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'16 Z51 Arctic White track build

Old 06-06-2016, 12:23 PM
  #41  
BaylorCorvette
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When do you think you'll take delivery of the Corvette?
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Old 06-06-2016, 01:17 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by BaylorCorvette View Post
When do you think you'll take delivery of the Corvette?
I need to send my Camaro over first; I plan to do that next weekend, so hopefully very soon!
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Old 06-07-2016, 07:36 AM
  #43  
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I'm still not sure about using a wing vs. helping out the stage 3 spoiler with a functional diffuser; what do you guys think?

I started this thread:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...diffusers.html

Originally Posted by X25 View Post
I've been looking into functional diffusers, since they reduce drag without adding more drag. So far I could only find two:

Difflow C7 rear diffuser ($829 MSRP)
http://www.difflow.com/corvettec7diffuser.html




APR rear diffuser with undertray ($1965 MSRP):
http://shop.aprperformance.com/index...product_id=423


What do you guys think? Is there anyone with any experience with any of these in terms of aerodynamic impact to the car?

Are there any other functional diffusers available?

Last edited by X25; 06-07-2016 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 06-07-2016, 10:22 AM
  #44  
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Funny you should bring this up. I just installed the Stage 3 spoiler a couple days ago. I had every intention of going with the APR version but someone was selling their OEM version for a good price so I ended up buying that. Unfortunately it has about 1/2" of over hang off the back since the Z06 is a wide body. Honestly it doesn't look bad, I know some people want the flush look, which would look better.

No doubt a racing wing is going to be way more functional, so I think it is a matter of how functional do you want it to be & how concerned are you about the looks? I'm not a fan of a huge wing on the C7s, but I've always been function over form so I could have let is slide I suppose.

In terms of underbelly, I was thinking of attempting to fab up some sort of underbelly trey that runs the length of the car, the car is way more flat underneath than the 5th gen Camaros but I'm sure a full length skid plate / underbelly trey would help some.
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Old 06-07-2016, 12:28 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by X25 View Post
I'm still not sure about using a wing vs. helping out the stage 3 spoiler with a functional diffuser; what do you guys think?

I started this thread:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...diffusers.html
APR GTC-500 looks sick

and about the diffuser I remembered there's a manufactor actually sells blades that install to our OEM discffuser

another option is Z06 OEM Spoiler

but the APR one provides more downforce and less drag
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Old 06-07-2016, 12:34 PM
  #46  
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on the other hand, if you want more downforce in the back

o believe you should add a larger spiller in the front

I'm adding a set of Gen V Viper Canards on our corvette w

surprisingly it fits and was tested by customer in wind tunnel

Now APR Developed a specific Canards for the C7

and it looks like the Le Mans race car version which is a bit ugly

and most of the time Canards don't actually generates that much downforce but

is a vortex generator to reduce drag.

Your call
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Old 06-07-2016, 04:06 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by BaylorCorvette View Post
Funny you should bring this up. I just installed the Stage 3 spoiler a couple days ago. I had every intention of going with the APR version but someone was selling their OEM version for a good price so I ended up buying that. Unfortunately it has about 1/2" of over hang off the back since the Z06 is a wide body. Honestly it doesn't look bad, I know some people want the flush look, which would look better.

No doubt a racing wing is going to be way more functional, so I think it is a matter of how functional do you want it to be & how concerned are you about the looks? I'm not a fan of a huge wing on the C7s, but I've always been function over form so I could have let is slide I suppose.

In terms of underbelly, I was thinking of attempting to fab up some sort of underbelly trey that runs the length of the car, the car is way more flat underneath than the 5th gen Camaros but I'm sure a full length skid plate / underbelly trey would help some.
GM decided to not go with Stage 3 spoiler on Grand Sport Z07s, citing that it does not need that much down force, which makes you wonder if a wing would be overkill for us, but I see Miatas and S2000s with wing all the time. The OEM spoiler works best at very high speeds, which I'd rarely go to. The looks of the wing is definitely polarizing. My wife said a very loud and clear "no" to the wing, so she definitely finds it cheesy. It requires drilling the hatch, and its weight will also cause issues on hatch's open/close operation, not to mention the damage it might make in the long run due to all that force being applied. The best way is to install it directly onto the chassis, but that might require butchering the back of the car : (

The APR kit surprisingly has no belly pan, etc., unlike ACS. There are quite a few belly cover pieces available from Z06 parts, etc., which is what I intend to use. I do have the AUX radiator as well, and I don't want to inadvertently block air to that unit.

Originally Posted by KLdy View Post
APR GTC-500 looks sick

and about the diffuser I remembered there's a manufactor actually sells blades that install to our OEM discffuser

another option is Z06 OEM Spoiler

but the APR one provides more downforce and less drag
Is there any data about APR spoiler vs. Z06 OEM spoiler? I'd love to learn more : )

Originally Posted by KLdy View Post
on the other hand, if you want more downforce in the back

o believe you should add a larger spiller in the front

I'm adding a set of Gen V Viper Canards on our corvette w

surprisingly it fits and was tested by customer in wind tunnel

Now APR Developed a specific Canards for the C7

and it looks like the Le Mans race car version which is a bit ugly

and most of the time Canards don't actually generates that much downforce but

is a vortex generator to reduce drag.

Your call
My APR track attack kit already comes with their canards, too. I don't think it's that ugly to be honest.
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Old 06-07-2016, 04:18 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by X25 View Post
GM decided to not go with Stage 3 spoiler on Grand Sport Z07s, citing that it does not need that much down force, which makes you wonder if a wing would be overkill for us, but I see Miatas and S2000s with wing all the time. The OEM spoiler works best at very high speeds, which I'd rarely go to. The looks of the wing is definitely polarizing. My wife said a very loud and clear "no" to the wing, so she definitely finds it cheesy. It requires drilling the hatch, and its weight will also cause issues on hatch's open/close operation, not to mention the damage it might make in the long run due to all that force being applied. The best way is to install it directly onto the chassis, but that might require butchering the back of the car : (

The APR kit surprisingly has no belly pan, etc., unlike ACS. There are quite a few belly cover pieces available from Z06 parts, etc., which is what I intend to use. I do have the AUX radiator as well, and I don't want to inadvertently block air to that unit.


Is there any data about APR spoiler vs. Z06 OEM spoiler? I'd love to learn more : )


My APR track attack kit already comes with their canards, too. I don't think it's that ugly to be honest.
oh

I dont mean the Current one they have on their website

Like the one you have, the one I am talking about are the one that are drilled on the bumper not the ones that worked with the spliter!

They are on sale like now? ish

I have the pictures here

These are the ones that I am talking about
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Old 06-07-2016, 04:22 PM
  #49  
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Himm, looks like something my daughters would break first time they lean on it. The angles are also very mild; I wonder what the thinking process was. Still, if I end up getting the wing, it could be a nice addition. As is, I'm leaning on keeping the APR spoiler, and adding a diffuser like the difflow to the setup.
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Old 06-07-2016, 04:25 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by X25 View Post
Himm, looks like something my daughters would break first time they lean on it. The angles are also very mild; I wonder what the thinking process was. Still, if I end up getting the wing, it could be a nice addition. As is, I'm leaning on keeping the APR spoiler, and adding a diffuser like the difflow to the setup.

Yes this is the exact design for the C7 Race car at Le Mans but I am not sure how well it works on the road car, but many people have different opinion on canards

thats why I prefer the Gen V Viper Canards looks more striking
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Old 06-07-2016, 06:32 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by X25 View Post
GM decided to not go with Stage 3 spoiler on Grand Sport Z07s, citing that it does not need that much down force, which makes you wonder if a wing would be overkill for us, but I see Miatas and S2000s with wing all the time.
Honestly I think that is a load of BS that comes from Corvette marketing as to the rationale to keep the Stage 3 Z06/7 exclusive. A buddy of mine (who is on this forum) set a NASA track record for TT2 class at NOLA in his C7 Z51 and he's using the Stage 3 spoiler (actually it's APR) and stock power levels. So it obviously doesn't take too much top end off the car.

I like the dive planes and prefer that look to the Stage 3 (front) aero on the C7s.

Last edited by BaylorCorvette; 06-07-2016 at 06:33 PM.
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Old 06-08-2016, 12:27 AM
  #52  
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Speculations that can be made:
1- Corvette race teams use a balanced aero system to increase downforce, including rear wing. I understand they may be producing "less" Hp than Z06 (?).
2- Of course rear downforce has to be balanced w/front end downforce, e.g. large splitters, otherwise understeer will occur.
3- Non of the aftermarket parts, including APR wings are tested on the actual make/model car they are sold for. Testing is on a standard race car they have, and then modified to fit various makes and models. Just not economically feasible to wind tunnel test every make and model. Although it is possible some computer finite element modeling could take place.


My understanding of the front canards is to sharpen the diving into turns.


One can consider buying a second trunk lid for track use, that can be replace OEM during track season.


Once I get my GS (if my dealer ever gets his allocation), I was hoping to investigate fabrication of wing arms that mount to underbody somewhere (?), along with mounting a tow hitch for trailering wheels/tires/gears. May be even coming up with a hitch that is stiff enough to support a wing mount...


Personally, I don't care what others thing about the look of my car, as long as I am ok with it, and it produces results.


I would not make a lot of mods all at the same time before venturing to the track. If there are many parts that supposedly improve performance, you will never know if any one part is out of tune/adjustment, etc since the other parts cover up the badly tuned one. Make small steps, tune, move to next step, tune, etc. That way you can focus on tuning a single part for efficiency. Ultimately as you add parts, you still have to go back and re-tune previous parts. With wings, etc, always start at zero angle of attack and slowly make revision and test for best feel.


Best wing would be the one from Corvette "factory-supported" team, which I'm sure is wind tunnel tested.

Last edited by Kamran; 06-08-2016 at 12:29 AM.
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Old 06-08-2016, 12:50 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Kamran View Post
Speculations that can be made:
1- Corvette race teams use a balanced aero system to increase downforce, including rear wing. I understand they may be producing "less" Hp than Z06 (?).
2- Of course rear downforce has to be balanced w/front end downforce, e.g. large splitters, otherwise understeer will occur.
3- Non of the aftermarket parts, including APR wings are tested on the actual make/model car they are sold for. Testing is on a standard race car they have, and then modified to fit various makes and models. Just not economically feasible to wind tunnel test every make and model. Although it is possible some computer finite element modeling could take place.


My understanding of the front canards is to sharpen the diving into turns.


One can consider buying a second trunk lid for track use, that can be replace OEM during track season.


Once I get my GS (if my dealer ever gets his allocation), I was hoping to investigate fabrication of wing arms that mount to underbody somewhere (?), along with mounting a tow hitch for trailering wheels/tires/gears. May be even coming up with a hitch that is stiff enough to support a wing mount...


Personally, I don't care what others thing about the look of my car, as long as I am ok with it, and it produces results.


I would not make a lot of mods all at the same time before venturing to the track. If there are many parts that supposedly improve performance, you will never know if any one part is out of tune/adjustment, etc since the other parts cover up the badly tuned one. Make small steps, tune, move to next step, tune, etc. That way you can focus on tuning a single part for efficiency. Ultimately as you add parts, you still have to go back and re-tune previous parts. With wings, etc, always start at zero angle of attack and slowly make revision and test for best feel.


Best wing would be the one from Corvette "factory-supported" team, which I'm sure is wind tunnel tested.
That is why I am leaning towards the OEM Z06 Wing, and that is not excatly expensive, but the wing is a bit too wide on non-widebody Z51s
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Old 06-08-2016, 12:51 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Kamran View Post
Speculations that can be made:
1- Corvette race teams use a balanced aero system to increase downforce, including rear wing. I understand they may be producing "less" Hp than Z06 (?).
2- Of course rear downforce has to be balanced w/front end downforce, e.g. large splitters, otherwise understeer will occur.
3- Non of the aftermarket parts, including APR wings are tested on the actual make/model car they are sold for. Testing is on a standard race car they have, and then modified to fit various makes and models. Just not economically feasible to wind tunnel test every make and model. Although it is possible some computer finite element modeling could take place.


My understanding of the front canards is to sharpen the diving into turns.


One can consider buying a second trunk lid for track use, that can be replace OEM during track season.


Once I get my GS (if my dealer ever gets his allocation), I was hoping to investigate fabrication of wing arms that mount to underbody somewhere (?), along with mounting a tow hitch for trailering wheels/tires/gears. May be even coming up with a hitch that is stiff enough to support a wing mount...


Personally, I don't care what others thing about the look of my car, as long as I am ok with it, and it produces results.


I would not make a lot of mods all at the same time before venturing to the track. If there are many parts that supposedly improve performance, you will never know if any one part is out of tune/adjustment, etc since the other parts cover up the badly tuned one. Make small steps, tune, move to next step, tune, etc. That way you can focus on tuning a single part for efficiency. Ultimately as you add parts, you still have to go back and re-tune previous parts. With wings, etc, always start at zero angle of attack and slowly make revision and test for best feel.


Best wing would be the one from Corvette "factory-supported" team, which I'm sure is wind tunnel tested.
Good discussion. Some of the mods don't necessarily overlap (like brakes and aero), so I can do them at the same time. I am wondering how the car fares before installing any cooling modes, so I might just try that out first. I'd love to collect some good data, but at the same time, I want this car project finished sooner than later; hopefully I'll strike a good-enough balance.

I just ordered the semi-functional difflow diffuser (possibly one of the very few funcitonal diffusers available for this car), and I'm hoping the diffuser and spoiler can add up to a good, stable backend. Besides, as you also mentioned, too much wing down-force might cause balance issues, and it's not easy to fix the frontend of this car without making it undrivable at the street. One of the nice properties of the diffusers is that it even helps in the center and front down-force / lift reduction.

Another question I'm wondering is how the LG or similar coilovers fare against the T1 shocks. T1 shocks can be had for about $350, which is great, but it also makes me wonder if they're good enough. I've never seen a world-beater suspension at that price range : ) I'm considering using T1 shocks this season, and perhaps switch to a coilver setup during next season to see how they perform.
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Old 06-08-2016, 01:46 AM
  #55  
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Imho suspension is where you want to spend the most money, while keeping the cost in check w/respect to the "value" of the car. It's just silly to spend $7-$10K for suspension on a car that's worth $25K (although those are the cars doing circles around other big Hp cars). Likewise it's relatively acceptable to spend several thousand dollars on a car that's worth $60+. Suspension and tires are the key parts that allow you extract the full potential of the car. As much as you are spending on parts, don't short change yourself, by looking at what's a bargain. It'd be prudent to shoot for something in the upper suspension tier.

Many low Hp cars do much faster lap time than big Hp cars, only because how professionally their suspensions are set up. On a track with 15 corners (The Ridge) you can gain 5 seconds on the straight on a low Hp car, but as long as the low Hp car has the suspension set up correctly to corner faster at 1/2 second (which isn't much) per corner, that's all of a sudden 15 corners X 1/2 sec = 7.5 seconds. All of a sudden the low Hp car is now 2.5 sec faster than the guy who pulls away and disappears on the straights. I think you get more bang for your bucks from your suspension first, then aero.

Last edited by Kamran; 06-08-2016 at 01:56 AM.
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Old 06-08-2016, 10:27 AM
  #56  
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I have been beaten around the track by an E46 M3 set up with a very good suspension and aero, with slicks.

You don't need huge HP to go fast on a track.

Last edited by leadville1; 06-08-2016 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 06-08-2016, 10:17 PM
  #57  
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About the transmission fluid..dont you have the M7?

That asmoil is for auto trans..
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Old 06-08-2016, 10:20 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by KLdy View Post
About the transmission fluid..dont you have the M7?

That asmoil is for auto trans..
Yep, Tremec transmissions use automatic transmission fluid; it's been that way at least since I've owned my first Tremec (C5 Z06).

http://www.amsoil.com/mygarage/vehic...LET+CORVETTE+7
Manual Transmission,TR6070 (7-SPD)......GLS [3]
All TEMPS......
Signature Series Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) (ATFQT)
OE Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid (OTFQT)
Torque-Drive Synthetic Transmission Fluid (ATD1G)
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Old 06-12-2016, 06:17 AM
  #59  
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Update:
Diffuser: Canceled the diffuser for the time being. I'd like to understand more about the aero of this car before I do something like that. It seems the car does not have much of a lift out of the factory, even in plain Z51 trim, and it makes me wonder how much turbulence we actually have at the bottom. After all, if we don't have much turbulence going on, the diffuser's function is also diminished to some extent. I will research more about this subject.

Delivery of parts: The parts keep coming in. APR aero pack is shipped already, the radiator and wheels should be shipped this week, and the rear caster measurement adaptor should be shipped by 6/20/16. I also expect my rear Z06 brakes to be shipped, soon.

Shark bar: Just received the shark bar! It feels somewhat heavy, but I suppose it is needed for strength.


The plate is also very heavy. Oh well, it's a safety equipment...

Last edited by X25; 06-12-2016 at 06:18 AM.
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Old 06-12-2016, 06:51 PM
  #60  
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Really love the build thread! You're doing many of the upgrades that have been on my mind, so I'm looking forward to seeing the progress.

Originally Posted by X25 View Post
Sharkbar gloss black with lap-belt-bar-kit.
Schroth Profi II ASM race harness in gray.
OEM Competition seat conversion kit
Really interested in seeing how this setup comes together. Harnesses are a big factor for me wanting to get a C7 with the competition seats. A 4-point system worked well keeping me in place while driving at Bonderant a few years ago, but I like the idea of not needing an aftermarket seat. I've read the discussions about 5/6-point harnesses to avoid submarining, but also read about cautions for vehicles without cages. I wouldn't be racing, only HPDE events, but still want to make sure things are safe if anything goes wrong. Also curious about the angles/routing of the various belts... I know Schroth has good instructions/videos, so would like to know how you find the installation in the C7 with the Sharkbar and lap belt kit.
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