Z51 with mods vs. Z06 for track use-need help
12-03-2015, 08:16 AM
#22
Former Vendor
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St. Jude Donor '13
What mods did you see the most difference in the handling of your car. I did Sebring in a rental C7 in October and even with it being my first time out I could tell it was all about the driver. But I can only get so much better based on track time. In my mind I would like to set up the car for the best it can be and still be driven around town. I don't care if it's a little loud, but I'm not gutting the interior or anything like that.
Was this event your very first time out on Sebring in any car or just the C7. We spend at least 24 weekends a year at Sebring between SCCA, NASA, Chin Motorsports and the other HPDE events. We provide the track support for Chin Motorsports at all there Sebring events. We maintain countless C5/C6/C7 that run at Sebring.
You don't need a supercharger on your C7. The capabilites of that vehicle in stock condition are most likely far advanced to your skill set. For road race track events the current C7 would be a better choice with the heat soak issues that currently plaque the C7 ZO6 especially here in Florida.
If your going to continue to do HPDE events with the car then the very FIRST MOD to your car needs to be a Harness bar and harnesses (they will make you go faster) Upgrade the stock brake fluid in the car to a Racing Fluid we use only Motul 600 in all our cars that run Sebring. As your skill set improves you will out drive the stock braking system and will need to upgrade the front calipers and rotors (the weak point on the C7) we have seen it many many times. Upgrade your tires and again as your skill set improves upgrade to slicks. Horsepower isn't your first requirement and remember we make a living selling HP products. Call us we can walk you threw the steps needed to track your car at Sebring or any other track.
Last edited by Xplosive Performance; 12-03-2015 at 08:20 AM.
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12-03-2015, 03:57 PM
#24
Drifting
Z51 M7 PDR. Long tubes, Cam, x-pipe, CNC heads, Wheels and tires(hoosier's are my flavor), nice forged wheels, Z06 fan, Z06 Grille, T-1 suspension, and a radiator upgrade. AP Racing big brake kit, harness bar and harness, and a nice Sabelt carbon fiber seat. Tune and align for a good time.
That's the setup I want.
That's the setup I want.
Last edited by AUTO_X_AL; 12-04-2015 at 07:00 AM.
12-04-2015, 02:48 PM
#25
Instructor
Thread Starter
This was first time out to Sebring (or any track or autocrosss type event) and first time in C7. Picked it up from rental agency and drove down to Sebring. That was about all the time I had in the car before tracking it. I had a 2006 C6 Z51 for a year or so, so I did have SOME kind of Corvette experience. We went out with NASA (great experience) and I will have to check out the other groups.
I agree the car will have a while before I could out-drive it stock. I just like to think ahead and get set up for the future. It's not everyday your wife says "get which ever one you want". Knowing that I will be doing some kind of upgrades to either of them in the future. I will definitely be getting with you. I LOVED Sebring. Can't wait to go again in my own car. The rental was an Atuomatic (no options) and brakes failed almost completely going into the hairpin once and then wouldn't cool back down and the transmission just kept overheating after 4 laps on most sessions. But it was still a blast.
I agree the car will have a while before I could out-drive it stock. I just like to think ahead and get set up for the future. It's not everyday your wife says "get which ever one you want". Knowing that I will be doing some kind of upgrades to either of them in the future. I will definitely be getting with you. I LOVED Sebring. Can't wait to go again in my own car. The rental was an Atuomatic (no options) and brakes failed almost completely going into the hairpin once and then wouldn't cool back down and the transmission just kept overheating after 4 laps on most sessions. But it was still a blast.
12-04-2015, 03:56 PM
#26
Former Vendor
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St. Jude Donor '13
This was first time out to Sebring (or any track or autocrosss type event) and first time in C7. Picked it up from rental agency and drove down to Sebring. That was about all the time I had in the car before tracking it. I had a 2006 C6 Z51 for a year or so, so I did have SOME kind of Corvette experience. We went out with NASA (great experience) and I will have to check out the other groups.
I agree the car will have a while before I could out-drive it stock. I just like to think ahead and get set up for the future. It's not everyday your wife says "get which ever one you want". Knowing that I will be doing some kind of upgrades to either of them in the future. I will definitely be getting with you. I LOVED Sebring. Can't wait to go again in my own car. The rental was an Atuomatic (no options) and brakes failed almost completely going into the hairpin once and then wouldn't cool back down and the transmission just kept overheating after 4 laps on most sessions. But it was still a blast.
I agree the car will have a while before I could out-drive it stock. I just like to think ahead and get set up for the future. It's not everyday your wife says "get which ever one you want". Knowing that I will be doing some kind of upgrades to either of them in the future. I will definitely be getting with you. I LOVED Sebring. Can't wait to go again in my own car. The rental was an Atuomatic (no options) and brakes failed almost completely going into the hairpin once and then wouldn't cool back down and the transmission just kept overheating after 4 laps on most sessions. But it was still a blast.
12-04-2015, 05:16 PM
#27
Drifting
I bought an LT1 out the door for $53k and did about $10k worth of mods, including a cam, CAI, sway bars, radiator and BBK.
I wanted to stay NA for the track and have not been dissapointed, I knew I didn't want a roots blower for the track.
Spend less on options and more on go fast parts and you'll have a great track car.
I love mine
Also any supercharger is going to add tremendous heat to the car, you can overcome much of it, but I have seen many supercharged cars that can't make it through a 20 minutes session, and I would argue a CF supercharger is actually a better supercharger for the track than a roots charger, primarily because it is a giant heat sync sitting right on top of your motor. A CF sits in front of the motor and has a more linear feel like the motor itself.
I wanted to stay NA for the track and have not been dissapointed, I knew I didn't want a roots blower for the track.
Spend less on options and more on go fast parts and you'll have a great track car.
I love mine
Also any supercharger is going to add tremendous heat to the car, you can overcome much of it, but I have seen many supercharged cars that can't make it through a 20 minutes session, and I would argue a CF supercharger is actually a better supercharger for the track than a roots charger, primarily because it is a giant heat sync sitting right on top of your motor. A CF sits in front of the motor and has a more linear feel like the motor itself.
Plus, can you really push a Z51 to it's limits?
I know I sure as hell can't.
Last edited by Newton06; 12-04-2015 at 05:17 PM.
12-04-2015, 06:58 PM
#28
having done a lot of track events Porsche 911, Cayman S and full on Boxster based 3.2L race car and wanting to try something different on the track I selected the Z51 M7 over the Z06 based on concern about overheating.
for me my list to track the car - 18" rims for better choice of track oriented rubber, track alignment (need the negative a camber else outside of tire will cord in 1 day), 15w-50 oil, brake fluid flush to something like Motul600, brake cooling rings. Then safety - stuff. Some very experienced people I know claim new cars with all the airbags are very effective. I stay away from the HP stuff as it costs a lot and really makes very little difference until you know how to drive. Then usually corner balance, suspension (coil over, heavier sway bars, lowering) and then to brake upgrades.
my experience you can spend a lot of money racing and then have problems with the car and added expenses (a set of slicks $1800-2500 every weekend) and have less fun. I will do time attack events and limit the mods on the z51.
for me my list to track the car - 18" rims for better choice of track oriented rubber, track alignment (need the negative a camber else outside of tire will cord in 1 day), 15w-50 oil, brake fluid flush to something like Motul600, brake cooling rings. Then safety - stuff. Some very experienced people I know claim new cars with all the airbags are very effective. I stay away from the HP stuff as it costs a lot and really makes very little difference until you know how to drive. Then usually corner balance, suspension (coil over, heavier sway bars, lowering) and then to brake upgrades.
my experience you can spend a lot of money racing and then have problems with the car and added expenses (a set of slicks $1800-2500 every weekend) and have less fun. I will do time attack events and limit the mods on the z51.
12-04-2015, 09:58 PM
#29
4th Gear
Member Since: Dec 2015
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No
Don't waste your money buy a god damn zo6 QUOTE=2Laidback;1591006569]Ok,
So I have to figure out if the Z06 will make a better track car for the approx $30k more than a Z51 with mods. After mods the price difference would be close to $18k-$20k.
If I get the Z51 and add coilovers and a supercharger and maybe exhaust is that going to handle better than the Z06? If the coilovers are good enough then I wouldn't need to worry about getting the Magnetic Selective Ride Suspension, right? I'm really just trying to get the best bang for the buck. I don't plan on using it only for track use but the mods I do add will still keep it street-able.
Opinions of those who have driven both would be most helpful.[/QUOTE]
So I have to figure out if the Z06 will make a better track car for the approx $30k more than a Z51 with mods. After mods the price difference would be close to $18k-$20k.
If I get the Z51 and add coilovers and a supercharger and maybe exhaust is that going to handle better than the Z06? If the coilovers are good enough then I wouldn't need to worry about getting the Magnetic Selective Ride Suspension, right? I'm really just trying to get the best bang for the buck. I don't plan on using it only for track use but the mods I do add will still keep it street-able.
Opinions of those who have driven both would be most helpful.[/QUOTE]
12-04-2015, 10:04 PM
#30
Burning Brakes
no supercharger needed, coil overs great, no mag ride if you go coilovers...plus Mag ride is 1795.00 option, so 3500 coilovers really only cost about 1700.00 in difference
Last edited by sycraft; 12-04-2015 at 10:19 PM.
12-04-2015, 10:16 PM
#31
Instructor
Thread Starter
Sounds good let me know, for track events like HPDE you are really better off with the C7 Z51 maybe not as fast but a whole lot more reliable. When you get her lets us know we can take care of all your track needs and safety items. Next weekend 12/12-12/13 we will be at Sebring with Chin Motorsports have a number of customer cars there and we povide the track support. If you can make it on Saturday i can arrange for one of our customers who is an instructor to take you for a ride in his C7/Z51. He is stock with the exception of a Brembo Big brake kit we did for him, Hoosiers, and harnessess. You'll have fun.
We just got back from a week cruise (I know, rough life) and not sure if I can swing it this weekend but I will sure try to make it happen. Looks like Sunday would be the day if it works out.
12-04-2015, 10:17 PM
#32
Instructor
Thread Starter
12-05-2015, 10:49 AM
#34
Drifting
I would like to caution you to use wheels and tires that have a similar stagger to the factory. These aren't exact but you'll get the idea. The factory tires are something like 25.7 front O.D. And 26.4 rear O.D.. The factory computer uses this for ABS modulation. Helping to turn the car while trail braking etc. That said, I wouldn't want to veer very far from the 0.7-0.8 stagger that comes from the factory unless you are tuning the abs or replacing it. You don't want to lose ABS effectiveness. This is coming from a rock solid source.
When everyone talks about running 18's all around and different tires, just bear in mind that you want to keep a 0.7-0.8 O.D. Stagger front/back to maintain that abs braking effectiveness.
Just something to consider as it was pointed out to me just prior to me ordering tires and making a mistake.
When everyone talks about running 18's all around and different tires, just bear in mind that you want to keep a 0.7-0.8 O.D. Stagger front/back to maintain that abs braking effectiveness.
Just something to consider as it was pointed out to me just prior to me ordering tires and making a mistake.
12-05-2015, 11:00 AM
#35
Instructor
I would like to caution you to use wheels and tires that have a similar stagger to the factory. These aren't exact but you'll get the idea. The factory tires are something like 25.7 front O.D. And 26.4 rear O.D.. The factory computer uses this for ABS modulation. Helping to turn the car while trail braking etc. That said, I wouldn't want to veer very far from the 0.7-0.8 stagger that comes from the factory unless you are tuning the abs or replacing it. You don't want to lose ABS effectiveness. This is coming from a rock solid source.
When everyone talks about running 18's all around and different tires, just bear in mind that you want to keep a 0.7-0.8 O.D. Stagger front/back to maintain that abs braking effectiveness.
Just something to consider as it was pointed out to me just prior to me ordering tires and making a mistake.
When everyone talks about running 18's all around and different tires, just bear in mind that you want to keep a 0.7-0.8 O.D. Stagger front/back to maintain that abs braking effectiveness.
Just something to consider as it was pointed out to me just prior to me ordering tires and making a mistake.
12-06-2015, 04:26 PM
#36
Drifting
Honestly, if I were you I would buy the Ron Fellows Edition Z51. This car has been set up to track and track in hot weather. If you really want to track your car more than just a couple of times per year, this is the way I would go. I track my Z51 and it is a pain in the butt pulling the wheels, putting on the cooling rings with stainless wire, putting the wheels back on and then taking everything back off again to take the rings off. PITA! The RF Edition has the Z06 brakes, suspension and cooling. This is what the Z51 really should have been.
12-06-2015, 08:14 PM
#37
Drifting
Originally Posted by OldJedi
Honestly, if I were you I would buy the Ron Fellows Edition Z51. This car has been set up to track and track in hot weather. If you really want to track your car more than just a couple of times per year, this is the way I would go. I track my Z51 and it is a pain in the butt pulling the wheels, putting on the cooling rings with stainless wire, putting the wheels back on and then taking everything back off again to take the rings off. PITA! The RF Edition has the Z06 brakes, suspension and cooling. This is what the Z51 really should have been.
It's not that hard or anywhere near that expensive to setup a stingray to track. If you can burn the coin, cool. My pragmatic side has reservations about throwing away that kind of money. Especially when I could build it better with enough left over to buy a new trailer to haul it to the track with.
Last edited by AUTO_X_AL; 12-06-2015 at 08:25 PM.
12-06-2015, 08:24 PM
#38
Drifting
Originally Posted by NateDieselF4i
What set up did you go with brah?
For r compounds we did 295/18's in the front and 315/19's in CCW C10's in a Hoosier A6. That setup did tend to pick up a little bit of understeer from the center of the corner off but overall, was quite good.
A stingray isn't too many mods from being an excellent track car.
The AP/ESSEX brakes a way better than steel Z06 six Pistons. They're comparable from a cost standpoint so I would go that route. You can put the auxiliary cooler/radiator on the M7 cars and you are not to far off from the new CC cars. $117000 is a lot of money to spend on something that's getting Z06 parts bin upgrades. Aside from the T1 suspension at least.
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12-07-2015, 03:31 PM
#40
Safety Car
I love how everyone "thinks" they need more power.
A stock C7 Z51 is probably more car then 98% of users on this forum can push to its full limit during HPDE including myself.
Brakes, cooling, and safety items should be your focus. Just my .03 cents
A stock C7 Z51 is probably more car then 98% of users on this forum can push to its full limit during HPDE including myself.
Brakes, cooling, and safety items should be your focus. Just my .03 cents