Go Back  CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion > C7 Corvette > C7 Tech/Performance
Reload this Page >

NPP Reverse-Engineered - Full Open/Close, Non-Factory-NPP Retrofit

C7 Tech/Performance Corvette Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine, Tech Topics, Basic Tech, Maintenance, How to Remove & Replace
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

NPP Reverse-Engineered - Full Open/Close, Non-Factory-NPP Retrofit

 
Old 05-29-2015, 08:17 PM
  #41  
SBC_and_a_stick
CF Senior Member
 
SBC_and_a_stick's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2012
Location: North California
Posts: 4,639
Thanked 495 Times in 280 Posts
Default

Laguna Seca here I come!

Brilliant work. I'll be following this closely. I can test one against Laguna's 90db or 92db meter and report back. I'm definitely in for a fully built one when it's ready. Sign me up.
SBC_and_a_stick is offline  
Old 05-30-2015, 04:04 AM
  #42  
Theta
Tech Contributor
Thread Starter
 
Theta's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2006
Location: Saint Louis MO
Posts: 4,761
Thanks: 0
Thanked 158 Times in 87 Posts
St. Jude Donor '14-'15
Default

Well, this took the better part of two days, and I'm working out the Solidworks on it right now, but here's the absolute smallest package that can remain thru-hole - meet the v1.7 Micro.

This took some fun thinking and a sketch pad and calculator for ensuring tolerances.

Not sure this will be the final production variant, as it's very small (2.1" x 1.7" - an overall reduction of 62% from the original design, and an additional 30% smaller from the last 'mini' version). However, I wanted to prove it could be done in a small package. With a little improvisation, I was able to keep the TO-220 1.5A instead of moving back to a TO-92 100mA. The TO-92 still has enough to drive the op-amps, but has little margin for error (or transient spikes, etc).

Too bad that at the small production runs we're looking at, it doesn't matter a bit what size these are. For a company that wanted to pump out a few hundred thousand of these designs, I'd be the man at the moment from a cost-savings perspective.


Last edited by Theta; 05-30-2015 at 04:49 AM.
Theta is offline  
Old 05-30-2015, 10:38 AM
  #43  
scottsh
CF Senior Member
 
scottsh's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2015
Location: Spring TX
Posts: 531
Thanked 35 Times in 26 Posts
Default

Looking real good - and I'm glad to see you put 'no data or voltage' on the USB connector because you know somebody would plug that into a power adapter or PC before installation thinking it was used to program it or something.
scottsh is offline  
Old 05-31-2015, 12:29 PM
  #44  
Cajun @ Edgyvette
Supporting Vendor
 
Cajun @ Edgyvette's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2003
Location: Tampa Florda
Posts: 18,042
Thanked 236 Times in 203 Posts
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12'-'13-'14-'15
Default great work

That is awesome. All that work to benefit other owners and then ask nothing for yourself......only to help others less fortunate. Very rare in this world. Thank you
Cajun @ Edgyvette is offline  
Old 05-31-2015, 03:43 PM
  #45  
Sgoochds650
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Feb 2014
Location: Hendersonville Tn
Posts: 126
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

Great work. I feel like I should have stayed in school after reading just the opening comment to this post. Lol!

You are huge asset to the community.
Sgoochds650 is offline  
Old 05-31-2015, 04:13 PM
  #46  
Theta
Tech Contributor
Thread Starter
 
Theta's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2006
Location: Saint Louis MO
Posts: 4,761
Thanks: 0
Thanked 158 Times in 87 Posts
St. Jude Donor '14-'15
Default

Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
That is awesome. All that work to benefit other owners and then ask nothing for yourself......only to help others less fortunate. Very rare in this world. Thank you
Thanks for the kind words. I'm certainly no saint, but when I started thinking about taking on this project, it seemed that it was very much rooted in 'where there's a will, there's a way'. I thought that was really the perfect sentiment for a project to specifically benefit sick kids (in this case, St. Jude's) who have the will to beat the odds.

I came to find out a few months after my grandfather had passed that he was extremely active in St. Jude's fundraising, donation, etc. Ever since then, I've tried to continue that where I can.

On Thursday, we lost my grandmother, who was also an active supporter. We've asked that the normal sympathies instead be replaced by donations to St. Jude's. So, you can see that this has a very personal attachment to me - now, even more so.

I've been rather absent from the forums for the last several days due to arrangements, travel, etc. In my spare time, and to keep my mind busy, I've continued to work on different revisions (the Micro is very much a reality now) and the 3D models for those.

Should be ordering final parts for everything this week, and have many of these out there within the coming weeks/months.
Theta is offline  
Old 06-01-2015, 07:12 PM
  #47  
b1adesofcha0s
CF Senior Member
 
b1adesofcha0s's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2015
Location: MD
Posts: 172
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Wow, this is some great work you've done here! Thanks!

Could this be used to add NPP functionality to an aftermarket exhaust that is not compatible with NPP? I was looking at the Corsa Extreme exhaust as an option for my future C7, but the lack of NPP could be a deal breaker on the Corsa for me. Would be awesome if I could use this kit of yours to add the NPP functionality to the Corsa.
b1adesofcha0s is offline  
Old 06-01-2015, 09:56 PM
  #48  
FYREANT
I'm Batman..
Support Corvetteforum!
 
FYREANT's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2014
Location: Lehigh Acres FL
Posts: 5,737
Thanked 746 Times in 482 Posts
Tech Contributor
Default

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s View Post
Wow, this is some great work you've done here! Thanks!

Could this be used to add NPP functionality to an aftermarket exhaust that is not compatible with NPP? I was looking at the Corsa Extreme exhaust as an option for my future C7, but the lack of NPP could be a deal breaker on the Corsa for me. Would be awesome if I could use this kit of yours to add the NPP functionality to the Corsa.
I believe the Corsa was designed to have the piping cut so the NPP valves are removed completely. Though, you may be able to get around that. As for you question in specific, the electronics Theta is working on will make it possible
FYREANT is offline  
Old 06-01-2015, 10:03 PM
  #49  
Old Yellow
CF Senior Member
 
Old Yellow's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2010
Location: Freedom PA
Posts: 600
Thanked 45 Times in 23 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s View Post
Could this be used to add NPP functionality to an aftermarket exhaust that is not compatible with NPP? I was looking at the Corsa Extreme exhaust as an option for my future C7, but the lack of NPP could be a deal breaker on the Corsa for me. Would be awesome if I could use this kit of yours to add the NPP functionality to the Corsa.
No for Corsa Extreme.

You have to use mufflers that have a dual pass mode that utilize the factory NPP electric actuators.

Ed
Old Yellow is offline  
Old 06-01-2015, 10:08 PM
  #50  
scottsh
CF Senior Member
 
scottsh's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2015
Location: Spring TX
Posts: 531
Thanked 35 Times in 26 Posts
Default

Edit: whoops I misunderstood - Old Yellow is correct in that you can't use the NPP valves with a non-NPP muffler system.

Last edited by scottsh; 06-01-2015 at 10:11 PM.
scottsh is offline  
Old 06-01-2015, 11:39 PM
  #51  
b1adesofcha0s
CF Senior Member
 
b1adesofcha0s's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2015
Location: MD
Posts: 172
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Ah well, that's a bit disappointing. Love the sound of the Corsa, just wish I could keep the NPP functionality with it.
b1adesofcha0s is offline  
Old 06-02-2015, 12:53 AM
  #52  
Theta
Tech Contributor
Thread Starter
 
Theta's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2006
Location: Saint Louis MO
Posts: 4,761
Thanks: 0
Thanked 158 Times in 87 Posts
St. Jude Donor '14-'15
Default

Thanks for answering that, guys. Been at the wake all day.

Speaking for all exhaust types, assuming you wanted to cobble together 'brand-X' dual outlet mufflers with the factory spring-loaded butterflies (which are not sold alone - you'd have to cut apart an exhaust) on one side, this would make it possible. However, that's an awful lot of work. Corsa is out due to the single outlet.
Theta is offline  
Old 06-02-2015, 09:18 AM
  #53  
scottsh
CF Senior Member
 
scottsh's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2015
Location: Spring TX
Posts: 531
Thanked 35 Times in 26 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s View Post
Ah well, that's a bit disappointing. Love the sound of the Corsa, just wish I could keep the NPP functionality with it.
Well, Theta also said:

Originally Posted by Theta
There are a few commercial pieces arriving soon by a large exhaust company, but they work by way of dealing with the ESM menu and the CCM... Still not an instant override, and no way to force close the valves like this does.
That implies he is aware of an aftermarket company preparing a solution with valves that work with the car's computer like NPP does. I'm guessing that if they make this, they will make dual-path mufflers to go with it.
scottsh is offline  
Old 06-02-2015, 09:56 AM
  #54  
b1adesofcha0s
CF Senior Member
 
b1adesofcha0s's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2015
Location: MD
Posts: 172
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Theta View Post
Thanks for answering that, guys. Been at the wake all day.

Speaking for all exhaust types, assuming you wanted to cobble together 'brand-X' dual outlet mufflers with the factory spring-loaded butterflies (which are not sold alone - you'd have to cut apart an exhaust) on one side, this would make it possible. However, that's an awful lot of work. Corsa is out due to the single outlet.
Yeah that definitely seems like more work than I'd want to do for this. Think I may just get the Corsa anyway. If it gets too loud I can always sell it and get a different exhaust. Also planning on doing the Corsa X pipe and ARH mid length headers and it's really at that point where I'd be worried about it being too loud all the time.
b1adesofcha0s is offline  
Old 06-02-2015, 08:35 PM
  #55  
Theta
Tech Contributor
Thread Starter
 
Theta's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2006
Location: Saint Louis MO
Posts: 4,761
Thanks: 0
Thanked 158 Times in 87 Posts
St. Jude Donor '14-'15
Default

Originally Posted by scottsh View Post
That implies he is aware of an aftermarket company preparing a solution with valves that work with the car's computer like NPP does. I'm guessing that if they make this, they will make dual-path mufflers to go with it.
NDA is lifted as of June 1 - I'll assume someone has or will upload pictures of both systems, but the brand in question was Akrapovic.

They have also developed a kit to add valves to a non-NPP car, but do so at a computer-controlled level. Still different than this, and different strokes for different folks. I admire the work they've done to get in through the other door (which isn't easy, let me tell you).

What this still allows for (and was originally created for) is NPP cars to force-close the valves on a track. The nice little byproduct was that it also made retrofits possible by simply wiring the new valves.

As I've been able to source the correct connectors, I'm going to assume they were able to do the same. So, that's good for anybody looking to add NPP valves using either method.

I don't consider it competition, as this is still a DIY-style product/project. The charity aspect is great, but even if you were dead-set against the idea, you can buy all the parts required and build the circuit yourself in a few hours. Their product will surely be much more polished, integrated, and professional than this - but, they are still providing very different approaches.

We've finished up with the final memorial and burial today, so I'm back to work (and back to posting as usual).
Theta is offline  
Old 06-02-2015, 08:50 PM
  #56  
SBC_and_a_stick
CF Senior Member
 
SBC_and_a_stick's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2012
Location: North California
Posts: 4,639
Thanked 495 Times in 280 Posts
Default

I didn't see anywhere in the Akrapovic papers that it can keep the valves closed at all RPMs. I think Theta is the only one working on something like this.
SBC_and_a_stick is offline  
Old 06-02-2015, 08:54 PM
  #57  
Theta
Tech Contributor
Thread Starter
 
Theta's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2006
Location: Saint Louis MO
Posts: 4,761
Thanks: 0
Thanked 158 Times in 87 Posts
St. Jude Donor '14-'15
Default

That's correct. Without making any wide assumptions here, as none of us have seen the product, I believe it will be similar to Armytrix - however, I believe they have actually gotten into the BCM to allow for a TRUE touchscreen conversion. While that's GREAT news, it doesn't change any of our issues with wanting to force them open, closed, etc. Can they add that in? Perhaps - we simply don't know yet. However, they do have some neat tricks for speed sensing, etc.

Anyway, this isn't in that league - this is just a full-control circuit to interact at the base level. Many of us here (myself obviously included) prefer to have low-level control. The valve speed from the switch actuation is less than 200ms. I like that sort of instant-on/off.

The C7 fuse switch DIY mod has become pretty popular from what I've been hearing, simply because it's cheap and easy. Glad to hear it, too! The goal of both of these projects was to make an affordable solution to a rather annoying problem.
Theta is offline  
Old 06-02-2015, 10:06 PM
  #58  
scottsh
CF Senior Member
 
scottsh's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2015
Location: Spring TX
Posts: 531
Thanked 35 Times in 26 Posts
Default

Just passing this along: https://www.akrapovic.com/#!/car/products?brandId=21

Looks like they have a source for the GM actuators, built a tiny control module (which I would love to see the inside of!) and hook into 2 lines from the CCM. I agree its impressive to reverse engineer that.
scottsh is offline  
Old 06-02-2015, 10:12 PM
  #59  
Theta
Tech Contributor
Thread Starter
 
Theta's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2006
Location: Saint Louis MO
Posts: 4,761
Thanks: 0
Thanked 158 Times in 87 Posts
St. Jude Donor '14-'15
Default

The GM actuators are available from the factory, the connectors are proprietary, but available from TE in bulk (I'm staring at a box of them here), and there is only a single wire needed to be tapped (green with a violet stripe on the left CCM harness).

Again, while I'm not sure what exactly the product entails, that reverse-engineering was posted openly by... well, me. When you say you'd like to peek inside, you have all of the schematics in front of you right here.

However, I believe there is more to theirs than this - they are claiming support to interface with the main touchscreen and ESM settings. That is well beyond the scope of this project, which uses direct signaling (no CANBUS interaction). I'm sure they have far better engineers on their team than myself.

Removed that last part - I see in our kit we have the new circuit info. Looking now.
.

Last edited by Theta; 06-02-2015 at 10:22 PM.
Theta is offline  
Old 06-02-2015, 10:27 PM
  #60  
Theta
Tech Contributor
Thread Starter
 
Theta's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2006
Location: Saint Louis MO
Posts: 4,761
Thanks: 0
Thanked 158 Times in 87 Posts
St. Jude Donor '14-'15
Default

Actually, that's a novel idea! I knew they were using the CANBUS to dictate the operation instead of manual control, but this makes things much clearer.

Kudos to that design team - I didn't want to attack the CANBUS, simply because the people that approached me to create this mod were looking to do something that couldn't be done via that method (force-close/force-open the valves).

Neat stuff - always different ways to skin a cat. I'm sure there will be much discussion about that once it hits the market. Each product just has its own niche.
Theta is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: NPP Reverse-Engineered - Full Open/Close, Non-Factory-NPP Retrofit


Sponsored Ads
Vendor Directory

Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: