Rapid Fred

Looking to buy a C7 and casting a wide net. The following is intriguing to say the least. It has about $13K (list) of options I want. It is white over red which is right at the top of my preference list. And, it is cheaper than any equivalent C7's with such low miles that I have run across: https://www.johnsonmotors.com/invent...yc2d72g5104072

Well, guess why -- it's a California "Lemon Buyback." This vehicle comes with a bumper-to-bumper limited factory warranty 12 months or 12,000 miles. It also comes with a powertrain limited factory warranty that ends 11/14/20 or 60,927 miles (22 months). That's about the same as a CPO Vette.

I've done plenty of research. I'm reading that cali lemon laws are not untypical of "People's Republic of California screw the business" legislation. That you can basically "regret" a purchase and with minimal difficulty force a buyback. That these are often good, dependable, "finally fixed" cars with real enforceable warranties. Needless to say the dealer is pushing this narrative!

But, I am still skeptical. I've done a Forum search. Except for the usual "I would never..." folks I did not find much real info. And so, can anybody provide specific info about these cars? I would love to hear from:

• Folks who own, or had owned, a Vette that had been a lemon buyback vehicle (and you knew that when you bought it).
• California attorneys with relevant experience defending or prosecuting lemon buyback issues (preferably in California)
• Salespeople (current or ex) with experience in lemon buyback cars (especially in California)
• Prior owners from "liberal" lemon law states who had lemons and did return their cars.

Now understand I am very comfortable with calculated risks. The best deal I ever got on a Vette was a rebuilt title Z06 that I bought cheap and sold cheap; driving almost for free for 18 months. So please, if you think looking at this Cali reject is stupid, would never do it, claim I can get an equivalent one for a couple grand more without the return "stigma," etc. -- please just ignore this post! I'm not here to debate anything -- just gathering evidence.

Thanks in advance to anybody who can provide me (and anybody else considering the risk/reward of a branded tag car) real info that would be useful in making this decision!

Fred

c54u

I would get a dealer to run a VIN check on the car to see what repairs that it was in for. This may give you an idea what the problem(s) were to cause the buy back.

LarryFL

Some things to consider..
Many insurance companies will not insure branded cars (lemon law buyback is a 'brand' on the title) because true value cannot be determined.
Bank of America refused to finance a 'lemon' branded car when I last inquired, which is why I gave up considering a nearly new Z06 vert for $60K. Good price, but didn't want to pay cash. Maybe just me, but if I could afford $60K cash on a toy, I would just finance a new loaded up one for for $100,000 at 3 or 4%.

There is a dealer in WI who specializes in GM buybacks. When I inquired about what was replaced on a Z51, they reluctantly and vaguely said "the engine". Ok, so a new engine in a Corvette seems ok to some, but not me. Consider this long term review from Car and Driver:
"But the dry-sump oiling system included with the $2800 Z51 package could not prevent the engine from self-destructing. It grenaded at 6000 miles, when we rolled onto a local chassis dynamometer to meas*ure the LT1’s power at the pavement. The engine started to eat itself before we could begin the testing in earnest.".
As per C&D, GM did replaced the engine under warranty, but as per one of their reviewers.... "Count me as one who thinks that the replacement engine has not married to the clutch and transmission as seamlessly as the original." I know, not scientific, but I would not consider a replaced engine worth the same as a factory installed engine. There had to be a huge discount.

2014 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray Z51 Manual

So ask yourself two questions:
1. If the car was repaired to perfect factory condition, why would GM wait until after they were sued and forced to buyback the car to make the repairs.? The issue was too elusive to deal with, so they missed their deadline.
2. if they were forced to buy back the car, why would they bother to fix it properly if the original complaining owner is out of the picture and the car is off to auction anyways?

Don't just assume is must have been a picky CA owner complaining about a trim piece being out of alignment, because GM doesn't buy back cars for that reason (they would just fix the damn thing, no?). Anything is cheaper than buying back a used car for new, so if GM was forced into it, there must have been a very good reason.

Bottom line is that discount must be substantial, and check your insurance and finance company.


.

Rapid Fred

^^^^^^^^^^
Luckily this car is not a Z51 -- and I recall it was not a replacement engine case in any event! 2 weeks ago I had asked this dealer about the reasons why. Sounded innocuous at the time, given the warranty. It even passed the logic check (clever dealer I suppose). I should have written it down but easy to begin the diligence process anew once my '08 sells.

I think the answer to your question number 2 is the 12 month b2b warranty and nearly 2 years on the powertrain. They don't want to go through that hassle again!

What is your insurance company? I had no problem whatever insuring my "R-titled" Z06 with Liberty Mutual. My current insurer (Penn National) will NOT insure any branded title. My agent said to go with "Safeco" if I decide on a branded car. In fact, he recommends I switch all my policies to them anyway -- he has an "R-titled" car and uses Safeco. They seem to get OK reviews.

And financing is not an issue in my case.

This will not be a toy. I DD my Vettes.

I will of course take all the steps you recommended.

LarryFL

Ok, they'll give you the remainder of the factory warranties (b2b and pt). But remember, GM will not give a lemon car a Certified Pre-Owned warranty, even when sold from a Chevy dealer. I asked, and was told GM wouldn't authorize it. That should give you pause.
.

Mobil 1

If it's a 2016 the bumper to bumper warranty is over. Are they giving you an extra 12 months?
I bought my loaded 2005 Dodge Durango with 5000 miles on it from a dealer here in Phoenix in 2005. Dodge did a buyback from a lady in California. All the dealer work order visits that she did was given to me. The complaint was truck would stall out intermittently. I got the truck for a little under 10k then the sticker. The previous dealer in California had reflashed the computer 3 times, replaced the torque converter (I assume they thought it was locking up when it shouldn't) and a few other things.
The truck drove fine until my wife filled the gas tank up about a week later. As she pulled out of the gas station it stumbled and stalled at the first traffic red light but started right back up and ran fine. About 2 weeks later I filled the gas tank and guess what...it stumbled and stalled on me but started up and ran fine. I knew what the problem was immediately. I had them replace the fuel tank which contains the pressure relief valve. Later on it became a recall on these vehicles. It now has almost 180,000 miles and still going strong.
The history of the Corvette in question should be given to you so you know exactly what the complaint was and what attempts were done to fix it.

LarryFL

Interesting, when I was shopping Corvettes 2 months ago, I was told by BoA they won't finance a branded titled car, and Progressive told be I couldn't insure one. What insurance do you use?

Btw, these are guys I was talking about who sell lemons...excellent prices until you see the AutoCheck.

https://www.vanhornchevy.net

tcinla

CPO is basically a warranty. It means nothing beyond that. Most dealers don't bother doing the "150 point inspection" or whatever. It's a marketing tool. Just remember most dealers will scr-w you anyway they can to make that $$.

Rapid Fred

Rapid Fred

LarryFL

It extends those warranties for years and miles after original warranties end. Just look it up on the Chevy site to see what CPO gives you, but besides extending the warranties, they fix everything on the car hat is not perfect and replace the tires if needed. It costs them money and they can charge more for the car. I thought it was odd that the original warranty persists on a lemon, but they can't qualify the car for CPO.

Rapid Fred

Rapid Fred

Makitso

Interesting Auto Check says it is a one owner car, but someone put 927 miles on it before the in service
date that starts the factory warranty.

Rykros

I live in California and had my vehicle voluntarily bought back by GM under lemon law. If you check my one and only forum thread you can get the details there, suffice to say I had a pretty solid lemon law case on two fronts. Would have been three if my TC issues continued which they were likely to(doesn't apply to your car).

California lemon law is more "consumer friendly" but it does have a strictly defined set of criteria so it is not simply a case of "regretting your purchase" else people would literally be buying and lemoning cars to drive them for years at no cost. This dealership is definitely pushing this narrative because it's in their best interest. Make no mistake, you need one of the above to be true and GM either needs to voluntarily buyback or you go to arbitrage/lawyer up. They lose money in this process so they have all sorts of incentive to deny or fight frivolous buybacks.

I'll try to summarize the conditions for California Lemon Law from what I remember because its kind of a pain in the *** to find :
Car is in the shop more than 30 days for repairs.
Failure to fix a driveability issue more than twice
Failure to fix a non-driveability issue something like more than 5 times.
Any warrantied repair resulting in a significant decrease in the value of the vehicle.


In theory my car would have fallen under your "finally fixed" category, so take that for what it is. On a positive note, it was a relatively straightforward process and I'm glad GM didn't require me to lawyer up. On the negative side I will say that the engine replacement was very likely the reason my torque tube malfunctioned only a few thousand miles later, so dealership incompetence is a big risk for buying any of these. Depending on what they ended up replacing for that, it is my understanding that there could be residual damage to other parts that has yet to surface. In the end, as you said, it is certainly up to your appetite for risk against the cost savings.

Rapid Fred

Mobil 1

My 2016 1LT Stingray has 27k on it and has been meticulously taken care of since I leased it new. I was going to buy out the lease but instead I'm leasing a new GS in February. If your looking for a nice arctic white A8 with red seats and black wheels and red calipers and NPP exhaust the buy out is 38500 plus tax comes to 40k and change.

Rapid Fred

Thanks, but I am a stick guy...

Rapid Fred

Rykros --

Great write-up. I went back to your prior thread. Very sobering.

Hope to hear more about these -- good and bad...

Skid Row Joe

Doesn't sound like a bad price. IIWY, I'd go ahead with the purchase. Provided you can get the extension factory warranty on it. Texas has rock solid Lemon Law, FWIW. Works like a charm for victims of the auto maker.