Dabigsnake

Gone thru my front pads on my 17 Z07 w CCB rotors. Seems GM has discontinued them? I am not happy, as I really need new pads NOW. The left front material is gone in the top area, with little showing on the bottom. Yes, I run hard on the track, and was only able to get in one session this weekend with the Ultimate Street Car Challenge. only the left front disintegrated as the others still have some life. HELP? Pagid pads? Where from? Thanks

BEZ06

No - they haven't discontinued production of the pads!!

You're probably looking at part# 23198733 and that is an old #, but there are still LOTS of parts suppliers that have them in stock.

All they did is change the part# to 23316708 - exactly the same pads, just a different #.

Look on eBay at either of those part#'s, or do a google search and LOTS of GM parts suppliers will pop up with pads available.

You can also look under ACDelco part# 171-1186

Actually I just looked on Amazon using that ACDelco part# and they have a great price - I think I'll order a set myself!!! (Edit: I just ordered 2 sets!!)

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Dabigsnake

Hey thanks guys. Yep, I saw those on Amazon at half the price. ordered a set, but dealer says they may handle under warranty as the car is just at 3000 miles. That would be nice. They usually don't just change a part number. I believe they had an issue, as mine actually didn't wear down completely, but actually lost some of the pad, separating from the backing. And that "discontinued" I keep finding on some GM parts sites, tells me something is UP? Shame on me for not having a spare set at the track, but, I'm learning. This is the front pads, seems the material was disintegrating. haven't taken them off yet, so the dealer can see this while on the car.

davepl

Will Amazon Now deliver them 2 hours or less? :-)

I -assume- it is this one but need someone to confirm:

https://smile.amazon.com/ACDelco-171...words=171-1186

BEZ06

Yep - those are C7 Z06/Z07 front brake pads!!

That's quite a good price!!

I bought 2 sets, but I don't have Amazon Prime, and I don't need them in 2 hours (), so I just went for free shipping with 5-8 days delivery.

2 sets with tax were about $950, i.e., $475 per set - a lot cheaper than anywhere else.

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thebishman

Looks like your calipers are getting way too hot. I've done a decent amount of track days on my red CCM calipers and they look nothing like that. Plus I just put new front pads on, (even though I still had about 5mm of front pad left), and the integrity of the pads themselves were perfect; just worn down normally.

BEZ06

Yeah - I had noticed that as well.

Like you, I've done seriously hard braking, and I don't have that black discoloration on my red calipers either - it looks like those ones in the pictures have gotten a lot hotter than mine, and in the three events I've done at Daytona in my C7 I'm braking down from around 170+mph for the Bus Stop, and from 180+ for the turn into the infield, and I'm doing 10-12 laps per session, four sessions/day, and two of those events were 3-day HPDE's. Bottom line - I've done LOTS of hard braking from fairly high speed, and my calipers don't look like that.

Also, like your pads, mine wear down normally and they look sorta gray/white. The pictures of Dabigsnake's pads show them to be a sort of brownish color, but that could be just the camera or lighting.

That's why I asked earlier if they had been burnished properly before going to the track.

Also - those are OE Brembo pads, correct - they're not Hawk or Carbotech are they???

And the GM/Brembo pads have not been discontinued - the part# was just changed. That's done all the time just to keep us owners on our toes (or maybe so they can increase the price for the same part!!)

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Sean Tex

I recently purchased a 2017 Z06 with Z07 package. Is the brake burnishing procedure necessary for the Brembo brakes or is it for the standard? If so does anyone sell pre-burnished pads so you don't have to perform this procedure?
Thanks for any input.

BEZ06

Take a look at the "Sticky" threads at the top of the Z06 section, and in there is a thread about burnishing - here's a link:

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...urnishing.html


Down toward the bottom of post#1 it says this:


I've never heard of anybody that sells "pre-burnished" stock pads for the Z07 rotors. When I swap in a new set of pads I just do the procedure on a convenient road nearby that has very little traffic - it only takes 10 minutes to do the burnishing, then I drive around for 10 for 15 minutes to cool everything off.

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Sean Tex

Thx BEZ06,
I did some research and found an Australian company that "scorches" their brake pads during processing .... to eliminate fad, see the link and skip to 3:30 mins in.


https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/s...6&action=click


Surely for the price you pay for performance brakes they could supply them burnished, let alone what the accelerate/brake procedure does to your calipers and rotors?
BTW 650 degree C is 1200F ..... steel at this temp is a dark cherry red color.

Bill Dearborn

Yeah, but the rotors are ceramic and that really doesn't bother them. Burnishing the pads and rotors in will give better brake performance. It really doesn't cause all that much wear of either the pad or the rotor. I would say the added wear is incrementally more than zero. As for the calipers they get a little dusty which is a yawn.

Bill

BEZ06

First....below is a picture of forum member fleming23 running his Z07 at the track - but he has swapped on an AP Racing cast iron rotor set up. Like you say, when they heat up the color gets real purty!!




Second....as far as "pre-bedding/burnishing" pads, there are LOTS of outfits that will do that for the pads they sell.

Butt....I do not know of any company that will pre-burnish stock pads for our carbon ceramic rotors!!

And....I just don't know of any readily available pads for our rotors other than the stock GM/ACDelco pads. Our pads are distributed by Brembo, and our stock front pads have a Textar T4300 compound, and the rears are a Pagid S600 compound - compounds specifically formulated to work with carbon ceramic rotors.

There have been a couple of forum members that tried Carbotech pads (ones with a standard iron rotor compound) and as I recall did not find them satisfactory and had excessive rotor wear.

There are only a few compounds that I'm aware of that are manufactured to specifically work with carbon ceramic rotors. Take a look at this Pagid site at their racing compounds - you'll see the RSC compounds are made to work with "ceramic composite discs":

http://www.pagidracing.com/products/...rake-pads.html


You can find lots of references about how to bed/burnish brakes and what you're doing during that procedure - here's one:

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-su...and-procedures

In there, the "StopTech’s Recommended Procedure for Bedding-in Performance Brake Systems" link says:

Of course that's for cast iron rotors, where you're doing 2 very important things: 1. outgassing the pad's binding resins to "mature" the pad; 2. establishing a smooth, even "transfer layer" of pad material on the rotor in order to have good effective "adherent friction" braking action.

With our carbon ceramic rotors, there doesn't seem to be any transfer layer buildup on the rotors. Either we have primarily "abrasive friction" braking, or (as I feel is more likely) if we have the proper pad compound interacting with the carbon ceramic rotors, we probably have some sort of adherent friction going on between our pads and the rotor. And that's probably why it's important to have a pad compound that is designed to work specifically with the carbon ceramic rotors.

Bottom line - if you can find some outfit that will "pre-burnish" a set of pads for you, that's probably all you need, because I don't think that our burnishing is doing any buildup of a transfer layer on the rotor.

I don't know of any brake outfit that is selling "pre-burnished" stock brake pads for our Z07's, but if you can find one where you can send them a set of new pads and get them back all burnished and ready to go, let us know who and how much!!

Me - I find it very easy to do the burnishing myself!!

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Sean Tex

Thanks, all interesting stuff ....... I guess my beef is that for the cost Brembo, or whatever make, should be performing the additional "curing" (that's essential what it is) themselves, Chevrolet should insist they do!
However, I might look at the scorching process as a bench-top experiment, if I have any results I'll share.
How long do the pads last, that is on track days?

BEZ06

Hmmm....very hard to say!!

Take a look at that burnishing thread in the stickies - you'll see some drivers whose pads didn't make it through a day, and some who say they have 4 days and still have some useable pad remaining.

Do a search and you'll find some info on what people are getting.

I drove a 2-day event here at Daytona in April with a brand new set of fronts. We were doing four 30 minute sessions per day, but I didn't do the last session on the 2nd day because my pads looked so worn. I was running mostly in Sport 1, and I wondered if maybe the Active Handling was putting on brakes (I didn't feel anything, and the C7 doesn't seem to give alert messages when the AH goes active, like the C6).

I installed new ones for the NCM HPDE at VIR a couple weeks ago. After the 2-day event they're not even 1/2 gone. I ran in Sport 2, and that may have helped pad life.

I just had another member ask me if I thought whether the pads he just ran for 2 days at Road America might be okay for a couple days at a Watkins Glen event coming up next month. He told me he has a new set of fronts and the pad compound is .400", and the pads he ran at RA were down to .275" remaining. So, he used .125", and if he used that much more at The Glen he would still have .150" remaining - a little more than 1/8", and I'd be happy to finish the event with that much pad. I told him I thought he'd be okay, but to take those fresh ones with him and keep an eye on the ones in the calipers - he would need to do a track burnish procedure if he did install them.

So....different drivers use the brakes differently, different tracks require different braking, length and number of sessions may be different, as the pads wear they may get hotter and as they thin that may cause faster wear, etc., etc., etc.

Take a look at Amazon - they currently have a very good price on front pads ($450), and with the current Prime thing going on I believe you get free shipping. Do a search on Amazon for 171-1186 (the ACDelco part#).

Many Z07 owners have switched to iron rotors for less expensive consumables. If you are going to stick with the stock ccb's (like I am), get a set or two of those available on Amazon, and keep an eye out for rotors on Amazon and eBay to see if a good deal might come along. I have no idea yet how long the rotors will last. (I've found $1250 or so is as cheap as you'll normally find a front rotor).

The rotors have a minimum thickness and a minimum weight printed on them. The thickness doesn't seem to really go down much (no ridge develops on the outside edge as you use them, like an iron rotor), but they sorta evaporate from the inside and the weight goes down.

I weighed one of mine when prepping for the VIR event. The rotor I weighed had a min weight of around 5980 grams (the picture below is of a new rotor, not the used one I weighed - I can't remember exactly what the min weight was, but it was close to this one). When I weighed it the weight was still something like 6060 grams - so they were still several ounces above the min weight and I went ahead and ran them. Before the VIR event they had 10 track days and a couple thousand miles of street driving. I need to weigh it again to see what I used at the VIR event:





Bottom line - these pads and rotors are expensive consumables, but they work great!! What exactly you'll be able to get out of them are something you'll need to just track the car to find out.

Here's a PDR video from the VIR event where I was running in Sport 2:


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Sean Tex

Thanks Bill, that is great info ..... you never mentioned rear brake pads, they must last a good deal longer than the front?
From your video it appeared you were braking later (harder) than the other drivers .....
Your Corvette must be a different model than mine, I don't have Sport 2 mode, just Sport & Track.

desmophile

I know this is a thread about front CCB pads, but I have searched high and low on the forum/internet, and cannot find rear CCB pads forZ06/7. Can anyone help me

BEZ06

Uh....read your Owner's Manual!!! I looked at an online 2017 manual, and the description of driving modes starts on page 201.

All the Z06's have mag shocks, so you have PTM just like my car.

After you put the drive mode into Track, push the button twice and you'll go into the Track sub-modes: Wet, Dry, Sport 1, Sport 2, Race.

Read the manual and do some searching on the forum to learn all about the PTM modes and what they'll do for you.

And you're right - I never mentioned the rear pads. They'll wear, but not as quickly as the fronts. I think I've been getting at least twice as many track days out of the rears as the fronts.

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BEZ06

Best place I've found to get them is Amazon or eBay!!

Do a search on those sites for:

Front Pads
Rear Pads
Amazon currently has the fronts available for about $450 for a set - I think they have a free shipping deal going on right now, but you'll pay tax.

I don't see any current good deals either place for a set of rear pads, but I've seen them for around $400 (last ones I got on eBay were $325 - I grabbed them real fast!!).

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Sean Tex

Thx BEZ, due to my wife's home remodeling list I have had little time to even drive my new Z06. I haven't driven it in track mode and obviously educated myself on all the options .... is Sport 2 the "holy Jesus" mode with all traction control off?
I'm trying to get my head around the option of swapping out the Brembo's for AP Racing, if they provide significant better life & cost savings i.e. saving the Brembo's for the future resell.

BEZ06

Active Handling/StabiliTrak is still on in Wet, Dry, and Sport 1 PTM modes - although I think it's in a less intrusive mode than the non-PTM modes of Tour and Sport. I suspect in the Track Sport 1 PTM mode the AH is actually in a "Competitive Driving Mode" like available in the non-mag shock cars, where AH is still on, but lets the car go a little farther before it intervenes.

When you go into Sport 2 or Race, AH is off, however, PTM is still active.

If you, for some reason, feel the need to turn off all the features that can help save your a$$, hold the button down for about 10 seconds or so and you'll turn off all the nannies.

BTW - Traction Control is something completely different from AH and PTM. You can turn off the TC in Tour or Sport. When you go into Track mode TC is turned off and the TC icon will be illuminated.

However....when you go into Track, the AH light also is illuminated (normally indicating that it's off), but when you select Wet, Dry, or Sport 1 you'll see a message "Active Handling ON", even though the icon is illuminated. When you go into Sport 2 or Race, AH is off, and you'll see a message telling you that.