Spun a rod bearing after upgrades...Why?
12-07-2015, 06:36 PM
#1
Heel & Toe
Thread Starter
Spun a rod bearing after upgrades...Why?
So first I would like to tell you what was installed and follow in that I will post some pics of what happened... And lastly.... Hopefully someone can explain maybe why this happened.
I installed TSP polished heads, TSP stage 3 cam, dod delete kit, ls7 lifters,
long tube headers, x pipe and afe cai. It was tuned and never got to put her back on the dyno.
It was ten days following and a squealing sound was heard while driving her at like a normal car. (Not getting on it) I had the oil changed and no metal was discovered, following that a "ticking" sound was heard at 2500 rpms and got louder at higher rpms. I towed it back to where I live (400 miles) and now is tore apart and all the bearings where starting to grind part and one actually spun. Keep in mind this was only 10 days following the install and after s 400 trip with some daily driving before and following the trip.
So what do you think caused it?
Also... I think it would be dumb to just out it back to stock so I will be upgrading the bottom end in the process.
Just curious what everyone's thoughts are. Thanks in advance.
V/R
Whitebetty
I installed TSP polished heads, TSP stage 3 cam, dod delete kit, ls7 lifters,
long tube headers, x pipe and afe cai. It was tuned and never got to put her back on the dyno.
It was ten days following and a squealing sound was heard while driving her at like a normal car. (Not getting on it) I had the oil changed and no metal was discovered, following that a "ticking" sound was heard at 2500 rpms and got louder at higher rpms. I towed it back to where I live (400 miles) and now is tore apart and all the bearings where starting to grind part and one actually spun. Keep in mind this was only 10 days following the install and after s 400 trip with some daily driving before and following the trip.
So what do you think caused it?
Also... I think it would be dumb to just out it back to stock so I will be upgrading the bottom end in the process.
Just curious what everyone's thoughts are. Thanks in advance.
V/R
Whitebetty
12-07-2015, 08:13 PM
#2
Team Owner
Member Since: Jan 2007
Location: cookeville tennessee
Posts: 28,846
Received 1,762 Likes
on
1,529 Posts
ttt
Something had to get into the bearings some really small piece of metal from something. Check all of your lifters all of them really good man.
I have a 65 vette I got from a member in here he told me motor only had less than 40 miles on it . He told me he would stand behind the motor well he did until it got out from his home.
I put less than 100 miles on it and my bearings looked 10 worse than your does. I broke down the motor took it to a well known engine builder he told me the shop that bored the block didn't clean all the small metal out of the block from that.
Man really look for small metal parts has to be in the oil. Post some more pic,s of the bearings. What does the mains look like.
I have a 65 vette I got from a member in here he told me motor only had less than 40 miles on it . He told me he would stand behind the motor well he did until it got out from his home.
I put less than 100 miles on it and my bearings looked 10 worse than your does. I broke down the motor took it to a well known engine builder he told me the shop that bored the block didn't clean all the small metal out of the block from that.
Man really look for small metal parts has to be in the oil. Post some more pic,s of the bearings. What does the mains look like.
12-07-2015, 09:27 PM
#4
Heel & Toe
Thread Starter
Something had to get into the bearings some really small piece of metal from something. Check all of your lifters all of them really good man.
I have a 65 vette I got from a member in here he told me motor only had less than 40 miles on it . He told me he would stand behind the motor well he did until it got out from his home.
I put less than 100 miles on it and my bearings looked 10 worse than your does. I broke down the motor took it to a well known engine builder he told me the shop that bored the block didn't clean all the small metal out of the block from that.
Man really look for small metal parts has to be in the oil. Post some more pic,s of the bearings. What does the mains look like.
I have a 65 vette I got from a member in here he told me motor only had less than 40 miles on it . He told me he would stand behind the motor well he did until it got out from his home.
I put less than 100 miles on it and my bearings looked 10 worse than your does. I broke down the motor took it to a well known engine builder he told me the shop that bored the block didn't clean all the small metal out of the block from that.
Man really look for small metal parts has to be in the oil. Post some more pic,s of the bearings. What does the mains look like.
So, I was kinda thinking maybe the new camshaft had some small metal flakes from the break in period which lead to the rod bearings. Thanks for the response. I'm building the bottom end since its in pieces now.
12-07-2015, 09:28 PM
#5
Heel & Toe
Thread Starter
12-07-2015, 09:40 PM
#6
Ya reason why you would have a failure after a cam swap. is most likely install error. Which is why i always have shops do my cam swaps.
Last edited by MikeLsx; 12-07-2015 at 09:41 PM.
12-07-2015, 10:02 PM
#7
Heel & Toe
Thread Starter
12-07-2015, 10:11 PM
#9
Priority oiling, usually main bearings then cam bearing. I bet a cam bearing was nicked or damaged upon cam installation. Just a guess, kinda spit balling. Hope you get it figured out
12-07-2015, 10:23 PM
#10
Detonation can hammer the crush out of bearings. Lost crush = spin city.
Look at the bearing halves in the rods that did not spin. The cap side should look better than the rod side if they were getting hammered.
Look at the bearing halves in the rods that did not spin. The cap side should look better than the rod side if they were getting hammered.
The following 2 users liked this post by a striper:
COSPEED2 (12-16-2015),
ratchet80 (12-07-2015)
12-07-2015, 10:33 PM
#11
I'm Batman..
Pro Mechanic
Member Since: Apr 2014
Location: Lehigh Acres FL
Posts: 6,131
Received 908 Likes
on
561 Posts
Tech Contributor
As was previously mentioned, install error would be my guess. Possibly they scratched the cam or bearings casuing a bit more wear than expected. Also, when installing new internals the most critical part of the process is lubrication of the new parts. If the cam was installed dry, and the bearings and cam were not properly coated in assembly lube during reassembly, then it will overwear the parts excessively right of the bat due to heat and friction.
12-07-2015, 10:38 PM
#12
Heel & Toe
Thread Starter
They were all rod side... One gave out and it wouldn't have been long before they all would have. There was a lot of damage done is very little time.
12-07-2015, 10:40 PM
#13
Heel & Toe
Thread Starter
As was previously mentioned, install error would be my guess. Possibly they scratched the cam or bearings casuing a bit more wear than expected. Also, when installing new internals the most critical part of the process is lubrication of the new parts. If the cam was installed dry, and the bearings and cam were not properly coated in assembly lube during reassembly, then it will overwear the parts excessively right of the bat due to heat and friction.
12-07-2015, 11:25 PM
#15
12-08-2015, 08:56 AM
#16
Team Owner
Member Since: Jan 2007
Location: cookeville tennessee
Posts: 28,846
Received 1,762 Likes
on
1,529 Posts
If the cam didn't get run like it was too yes the cam I would say over the lifter. But also more so over the lifters if it didn't get run like 20 mins are so and got the cam metal hot to harden the lobes on it and so of the edges came off.But are SURE I put money it was very small piece's of metal in the bearings did it.
12-08-2015, 08:59 AM
#17
Team Owner
Member Since: Jan 2007
Location: cookeville tennessee
Posts: 28,846
Received 1,762 Likes
on
1,529 Posts
As was previously mentioned, install error would be my guess. Possibly they scratched the cam or bearings casuing a bit more wear than expected. Also, when installing new internals the most critical part of the process is lubrication of the new parts. If the cam was installed dry, and the bearings and cam were not properly coated in assembly lube during reassembly, then it will overwear the parts excessively right of the bat due to heat and friction.
also on this one.
12-08-2015, 01:58 PM
#19
Tech Contributor
I'm reading some of these comments and don't get most of them.
Why change a cam at all if you're going to with a mild cam? The stock cam is a mild cam.
Cam lobes on hydraulic rollers don't have any kind of break-in like the flat tappets do, so I don't get comments about that.
If someone's installing a cam and nicks the bearing or something and the trash falls into the pan, it has to be small enough to get through the screen, then before that trash can enter any bearings, it goes through the filter. Factory tolerances can be very tight and as tight as they are, how big of a piece of trash is going to get through?
If you changed to a heavier weight oil and got the bypass opened from it, then that could get the trash in there. If the oil pump pickup tube or the seal was compromised in any way, that could lower your oil pressure and aerate your oil and cause oil starvation. This would be something I would expect you to notice.
If the bearings got "crushed" I would expect you to be able to put a micrometer across the width and see variances throughout the length of the bearing with the parting lines being narrower than the center on the rod shells.
If the DOD delete got compromised and caused an internal oil leak, I could see that getting it, but any oil starvation from an internal oil leak or aeration, I would expect to see the mains get hit too.
What makes the most sense to me is detonation. If you want to know if it was detonation, send me your spark plugs and I'll look them over, under a microscope and tell you what I see. No charge. Just send them.
PM me if you're interested.
Why change a cam at all if you're going to with a mild cam? The stock cam is a mild cam.
Cam lobes on hydraulic rollers don't have any kind of break-in like the flat tappets do, so I don't get comments about that.
If someone's installing a cam and nicks the bearing or something and the trash falls into the pan, it has to be small enough to get through the screen, then before that trash can enter any bearings, it goes through the filter. Factory tolerances can be very tight and as tight as they are, how big of a piece of trash is going to get through?
If you changed to a heavier weight oil and got the bypass opened from it, then that could get the trash in there. If the oil pump pickup tube or the seal was compromised in any way, that could lower your oil pressure and aerate your oil and cause oil starvation. This would be something I would expect you to notice.
If the bearings got "crushed" I would expect you to be able to put a micrometer across the width and see variances throughout the length of the bearing with the parting lines being narrower than the center on the rod shells.
If the DOD delete got compromised and caused an internal oil leak, I could see that getting it, but any oil starvation from an internal oil leak or aeration, I would expect to see the mains get hit too.
What makes the most sense to me is detonation. If you want to know if it was detonation, send me your spark plugs and I'll look them over, under a microscope and tell you what I see. No charge. Just send them.
PM me if you're interested.
Last edited by BLOWNBLUEZ06; 12-08-2015 at 04:16 PM.
The following users liked this post:
DLC7 (12-16-2015)
12-08-2015, 05:03 PM
#20
I'm reading some of these comments and don't get most of them.
Why change a cam at all if you're going to with a mild cam? The stock cam is a mild cam.
Cam lobes on hydraulic rollers don't have any kind of break-in like the flat tappets do, so I don't get comments about that.
If someone's installing a cam and nicks the bearing or something and the trash falls into the pan, it has to be small enough to get through the screen, then before that trash can enter any bearings, it goes through the filter. Factory tolerances can be very tight and as tight as they are, how big of a piece of trash is going to get through?
If you changed to a heavier weight oil and got the bypass opened from it, then that could get the trash in there. If the oil pump pickup tube or the seal was compromised in any way, that could lower your oil pressure and aerate your oil and cause oil starvation. This would be something I would expect you to notice.
If the bearings got "crushed" I would expect you to be able to put a micrometer across the width and see variances throughout the length of the bearing with the parting lines being narrower than the center on the rod shells.
If the DOD delete got compromised and caused an internal oil leak, I could see that getting it, but any oil starvation from an internal oil leak or aeration, I would expect to see the mains get hit too.
What makes the most sense to me is detonation. If you want to know if it was detonation, send me your spark plugs and I'll look them over, under a microscope and tell you what I see. No charge. Just send them.
PM me if you're interested.
Why change a cam at all if you're going to with a mild cam? The stock cam is a mild cam.
Cam lobes on hydraulic rollers don't have any kind of break-in like the flat tappets do, so I don't get comments about that.
If someone's installing a cam and nicks the bearing or something and the trash falls into the pan, it has to be small enough to get through the screen, then before that trash can enter any bearings, it goes through the filter. Factory tolerances can be very tight and as tight as they are, how big of a piece of trash is going to get through?
If you changed to a heavier weight oil and got the bypass opened from it, then that could get the trash in there. If the oil pump pickup tube or the seal was compromised in any way, that could lower your oil pressure and aerate your oil and cause oil starvation. This would be something I would expect you to notice.
If the bearings got "crushed" I would expect you to be able to put a micrometer across the width and see variances throughout the length of the bearing with the parting lines being narrower than the center on the rod shells.
If the DOD delete got compromised and caused an internal oil leak, I could see that getting it, but any oil starvation from an internal oil leak or aeration, I would expect to see the mains get hit too.
What makes the most sense to me is detonation. If you want to know if it was detonation, send me your spark plugs and I'll look them over, under a microscope and tell you what I see. No charge. Just send them.
PM me if you're interested.
a stage 3 cam is just stupid IMO. puts more stress on valve train. not to mention you will be changing valve springs more often. and like what OP found out, you suffer on the low end.
Last edited by MikeLsx; 12-08-2015 at 05:04 PM.