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Actually he has some excellent posts despite his moniker! If you look, I waited for some time before responding to this thread! If it went away fine although I found the early statement from PowerStop strange: "Thank you for recent purchase of Power Stop Brakes. I have only since one case of the brake rotors turning brown i have not seen another case like that. We have sold hundreds of this brake pads to different vendors that have sold them to customers. It could had been the material exchange between the pad and rotor due to that vehicle having Iron & Ceramic rotors. Chemical reaction when the bedding procedure was done."
I didn't comment but was reminded what I told our “phone doctors" after hearing customer and distributor comments." Reminded them never to say "1st time I have heard of that problem- even if it was!" That is NOT what someone calling want's to hear (about their welding or plasma cutting machine-that was my business not cars- they are a hobby.)
However one post that said something about Wecker3's being the only one with brown rotors - made me respond.
Being retired for 19 years and an old Hot Rodder I have many C7 Mods and some 25+ PDF's I have made on "How To--" for folks like me who are not full time mechanics." I get many positive PM's about them and how they are helpful.. Frankly before I bought PowerStop pads, while my Grand Sport was being built, I read a lot of forum comments and sent PM's to folks who said that they worked fine. I don't blame them, only myself for thinking 8 large quality brake pads could be made for under $75/$80 (after considering the shipping costs and profit made my the importer PowerStop, Amazon and UPS who delivered them for $125 including SC 6% sales tax!)
Since we sold our >>100 million dollar business in 4 years at twice the purchase price to a Swedish company been there many times. I can assure you any smell is not Surstromming (fermented herring- called rotten herring!)
I make the PDF's for forum folks as I provide this info on my experience with brake pads on my 2014 Z51 and Grand Sport All the pics posted are in my PDFs. I just post from my files. Have a lot more and more detailed graphics in my PDF re aerodynamics!
I enjoy doing it and is different than writing the two books for the Cartech Pro Series I did in 2012 and 2015! The first (out of print) entitled "Advanced Automotive Welding." Royalties still coming in from the 2nd!
Note I drive aggressively as well and have said the PowerStop pads stop fine when warm/hot. It's their cold pad performance where I had a issue. In fact would have that with Carborech racing pads- look at the min max pad temp data I provide. It reminded me of the metal brakes I had on my modified Corvair (although not that bad.) My driveway had a steep slope and in the morning it took 2 feet to stop when backing into the street! Note drum brakes have no "self energizing" braking in reverse and metallic brakes need to be hot to stop well. They didn't fade!
Oh you wrote a book, well I guess I must be mistaken then, my rotors must be turning brown and I must be in danger every time I try to stop...
Sorry, but the anti-power stop crowd looks absolutely silly when you get claims like the village idiot made, where he said it was almost dangerous using the power stops, that is absolutely ridiculous.
I know a lot of people who own corvettes and who use power stops and none of them have had the browning rotors or stopping issues, I've only seen these issues mentioned on these forums... 'nuff said.
The pics by wecker3 look like when you wash the car, the rotors turn brown until you use them again.
Wrong !!! I do not wash my car with water and a hose. In the last 3 1/2 years it has not been driven in the rain. It only gets dusty and i wipe it down with detail spray and microfiber towels. For the wheels i use detail spray and swiffer dusters and microfiber towels. I have hard water and even with a water softner get water spots.
Oh you wrote a book, well I guess I must be mistaken then, my rotors must be turning brown and I must be in danger every time I try to stop...
Sorry, but the anti-power stop crowd looks absolutely silly when you get claims like the village idiot made, where he said it was almost dangerous using the power stops, that is absolutely ridiculous.
I know a lot of people who own corvettes and who use power stops and none of them have had the browning rotors or stopping issues, I've only seen these issues mentioned on these forums... 'nuff said.
And by the same guys every time! With no proof just homemade "data".
Oh you wrote a book, well I guess I must be mistaken then, my rotors must be turning brown and I must be in danger every time I try to stop...
Sorry, but the anti-power stop crowd looks absolutely silly when you get claims like the village idiot made, where he said it was almost dangerous using the power stops, that is absolutely ridiculous.
I know a lot of people who own corvettes and who use power stops and none of them have had the browning rotors or stopping issues, I've only seen these issues mentioned on these forums... 'nuff said.
You didn't read what I wrote! I said it was not a high percentage with brown rotors but it was more than one.
I only wrote what I observed and what I found when investigating why the issues. Brown rotors are a materials QA issue, IMO. As Marco Polo stated some folks sure get pissy which is why we have many more silent majority visiting a Thread than ever post! In this case ~1000 visits and about ~20 individuals who have posted on this Thread.
In general, I often post for that silent majority as have no illusion I would change the opinion of some of the vocal minority- nor do I care!
Just trying to provide information so folks making a decision can look at the facts. I also quoted a poster who had the experience I saw every day when aggressively stopping with cold pads:
"But I'll never forget the 1st day I got them installed and I was driving home, I was like "WTF's going on here...I'm gonna end up rear ending somebody"
I lived with that for 900 miles and was not going to risk an accident as I stop aggressively with cold pads when I leave a 4 lane divided highway, every day! Fact is PowerStop pads don't stop as well as OEM or Carbotech 1521 pads when they are cold or in the first stop after they have not been used, like coming off an Interstate. I stated they stopped fine when they were warm or hot.
Oh you wrote a book, well I guess I must be mistaken then, my rotors must be turning brown and I must be in danger every time I try to stop...
Sorry, but the anti-power stop crowd looks absolutely silly when you get claims like the village idiot made, where he said it was almost dangerous using the power stops, that is absolutely ridiculous.
I know a lot of people who own corvettes and who use power stops and none of them have had the browning rotors or stopping issues, I've only seen these issues mentioned on these forums... 'nuff said.
I can careless whether you believe me or not, but the pads are turning the color of my rotors brownish. I've only had them on for 300 miles or so, I'm sure it will get worse as time goes on. This doesn't make me an anti-power stop person, I'm simply sharing my experience with the product. I wont lose sleep if anyone on here doesn't believe me as well not losing sleep over my rotors turning brown. I can easily go into my garage and look at my car and reassure myself that I am not lying. Just because you don't know someone who had the issue doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 'nuff said
And by the same guys every time! With no proof just homemade "data".
Hmm, perhaps you don’t understand the “objective data” I presented in post #17 above. I provided a shorted version below. If not for you or some of the ~20 vocal minority who have posted, perhaps some of the ~1300 silent majority who have viewed or those that will view this thread.
See the data below. These are NOT my numbers they come from Carbotech and PowerStop websites. First, understand brake pad material is like tires and many things in life- a compromise. A great summer performance tire doesn't do well when cold. The pad compounds from Carbotech show min and max temperatures of their street and 3 of the 6 racing pad compounds they have available. There are big differences in the needs of gymkhana and an endurance race car. If the pads will get very hot they are compounded to handle the high temps but then the min temps needed for good braking is also higher. As noted, the Carbotech XP21 race pad can tolerate 2000 deg F BUT need to be heated to 400 F to get good braking. No problem when racing.
The street compound, Carbotech 1521 pads are good to 900F (glowing a faint RED) but only need to be a 50F for optimum stopping (i.e. cold pads.)
The Carbotech RP2 racing pads have a max temp where they can resist fading of 1450 F but need to be at 250F to get good braking performance. They must be warmed by braking.
PowerStop states their street pads as being good to 1500 F. They do not publish the min temp BUT that can be inferred from the 7 pads offered by Carbotech. It is probably 250 degrees F minimum. But great cold pad stops are what I need every time I leave my home as soon after entering a 4 lane divided highway at the end of my street I make a turn onto another rural road. When making that turn I use my Grand Sport brakes very aggressively so cars behind don’t have to slow abruptly! There are often 18 wheeler log trucks in the line of traffic! There is no shoulder to slow.
Putting that in perspective, that 4 lane highway is on the way to Myrtle Beach! In the Spring, Summer and early Fall, traffic is heavy. The speed limit is 60 mph and cars and trucks are typically traveling 70 mph. If I waited for no traffic In both directions it could take a very long time, so I often merge into the fast-moving traffic.
If there is a car waiting to enter the highway on that narrow rural road I turn onto I have to stop abruptly and accurately to enter alongside the car. On my 2014 Z51 did that with the OEM pads for 6 months and for 3 years with Carbotech 1521 pads. The Vette stopped great and very predictably with cold pads.
When I installed the PowerStop pads on my new Grand Sport I bedded them per the instructions. I made several hundred of those stops with cold pad without the confidence I had for 3 1/2 years, especially when another car was waiting to enter the highway and there was little room. In fact, several times I passed up that turn and had to go to the next road where there was a stop light. No stop lights exiting our Country Club (our only exit) or that next rural road I turn into. I waited for 900 miles, had enough inferior cold pad performance, so bought the Carbotech 1521 pads I knew worked well. (Note as I have said the pads worked fine when hot.) That was 2 years ago and have made several thousand stops on that corner with cold pads! The car stops great and predictably.
Perhaps that information and data makes it clear why the PowerStop pads when cold don’t stop as well or with the confidence of the OEM or Carbotech 1521 pads.
I can careless whether you believe me or not, but the pads are turning the color of my rotors brownish. I've only had them on for 300 miles or so, I'm sure it will get worse as time goes on. This doesn't make me an anti-power stop person, I'm simply sharing my experience with the product. I wont lose sleep if anyone on here doesn't believe me as well not losing sleep over my rotors turning brown. I can easily go into my garage and look at my car and reassure myself that I am not lying. Just because you don't know someone who had the issue doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 'nuff said
You didn't read what I wrote! I said it was not a high percentage with brown rotors but it was more than one.
I only wrote what I observed and what I found when investigating why the issues. Brown rotors are a materials QA issue, IMO. As Marco Polo stated some folks sure get pissy which is why we have many more silent majority visiting a Thread than ever post! In this case ~1000 visits and about ~20 individuals who have posted on this Thread.
In general, I often post for that silent majority as have no illusion I would change the opinion of some of the vocal minority- nor do I care!
Just trying to provide information so folks making a decision can look at the facts. I also quoted a poster who had the experience I saw every day when aggressively stopping with cold pads:
"But I'll never forget the 1st day I got them installed and I was driving home, I was like "WTF's going on here...I'm gonna end up rear ending somebody"
I lived with that for 900 miles and was not going to risk an accident as I stop aggressively with cold pads when I leave a 4 lane divided highway, every day! Fact is PowerStop pads don't stop as well as OEM or Carbotech 1521 pads when they are cold or in the first stop after they have not been used, like coming off an Interstate. I stated they stopped fine when they were warm or hot.
For someone who supposedly doesn't care, you seem to find yourself in these postings every single time, with your own homemade graphics no less, lol.
The bottom line is, assuming the complainers are not full of ****, even if we take your complaints as valid, that means that a small percentage of power stop pads are either defective or were installed incorrectly. So...? Even if you just look at this thread, the vast majority of power stop users have zero complaints, and we paid 1/4 the price you paid. Just saying.
The reason I question the complaints is because I personally know about 20 people who are using or have used power stops and none of them experienced the issues I've seen mentioned in this forum. None. Zero. Zilch. And a lot of the complaints are flat out ridiculous unless the pads were defective or installed improperly, like when you or the other guy are worried about colliding with someone because the brake performance is so bad - nonsense.
Jerry U, I think if you post the "data" along with the aerial shot of your death-defying turn one more time you will sell me on the Carbotech pads!
I can see their sales going up already just from this thread.
Condition of the rotors has everything to do with how all brake pads are going to act. We've all taken those short cuts hoping they would seat in to that used surface and be a decent brake. Rarely does this happen. Rotors today cant be turned like those of the past. Usually not enough meat there to work with and being thinner they warp quicker. Its not fair to the pad comparison to not use a new rotor with each type pad. With edges and ridges left behind you are asking a lot of the new pads to adjust to that surface overnight. Get real!!!!!! Even the pads that have abrasive strip will not correct the surface of any rotor that has thousands of miles of wear on it. Hot spots in the rotor is another entire issue, they become slick spots because they are harder
Brembo's are so abrasive to the rotor its getting resurfaced with each application, thus all the dust
Last edited by Jim Barker; 04-30-2019 at 04:42 PM.
... a small percentage of power stop pads are either defective or were installed incorrectly. So...? Even if you just look at this thread, the vast majority of power stop users have zero complaints, and we paid 1/4 the price you paid. Just saying.
The reason I question the complaints is because I personally know about 20 people who are using or have used power stops and none of them experienced the issues …..
The "browning" is a QA issue and obviously only affects a small percentage of users.
The cold pad performance is a design issue. LOOK AT THE DATA POWERSTOP PUBLISHES. Some folks don't know enough to look or have 3 1/2 years experience to know the difference when they discover the problem. As I quote, others have experienced the issue with cold pads: ".. I was driving home, I was like "WTF's going on here...I'm gonna end up rear ending somebody."
Guess some folks don't want to look at what published 1500F max temp means and how to extrapolate min temps from other data or just don't want to understand.
Here are some even "fancier graphics" I have made for two of the ~25 other PDF's I have made and post that are none product related! I do it to "help forum folks like posting this brake pad info." Something I do for fun!
The "browning" is a QA issue and obviously only affects a small percentage of users.
The cold pad performance is a design issue. LOOK AT THE DATA POWERSTOP PUBLISHES. Some folks don't know enough to look or have 3 1/2 years experience to know the difference when they discover the problem. As I quote, others have experienced the issue with cold pads: ".. I was driving home, I was like "WTF's going on here...I'm gonna end up rear ending somebody."
Guess some folks don't want to look at what published 1500F max temp means and how to extrapolate min temps from other data or just don't want to understand.
Here are some even "fancier graphics" I have made for two of the ~25 other PDF's I have made and post that are none product related! I do it to "help forum folks like posting this brake pad info." Something I do for fun!
And that's about as useful as your other graphic...
And that's about as useful as your other graphic...
Perhaps you don't have a jack or every want a one button method to change the bass level. Don't expect you to download the PDF's but they both have detailed "How To's.
if this doesn’t convince you I don’t know what will.
These two posters could never be convinced! They obviously bought the pads and are happy! Great. That is the same brown I have in my groves after 900 miles! Used a Dremel tool and several wire brushes to remove it after I tossed the PowerStop pads. Not for that reason but because of the inferior cold pad performance compared to the OEM and Carbotech pads!
They don't underhand they keep this Thread going and now 2100 folks have visited versus a few hundred when I was ready not to post and it would go away. That was until someone said the Wreaker3 brown rotors were BS! Could not let others believe that foolish post! I don't quite when I know I'm right!
These two posters could never be convinced! They obviously bought the pads and are happy! Great. That is the same brown I have in my groves after 900 miles! Used a Dremel tool and several wire brushes to remove it after I tossed the PowerStop pads. Not for that reason but because of the inferior cold pad performance compared to the OEM and Carbotech pads!
They don't underhand they keep this Thread going and now 2100 folks have visited versus a few hundred when I was ready not to post and it would go away. That was until someone said the Wreaker3 brown rotors were BS! Could not let others believe that foolish post! I don't quite when I know I'm right!
Dude, you're struggling to form intelligible sentences much less a strong argument... Maybe you should 'quite'.... or maybe I just don't 'underhand'...
if this doesn’t convince you I don’t know what will.
Someone I don't know posts a picture without me knowing if its rotors that have been hit with powerstops, or if this is even your car, and that should convince me?
Sorry... lol.
I'll be convinced when I meet someone in person that has had this issue, because like I said, I know at least 20 people who use or have used power stops without this issue. And as others have mentioned, that sure looks like it could be the rust that forms when these rotors sit for a while. If it isn't and it was being caused by power stops, then I wouldn't be happy either, but I've never seen anything like that in person.
Lets assume you are using power stops and this is an issue - have you tried getting replacements sent to you? Maybe you got a defective set? I'd try that before I paid four times as much for another set of pads, especially when I see the vast majority of power stop users have no complaints whatsoever.
GM ships out defective corvettes all the time, does that make them a crappy car overall? I guess using Jerry logic the only solution is to get rid of our our vettes and get us some other car that costs 4x as much (even if in reality there is no real performance difference)...
04-29-2019, 05:32 PM
With no proof just homemade "data".
