like mine), you will not be able to change out the 8" sub because your car does not contain the factory subwoofer harness in the rear, nor the same amp that is stock in 2LTs and 3LTs. There is quite a bit more to the 1LT subwoofer challenge which I have researched. ** THIS HAS NOT YET BEEN DISCUSSED IN THIS THREAD, and I will detail below.**
- Requires installation of a DSP (such as the NAV TV 650)
- Requires installation of custom amp or amps and additional speaker wire/data cable
- Requires possible installation of an EQ (25)
- Requires more expertise than Option 1 and likely a professional install to complete the job
- Far more expensive than Option 1

Option 2 Cost-Benefit Analysis
Loctite $5.34 (+ tax, free shipping Amazon)
Kilmat 80mil 36 sqft $55.99 (+tax, free shipping) [Amazon]
Ogrmar Wheel Roller $5.99 (+tax, free shipping) [Amazon]
MATCC Car Panel Removal Tools Kit $22.98 (+tax, free shipping) [Amazon]
Multimeter ($10, Walmart)
Pioneer TS-SW2002D2 (**2LT/3LT only**) $66.27 (no tax, free shipping, brand new) [eBay], or other subwoofer/enclosure solution (see notes, below)
2 X Arc Audio X2 1100.5 Multi-channel Amplifier @$699 (no tax, free shipping, brand new) [eBay]
PS8 Digital processor 31 band EQ $949.99 (no tax, free shipping, brand new) [eBay]
NAV TV gm 650 $849.99 (direct navtv.com)
2 X ARC Audio RS1, 2X Arc Audio RS3, 2X Arc Audio RS5 $?? (I can't find any pricing on Arc Audio), so figure a range of $500-1200 for your speakers
Fabrication(s) $?? (>$100, I'm guessing)
Additional wiring and other parts and materials $150

Jamie's high-end solution: $4757 in parts, plus estimate $1200 in labor anything you don't do yourself
My low range estimate for Option 2 (utilizing mid-tier solution speakers, amps, and DSP): $3632 plus $1200 in labor for anything you don't do yourself

Bottom line: $5k - $6k assuming you DIY Option 1, but use the Option 2 door speakers, and then have a stereo shop do the rest.


** Notes:

- This is assuming an upgrade of the existing stock subwoofer in 2LT/3LT. Jamie (25) is going with a custom sub solution utilizing the rear storage cubby, which is a dealbreaker for me. For my 1LT sub solution, see below near end of thread.

- I could not find any pricing info on the ARC Audio speakers, but a realistic range using other mid-priced solutions (such as JL Audio) is around $550, or up to $1200 if you select high-end speakers such as Focal.

- motojager (51) proposes an alternative DSP: ARC Audio RS1, which appears to be a cheaper alternative to the NAV TV gm 650 and saves $460-$500 (have not priced this out rigorously)

**************************************** **************************************** *********

ADDITIONAL SUB-SECTION ON ADDING A REAR SUB FOR 1LTs by integrating an 2LT/3LT factory harness, sub, trim, and amp

Unfortunately, integrating a sub in this fashion sucks for 1LT owners, because your car does not contain the 2LT/3LT factory sub harness, the stock amp that powers the sub, or the appropriate rear trim. So, you have to go down this path:

1) Obtain the factory sub harness/assembly (#23274906) (eBay ~$150)
2) Obtain the 10 speaker system stock sub amp (#23404447) (eBay ~$350)
3) Obtain the rear panel trim to house the sub (cultragfactoryparts.com ~$150)

No way would I shell out $350 for a used POS stock Bose amp, so I would replace that with an aftermarket solution such as Alpine or Rockford.

So, before you even attempt to install this solution you will be out around $650 in parts


References:

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...subwoofer.html

https://www.cultragfactoryparts.com/...rear-body-scat


- - - - - - - - -

A FINAL WORD

I post this for a few reasons:

1) Hoping to inspire snampro, jamiejam1, and JMII to come back and contribute to the thread with commentary/images
2) Get opinions on my summary from the guys above as well as anyone else who wishes to comment
3) Finalize my research so I can take it to a couple of local custom shops and get some estimates, then report back here


Unless I am way off on my research, I am leaning toward option 1, because of the following rationale:

If you assume the stock car stereo is (on a scale of 1-10), about a 4 or 5 (this is being very forgiving of the crap stock Bose system)...Then, assume that Option 1 will take you to a 6, 7, or maybe even an 8 out of 10 for under $500 and 12 hours of DIY labor. Then, assume that Option 2 will take you to a 9.5 or 10 for around $5k, minimum.

I am leaning Option 1 unless I gather more information that changes my mind. The beauty of Option 1 is that it takes you part of the way toward Option 2 which you can do later if you are not satisfied with your result.

Don't get me wrong, I have previously had a full custom car stereo w/DSP, high end (Focal) speakers, and dedicated amps (Alpine), and it is just a different world in sound. But, based on the lack of data on custom jobs (plus the fact that I am in the market for a new or lightly used Z06 before the end of 2020), I think Option 1 makes more sense for me at this time, although I am certainly open-minded.

All questions and comments are appreciated.

Paul

Woodson

Outstanding job on the summary Paul. Only suggested change from me is changing all the LT1, LT2, LT3 to 1LT, 2LT, 3LT. Minor point for sure, but since the summary is so great that stands out.

I'm going baby steps. I am doing the sub in the back and the kilmat in the back and the doors as a start. The deep freeze hits today so maybe I'll head out to my (heated) garage to tackle it this weekend.

JMII

Excellent summary

If I was in the 1LT camp I would throw this in: http://www.vettenuts.net/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1540
At $400 (with NO sub) its not cheap but looks decent and upgrades you to a 10" without losing too much storage space. The sub they recommend (JL Audio 10 W3) has nearly 6" of mounting depth so the slim / shallow mount subwoofer limitation of the factory box is instantly removed from the equation. The box volume is similar to the factory enclosure at .62 cu ft. (factory is .5 cu ft). This is large enough for most mainstream subwoofers.

Actually my proposal is to KEEP the factory speakers except the sub and maybe the tweeters. I think if you cross over the door woofers so they only run mid-bass frequencies you can overcome their main weakness. They are clearly crappy woofers but might make decent mid-bass drivers (needs testing). Would aftermarket speakers be better? Sure but I'm taking the lazy, budget route here and am trying to avoid removing the door panels if possible. Long term I'd recommending pulling them just do some much needed sound deading tasks. Once the panels are off you've done the hard work so might as well swap out the speakers. Then I would drop in an Infinity 3 way set (Kappa Perfect 900 for example). These have 6x9 instead of an 8" or 10" but if you've got the subwoofer sorted you don't need massive bass drivers up front. Frequencies below about 80Hz are omni-directional so with a proper DSP you'll still have a good front sound stage. If you can run a 8" or 10" up front then go for it, but ONLY if you can get enough sound deading to keep the doors from rattling with low bass notes.

I contend that the core problems with C7's system are as follows...
and this is the order of how I believe it effects what you actually HEAR.
1) Bass roll off / Bose auto-EQ + noise cancelling nonsense
2) Lack of a true sub-bass output
3) Weak amplifier
4) Crappy speakers

Corrections required per problem listed above:
1) Replace factory amp using an OEM integration unit plus DSP
2) Get a real subwoofer
3) Get a real amp. TIP - if you did #1 you are pretty much forced into #3
4) Get real speakers

Going straight to #4 and skipping #1 + #3 is a waste to me. Your awesome new speakers, while sounding better, still have the Bose bass roll off and the weak sauce factory amp can't push them anyway. This is like putting a huge wing on the back of your car for more downforce before doing tire or engine upgrade to take advantage of it.

My recommended system and budget:
$415 OEM interface & DSP = AX-DSP-MOST1
$220 5 channel amp = NVX JDA 900.5 (see note below)
$130 8” shallow mount sub (3LT factory box) = Kicker CompRT 8"
====
$765
Figure another $100 for wiring and misc connectors, various screws, etc.

Installation cost? Unsure as I've been DYI-ing this stuff since the mid 80s. If you comfortable with wiring and taking apart a few interior panels this should be straight forward. All the wires you need access to are at the factory amp location in the hatch. I would reuse the factory speaker wires since we are not running much power or any ultra high-end component drivers here. The only question is where the 5 channel amp goes. At this point I have to assume under the front seat which complicates things but doesn't require custom tools or fabrication skills. In theory this is a "bolt-on" upgrade with some plug-n-play connections on the factory wiring side, plus a standard aftermarket amplifier install along with an easy speaker swap at the factory sub box. Honestly tuning the DSP would likely occupy the most time if a profession shop handled this.

I plan on installing the system outlined above in the spring / early summer. Current budget is dedicated to track wheels and tires. I will make one small modification: I'll put a JBL MS-8 in for DSP duties and use it to power the center channel plus tweeters to enhance the front sound stage. If the tweeters sound like crap I might switch them out too,

NOTE: I would configure the amp to mirror the factory setup minus the rear and center channel speakers:
Channel 1 & 2 = factory door woofers and tweeters running high pass (>80Hz)
Channel 3 & 4 = factory door mids running band pass (frequencies to be determined)
Channel 5 = aftermarket subwoofer running low (<80Hz)
If you want the center and rear channels back (not necessary) then add NVX MVPA4 (mini 4 channel amp) to power them and reconfigure the DSP accordingly.

ZO6 cracker