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Free C7 TB Mod Rework/Recalibration for PTBs*

 
Old 03-06-2019, 03:42 PM
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I did not do the ECM reset because I assumed it wasn't necessary. I think my results showed that it was not necessary. I had zero driveability issues, and the one stumble I observed could just as easily have been my crappy shifting vice the changes to the car...

check your email, you should have access to my SolerEngTB folder with the three PDR captures so far.
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Old 03-06-2019, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by snampro View Post
I did not do the ECM reset because I assumed it wasn't necessary. I think my results showed that it was not necessary. I had zero driveability issues, and the one stumble I observed could just as easily have been my crappy shifting vice the changes to the car...

check your email, you should have access to my SolerEngTB folder with the three PDR captures so far.
Got them and watched them, looks pretty good for the first day after install, it should get even better. Glad you liked it.
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Old 03-06-2019, 07:33 PM
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I should have other data from the OBD II reader, I'll let you know if I get that sorted...
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Old 03-06-2019, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by snampro View Post
I should have other data from the OBD II reader, I'll let you know if I get that sorted...
I don't have a PDR, 14
What OBD reader are you using? I bought one that was suppose to graph all sorts of things and the sole graph it worked for on the Vette was the battery voltage. I returned it.
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Old 03-06-2019, 09:39 PM
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I have an OBDLink Mx I use with Torque Pro for the Z. I also have a Bluedriver i use in my other cars.

Finished my 50 miles and did some shopping, then went for a more spirited drive with an ambient temp of 22 degrees Fahrenheit. Drove very well, excellent response, no problems. Drove in Tour, Sport, Track, Weather and Eco modes. No issues at all. No issue in Eco when it switched between V8 and V4 and back.

Mike, uploaded three move PDR mp4s and this time logged OBDII data, three of those...
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Old 03-06-2019, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by snampro View Post
I have an OBDLink Mx I use with Torque Pro for the Z. I also have a Bluedriver i use in my other cars.

Finished my 50 miles and did some shopping, then went for a more spirited drive with an ambient temp of 22 degrees Fahrenheit. Drove very well, excellent response, no problems. Drove in Tour, Sport, Track, Weather and Eco modes. No issues at all. No issue in Eco when it switched between V8 and V4 and back.

Mike, uploaded three move PDR mp4s and this time logged OBDII data, three of those...
Thanks for the info. So you prefer the OBDLink MX over the Bluedriver for a particular reason?
The interwebz says the MPSS will explode and kill everyone within a 666 mile radius if driven on below 40f so what tires are you using? AS3?

I have around 75 miles on the car with the Solar TB and will be driving to LMR to meet a couple of forum guys in the morning. That drive, around 300 miles, should be enough for the car to figure out the TB, I hope. I may need to drain the ECU caps if not. I need to do an oil change anyway, so that would be a good time to let the system discharge.

Side note, on cars with sensitive electronics it is best to slow drain the capacitors by using a test light to short out the positive and negative cables, instead of just disconnecting the neg cable and shorting it strait to the positive post, which will cause a voltage spike in the system. LED ones are slower to use but a tad safer than incandescent bulb test lights.
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Old 03-07-2019, 03:52 AM
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I prefer the OBDLink because it will work with any app. The Bluedriver is great and their app is great, but it is locked down and only works with their app.

Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4, stock sizes.


MPSS ZP left, Alpin right

Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4 fitted on my Z06

Out for a drive just to see how the tires and car do in some thin but slippery snow...I usually don't do this, but felt adventurous this particular day.

https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tires.j...oModClar=Coupe

(Sorry for hijacking the thread)
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Old 03-12-2019, 02:21 AM
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Default Soler Performance Throttle Body In Depth Review

Hi all, finally have the time to write this!

Quick background: stock 2018 Z06 A8 (except for Tony Mamo PTB). The only thing that has always bothered me about my vette was the sluggish throttle response early on. I have owned/driven countless performance/sports cars and I noticed it right away. What did I do? Looked on forums, contacted the dealer, looked everywhere. I ended up buying a mamo PTB. I was okay, a bit better than the OEM, I guess. But I was expecting a lot more based on all the reviews and the dead spot right ofter idle was still there. I was giving up hope, so much that I even considered trading in for a P-car (be gentle please). Around this time, I came across with a post and what is now known as Soler Performance (Soler Engineering).

The Review:

I sent my Tony Mamo PTB to get reworked, it took about a week to be finished (give or take). I also spoke to mike on the phone (nice guy, he genuinely tries to help his customers and I was constantly reassured). When I got the new TB, the box came with instructions (both installation and testing), some business cards, and a pen. My initial impressions of the TB were:

It was clean, clear reworked areas going deeper/further than the previous PTB, I guess due to the previous work done on it, they don't look as nice as the new ones on their website. But definitely, you can see a difference.

I followed the instructions and installed it, blah, blah, blah. the first time I took it out for a drive, I noticed a huge difference right away, a bit wild but fantastic. It felt responsive, powerful, like a completely different car! the next two days it kept getting better, more linear and adjusted. but still not 100%. total miles driven ~<50 up to that point. I got impatient and disconnected my battery to speed up the process. and it worked! my only critique is that this is the way it should be done, not that the other way is wrong, but it is unpredictable... it could take a day, a week, or maybe more... Too many variables, learned values, driving styles, mods, etc...

This throttle body is it! if it is not perfect.. I don't know what is. the rest of my time driving has been an absolute pleasure. EVERYTHING is effortless; coming out of stops, driving in traffic, passing others, daily commuting, the way it should be! The lag and hesitation are gone, no dead spot off idle.

I also measured and compared results to see if they match Mike's/Soler Performance claims. Long story short, this is my humble review/observations on Soler Performance and the numbers don't lie. You guys have done something truly special. Below are some key points of my data stream.

@4% Throttle position: ~6 grams per second(MAF).
@9% Throttle position: ~11 grams per second(MAF).
@16% Throttle position: ~20 grams per second(MAF).
@21% Throttle position: ~35 grams per second(MAF).
@25% Throttle position: ~53 grams per second(MAF).
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Old 03-12-2019, 03:28 PM
  #49  
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McNulty, thanks for the review, I'm glad you liked it.

You are not the first to point out the resulting finish of the rework, and you are right about the previous PTB surface condition, there is only so much we can do about that and it heavily depends on the work that was done before from your original PTB supplier. Rework of some brands will end up looking better than others.

Resetting the ECM turned out to make a big difference in terms of how fast it re-learns our MTB. Thanks for doing that. I have passed that info down to other customers and we are making that part of our standard instructions.

The data you sent us is invaluable to us. Here are some snapshots of your stream somewhere close to the values you posted. There is a small correction to be made as the data shown in plot is in terms of throttle angle and your stream was in terms of throttle % (TP). No big deal, almost the same.

4% = 3.6 deg in plot
9% = 8.1
16% = 14.4
21% = 18.9
25% = 22.5

Here are some snapshots from McNulty's data stream closely corresponding with data points reported here:






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Old 03-12-2019, 04:10 PM
  #50  
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Is the dip in manifold pressure normal?
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Old 03-13-2019, 12:09 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Oh4GTO View Post
Is the dip in manifold pressure normal?
Yeah that is weird. didn't notice that, shouldn't it always increase? I'm not sure...

This was also done in my garage with no engine load... Maybe that has something to do with it.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:07 AM
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I'd think at constant load you should get fairly constant manifold pressure. Now, this is a Z06, do you know where the manifold pressure sensor is located? Is it right after the TB (supercharger inlet) or at the plenum (supercharger outlet)? Or maybe there are two of them, one in each place. Which one is the one on the log? See pic below.

I'm pretty sure you did not get any boost anywhere in your TB sweep, for the bypass valve should have remained open, but the supercharger is still spinning, so there should be a difference in pressure/vacuum depending on where you measured it and it seems to me that it would be more unstable at the plenum where the pistons will be taking the air more directly.

Or maybe, a drop on internal friction load when all the moving parts reach certain speed, or a momentarily drop on load depending on motion rate of pedal/blade.


Z06 Air Induction System
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:24 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by McNultyZ06 View Post
Hi all, finally have the time to write this!

Quick background: stock 2018 Z06 A8 (except for Tony Mamo PTB). The only thing that has always bothered me about my vette was the sluggish throttle response early on. I have owned/driven countless performance/sports cars and I noticed it right away. What did I do? Looked on forums, contacted the dealer, looked everywhere. I ended up buying a mamo PTB. I was okay, a bit better than the OEM, I guess. But I was expecting a lot more based on all the reviews and the dead spot right ofter idle was still there. I was giving up hope, so much that I even considered trading in for a P-car (be gentle please). Around this time, I came across with a post and what is now known as Soler Performance (Soler Engineering).

The Review:

I sent my Tony Mamo PTB to get reworked, it took about a week to be finished (give or take). I also spoke to mike on the phone (nice guy, he genuinely tries to help his customers and I was constantly reassured). When I got the new TB, the box came with instructions (both installation and testing), some business cards, and a pen. My initial impressions of the TB were:

It was clean, clear reworked areas going deeper/further than the previous PTB, I guess due to the previous work done on it, they don't look as nice as the new ones on their website. But definitely, you can see a difference.

I followed the instructions and installed it, blah, blah, blah. the first time I took it out for a drive, I noticed a huge difference right away, a bit wild but fantastic. It felt responsive, powerful, like a completely different car! the next two days it kept getting better, more linear and adjusted. but still not 100%. total miles driven ~<50 up to that point. I got impatient and disconnected my battery to speed up the process. and it worked! my only critique is that this is the way it should be done, not that the other way is wrong, but it is unpredictable... it could take a day, a week, or maybe more... Too many variables, learned values, driving styles, mods, etc...

This throttle body is it! if it is not perfect.. I don't know what is. the rest of my time driving has been an absolute pleasure. EVERYTHING is effortless; coming out of stops, driving in traffic, passing others, daily commuting, the way it should be! The lag and hesitation are gone, no dead spot off idle.

I also measured and compared results to see if they match Mike's/Soler Performance claims. Long story short, this is my humble review/observations on Soler Performance and the numbers don't lie. You guys have done something truly special. Below are some key points of my data stream.

@4% Throttle position: ~6 grams per second(MAF).
@9% Throttle position: ~11 grams per second(MAF).
@16% Throttle position: ~20 grams per second(MAF).
@21% Throttle position: ~35 grams per second(MAF).
@25% Throttle position: ~53 grams per second(MAF).


What APP or whatever are you using to get those Datastream screen caps? So far I have downloaded the OBDlink app just to look at but haven't bought any hardware yet.

Thanks
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Old 03-13-2019, 09:01 PM
  #54  
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650+ miles on the TB, did the initial TB learn procedure but I hadn't tried the ECU reset via power drain yet. The batt is disconnected now and I will see how that goes, but so far the car has not learned to cope with the TB fully and the non linear throttle control is liken to really shitty throttle mapping from a bad tune. The car can't keep a steady speed under almost no throttle, say trying to go 30mph, and it wants to accelerate quite a bit beyond the input given to reach and maintain that speed. The cruise is working fairly well at highway speeds but it still has issues with the torque converter staying locked in too low RPM which causes lugging and stumbling. It reminds me of driving my farms 1930 three wheel ford tractor when I was 10. lol The AFM/DOD seems to activate early currently and causes it to compound the torque converter issue as the car kinda slams into V4 mode like a jerk. I will give it another chance and see how it drives as I have quite a few errands to run tomorrow.

Anyone have data to give me an idea what amount of pedal angle (what is called requested torque to the ECU for some tuning software, but maybe not whatever the lingo is for HPtuners or EFI live) is required to open the TB to the point in which it creates that whistle sound? Just curious as I only get it at a very narrow window, one in which is more aggressive than I can typically operate the car in given my commute.
I did get to drive the car hard enough to do a lot of scraping in sport setting with the MRC this weekend and it was fun and all but I know the car wasn't really digging it under what seemed like 10-15% and 20-70% throttle input. Under WOT the car performed like it should given the temps were in the upper 80s and I had some traction but the aforementioned ranges seemed to be lacking in precision of execution of pedal input and the engines power output. I need some software and a wideband! lol

All that being said is proof that the mod is effective, otherwise the car would not be acting differently, but currently combined with the Mamo work it isn't a step forward on a stock tune and so far, in my opinion, may be best suited to a non molested TB, which I don't own. lol (fingers crossed that the battery trick does the job like mentioned with the syncing of the TBs on a Viper as an example)

Thanks Mike for forging ahead in this area and providing us a free example of your engineering prowess to test.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:43 PM
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Yourconfused, thanks for your insights. I'm glad you are trying the ECM reset. It has worked very well for everybody else. Please, let us know how it goes.

Like I said before, if after the reset your 2014's A6 doesn't like your test unit the way it is or if its something else, we'll get you one that works. Worst case scenario, we'll get you back to where you started.

PS: We've reworked 5ea test samples of that PTB brand including mine and yours and the other 4ea worked even better after resetting ECM. None of those other 4ea were 2014's, but we tested a SE8223-100 (our new part) on a 2014 A6 and it worked well. All those reviews are here.

I'm fairly optimistic in that this a good part, and that it will be fine after resetting ECM. I personally tried your reworked TB in my car and it performed as designed and w/o issues. We'll see.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:54 PM
  #56  
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Following this thread, I wont have my car out for probably a few more weeks yet, but I'll reset the ecm first and do the relearn procedure.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:12 AM
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I had been waiting to post my thoughts on the Mamo throttle body rework, because it took a little time to get to the point that my car is at now. I had the exact same issue that @Yourconfused is having now. To be honest I was a bit deflated after the install, as the throttle pedal actually felt WORSE than it did with the stock throttle body. The off-idle stumble was horrendous, the pedal wasn't linear at all and I had gone through a full week of drive cycles. I reached out to Mike and he asked if I was against the idea of an overnight battery disconnect procedure to reset everything and try again. I figured that was definitely worth a try rather than waiting for a new Mamo PTB, so that's what I did.

I'm pretty happy to say that the battery disconnect really solved the problem. From the very first time I started the car after reconnecting the battery, it was driveable and the throttle pedal was responsive. It still had a couple points in the rpm sweep where it would feel like it was pulling timing and then the timing came back, (bog and then surge) but that seemed to be immediately smoothed out by the computer each time it happened, and then the next time I ran through that RPM range it was as if nothing had ever happened. Smooth power delivery with partial throttle, the way it should be.

Now I've got a good 100 miles on the car since the reset and everything seems to be 100% working as intended. The throttle pedal is responsive in a way that no other modern GM throttle pedal is, which is EXACTLY what I wanted. This mod isn't for everybody, as you can see by the bickering back and forth about the different ways to solve this problem, but I'm pretty happy with it.

Now here's what this throttle body mod does NOT do: It doesn't make the throttle plate snap open faster than your foot can move. It doesn't get rid of the factory software that "softens" the input from a dead stop to limit driveline shock or prevent WOT before 3200 rpm. It doesn't change ANYTHING that it shouldn't change.

It just makes the car drive like a modern sports car, rather than like a Tahoe, at every point below 40% throttle angle.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Sellout View Post
I had been waiting to post my thoughts on the Mamo throttle body rework, because it took a little time to get to the point that my car is at now. I had the exact same issue that @Yourconfused is having now. To be honest I was a bit deflated after the install, as the throttle pedal actually felt WORSE than it did with the stock throttle body. The off-idle stumble was horrendous, the pedal wasn't linear at all and I had gone through a full week of drive cycles. I reached out to Mike and he asked if I was against the idea of an overnight battery disconnect procedure to reset everything and try again. I figured that was definitely worth a try rather than waiting for a new Mamo PTB, so that's what I did.

I'm pretty happy to say that the battery disconnect really solved the problem. From the very first time I started the car after reconnecting the battery, it was driveable and the throttle pedal was responsive. It still had a couple points in the rpm sweep where it would feel like it was pulling timing and then the timing came back, (bog and then surge) but that seemed to be immediately smoothed out by the computer each time it happened, and then the next time I ran through that RPM range it was as if nothing had ever happened. Smooth power delivery with partial throttle, the way it should be.

Now I've got a good 100 miles on the car since the reset and everything seems to be 100% working as intended. The throttle pedal is responsive in a way that no other modern GM throttle pedal is, which is EXACTLY what I wanted. This mod isn't for everybody, as you can see by the bickering back and forth about the different ways to solve this problem, but I'm pretty happy with it.

Now here's what this throttle body mod does NOT do: It doesn't make the throttle plate snap open faster than your foot can move. It doesn't get rid of the factory software that "softens" the input from a dead stop to limit driveline shock or prevent WOT before 3200 rpm. It doesn't change ANYTHING that it shouldn't change.

It just makes the car drive like a modern sports car, rather than like a Tahoe, at every point below 40% throttle angle.
Sellout, I couldn't be happier it worked out well for you in the end. Your review is on point, that is what my own experience and data shows. We definitely admit that our re-learn instructions were not the most efficient and we thank you for the ECM reset workaround. They are now part of our latest revision of instructions. ECM reset is a must and not an option after install.

The same goes for the "what it does not do" point you made, that is the part of TM that needs tuning and hope it doesn't take a toll on the drive-line, the mechanical problem is gone. Pedal mapping tune or use of throttle controllers, is left optional to the taste and risk tolerance of the driver.
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Old 03-15-2019, 02:44 AM
  #59  
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You can add me to the list of believers. I initially installed the TB and drove about 200 various miles and it just didnt feel right. There were improvements and setbacks in various parts. As a last ditch I pulled the power overnight.

It was a whole new car the next day. I only drove around the city about 10 miles and it was nothing like before. My wife had the car for the next two days. She actually called to ask me what I did because the car was so much fun to drive. It reacted right away to her inputs. She was practically giddy. She likes nice cars but she is no way a gearhead. I think that speaks volumes, real world examples versus all the "theories" that I see happening on the other thread.

Cant wait to get home and put some more miles on it.

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Old 03-15-2019, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Oh4GTO View Post
You can add me to the last of believers. I initially installed the TB and drove about 200 various miles and it just didnt feel right. There were improvements and setbacks in various parts. As a last ditch I pulled the power overnight.

It was a whole new car the next day. I only drove around the city about 10 miles and it was nothing like before. My wife had the car for the next two days. She actually called to ask me what I did because the car was so much fun to drive. It reacted right away to her inputs. She was practically giddy. She likes nice cars but she is no way a gearhead. I think that speaks volumes, real world examples versus all the "theories" that I see happening on the other thread.

Cant wait to get home and put some more miles on it.
Thank you very much Oh4GTO, very happy for you here. It finally learned. It definitely takes erasing the old TB from the ECM for it to work in a timely manner.
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