Internetguru

On my Track days this weekend I now realize I am going to have to cut some costs or not go to the track very often. Current estimate approx $700/track day.

Analysis:

$600 burning 1/3 of MPSS ZP's ($1800 but should get 6 track days/set)
$355 for 2 days of track fees
$175 for Oil changes to keep my factory powertrain warranty
$165 for non-ethanol track gas
$75 brake pads (Actual cost $150 but can use for 4 track days)
$25 tech car
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$1395/2 track days
$697.50/track day

Changing only my tires to cheaper less capable Sumitomo HTR Z III I estimate I will lower my track day cost to $553/track day.

I can save an additional $40/day by running pump gas. $513/tack day

I am risking the entire cost of my C7 if I was to total it since I am not purchasing track insurance.

I am estimating I can run my C5 for $482.50/track day using the Sumitomos and pump gas.

This car also allows me to risk way less if I total the vehicle.

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Anyone here know where I can find a good estimate for the daily track costs to run an NC Miata?

X25

Response inline

Internetguru

What size/brand rims do you mount the Nitto NT01's on? OEM Z51's?

What size Nitto NT01's does everyone run? Fronts: 235/35ZR19 Rears: 285/35ZR20?

How/where can I get Nitto NT01's and get them mounted and balanced for $1200 a set? I have been paying Discount Tire about $40/tire to unmount/mount/spin/tpms rebuild/waste fee.

How are others dealing with the Chevrolet Power Train warranty requirement when tracking of swapping to 15W-50 Mobil 1 synthetic before track events and back to OEM 5W-30 Mobil 1 after track events?

Met driver at MSR Houston this past weekend running Red Solo group who only uses his C7 Z51 Corvette coupe for track so he leaves 15W-50 Mobil 1 in it all the time saving money on the swap back and forth. I daily drive my C7 so that's not going to work for me. He was working hard to economize his expenses and said 12 track events last year cost him a little over $20,000 so he has his expenses down to about $833/track day guessing his hotels and travel expenses are part of his extra. He said he was building a BRZ/FRS track car to lower his costs as the economics on a C7 are more difficult to control. Also he was purchasing track day insurance(RLI is about $354/2day event with 15% deductible on a $70k C7) which I decided to GAMBOWL and risk throwing the keys in the garbage on my way out of the track. So he really has his expenses down by doing all his own maintenance and buying everything he can find for as inexpensive as possible.

Pretty sure there is an Elephant in the room here.... I have been studying the Miata forum track rats posts, reading their expense threads and most of them say don't add it up and don't tell the CFO(wife) what the real costs are or I am toast.

Bill Dearborn

Miatas are cheap to race. Low weight and low performance with fairly high cornering speeds so consumable costs are much lower than a Corvette. They don't go as fast and can go through corners faster so the braking effort is much less. Less oil in the engine, half the number of spark plugs, less gas used, etc. If you smash it up you take it home and use a hammer to straighten it out and a spray can of paint from an auto parts store to get it ready for the track again. If something breaks there are plenty of parts in junk yards and other places. Guy across the street from me has a Spec Miata he races in SCCA. The prices he pays for parts is eye opening cheap.

Bill

lobsterroboto

Not sure if you're referring to me but I did have a conversation about costs this last weekend @ MSRH.

I can break down my expenses here.


305 - Track weekend
250 - 2 nights @ hotel
275 - HPDE insurance (price depends on track, MSRH is cheaper than TWS for example with RLI insurance)

I run through 2.5 tanks of fuel in a weekend but I don't factor that cost in. Most tracks there is a gas station with 93 down the road so you're not paying the fuel track "tax"


The consumables are what get me.

Though I may of found a source for PSS takeoffs that will greatly reduce my tire spend every year.

I also factor in wear, just because the fronts are toasted doesn't mean your rears are. Tossing on a used set of fronts is an economical solution.

the actual number is closer to 17,675 but that factors in buying a NEW full set of tires every 3 events and a full set of Carbotech brakes instead of just fronts. Which I cut that **** out, that was just crazy.

X25

There is no advantage in using 19"/20" wheels at the track, and the tires at those diameters will cost substantially more. I switched to 18"/19" wheels to keep the front/rear diameter difference easier, but some also use 18"/18" setup. You can't go smaller due to brake fitment issues.
Some use 275/35/18F 305/30/19R (which I also tried). I currently use 315/30/18F, 325/30/19R. You can use Cray Spider wheels for this. I sold my OEM wheels/tires for $1900. Set of Spider wheels cost $1600.

DiscountTire does not charge mounting if you buy the tires from them. They also do price match. So, you can get them to price-match Onlinetires.com, and only pay for TPMS and balancing. In my case, I usually pay $107 or $120 for the whole service, depending on what I am getting done.

I keep Mobil1 0W-40 all the time. There was a post about month ago, hinting at Mobil1 OW-40 also being included into dexos1 list, and replacing the outrageous and frankly, offensive track/street use oil recommendation of switching back and forth. Nothing is yet announced, though.

I also do have a Miata; not an old one, but a '13 model with race Öhlins, 2.5 liter engine conversion, etc. It is true that the tires only cost about $650, and it uses less fuel, but back when I sold my '13 C6 Z06 to only do track days with my Miata, it did not work out well for me; it is just not as exhilarating, even though it is very fun in its own right. Now I have both, and switch back and forth : )

lobsterroboto

This guy gets it.

I only use the factory wheels because I bought an extra set when I first got the car and I haven't started using R compounds yet.

I'll be selling one set and getting another as soon as I can determine what size I want to go with and if I want to go with a square setup or not.

Internetguru

Yep it was you. It was awesome to see someone running a C7 Z51 in red solo that runs a lot. The economics of track days are brutal and the bigger and badder the car the worse they seem to get.

Once we start running faster we will switch to our purpose built C5 track car and stop using our daily drivers as there is a lot of risk when we start reaching for the edge of our abilities.

Sharing a car between myself and my son will save money over both of us running a vehicle and will eliminate a Friday night extra trip to bring the support van full of parts, fluids, tools, tires, etc. I am going to start filling with 0W-40 Mobil 1 as suggested and leaving it. That should help reduce my costs a bit.

Will continue to work on a great budget tire solution and see if I can find a happy place for my wallet. I would really love to keep tracking Corvettes. I still may get a Miata and see if I like the experience.

Jay_Davis

I think the original post is missing some costs:
- brake rotors
- change differential fluid
- change brake fluid

As a previous person mentioned, you don't have to do oil every day, I do it after 8 to 10 hours of track time, and no special gas needed. I also upgraded the brake rotors and pads so they last longer than the OEM ones (and I don't need the stupid cooling rings).

mallett435

If you are worried about these costs, don't gamble on losing your C7, get track insurance and eliminate some other costs. Or, simply don't track it. Also, this is assuming you don't break anything. I'd budget $1k per day across the whole year including lodging. Expensive hobby!

Internetguru

I suppose one never really fully appreciates the financial aspects of tracking a vehicle until they do it. I like an idiot started out by tracking three vehicles and when the damage started stacking I realized I need to get my expenses down or I will not be getting very many track days/year.

We have been building/prepping/sorting out a 2004 C5 recreational HPDE track car that I am fully prepared to walk away from if we have a bad day at the track. If I would have understood the financial aspects better early on I would have a Miata track toy. I still may go that way.

MerakiAutoworks

Useful thread!

-Josh

Chets LS3

A lot of people with a lot of knowledge have covered some good aspects here. As you get faster it escalates quickly.

I run red with TDE as well and t can escalate quickly when you get fast.

I was at Nola this weekend and I only ran one session on Sunday morning chasing a track record. I loaded up after the one session to conserve consumables.

Like someone mentioned. Rotors is something g that will need changed quickly on this car.

X25 nailed some a good bit of cost savings for you. Also if your set on streets and don't want to go to r comps. You could go with takeoffs on the forum or Bridgestone re11s

You can also go to 18/19 combo (it fits)

Internetguru

The 0-40w Mobil 1 tip is a great easy savings that I am super happy to know. Learning from seasoned track drivers like X25 & lobsterroboto is excellent.

Yep. I changed the diff and brake fluid before track day and I am guessing I need to do those at least once a season.

Along with my Turkey baster clutch fluid change outs at the track which I did not add in but that one is like $4. So there's an additional $350-$400/year cost.

Rotors are going to last how long? And what should I replace them with? I would think about switching to the Z06 brakes on my C7 like X25 did, his build thread is redonkulous and I love it! But I am needing to control costs and my novice skill level needs wheel time not better equipment.

Planning on running only my C7 and we will share one car between me and my son and run different groups for our 1st track days in 2017. Hoping to have the C5 sorted out for the one after that and we will then both share the C5.

After those two outings we will decide if we want to purchase and try to run a Miata alongside the C5. Both of us love the power of the Corvette platform and really enjoy having to work the balance of the car to get it thru the corners.

Some of the Mustangs in our groups liked to give the pass and drag race you to the corner... So you would be offline going to fast and have to brake super hard hoping that the Mustang did not rear end you as their brakes always smelled like they were cooked. Not a huge problem in a C7... But a Miata is going to be frustrating for me when people do this. My wife did it unintentionally to a couple of people in her BMW M235i but it was her 1st time on a track and her 1st time driving fast thru corners.

My dream of using a Cayman GT4 as my track toy went up in smoke after I started calculating all the expenses annual and consumables... I will need to win a giant lottery to make that happen.

So much fun... My eyes still hurt from all the G forces.

Many thanks to all here who have contributed some great money saving tips!

Bill Dearborn

GM owners manual says to change the diff fluid after every 24 hours of track usage. They have recommended that since the 2009 model year. I suspect that is based on warranty repair experience with C5 and C6 diffs.

As for oil changes. I put the 15W50 in my Z at the beginning of April, changed it for more 15W50 in July and then changed back to 5W30 for the winter. The only way to make it cost effective is to DIY and buy the oil from Walmart in the 5 qt containers. 1 qt containers come close to doubling the cost. Two 5 quart containers fill the sump to just above the full dot and are .3 of a quart short of the half quart over that GM recommends for track driving.

Bill

Poor-sha

This thread here breaks down my consumables from last year and this year but the net is that the C7Z costs me ~$1000/day to run and that is without insurance, instructing so I usually don't pay registration, and buying gas off track.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...e-numbers.html

As others have noted, the costs go up substantially the harder you push the car. I just run 15w50 from Spring to Fall but Mobil 1 does make a 5W50 that you can order online and I did run that in March when it was normal for the track day to start around freezing.

X25

Bill, if you recall, 2009+ C6Z, ZR1, and GS had 10.5 quarts oil capacity. IIRC, initially, C7 also had the same capacity listed, but they had a hold on Z51 cars at the factory during the C7 release, and amended the user manuals, dropping the capacity specs to 9.8 quarts. My guess is that they did so to address some concerns (frothing? PCV/breather contamination?), but I think that half quart recommendation is just to get us back to that real capacity. In other words I believe they did not want to say 0.7 quarts, which would be the exact amount needed to get to 10.5 quarts, since 'half' sounds better than 0.7. As such, I'd not feel too bad if I added a little more than 0.5 over during oil changes : )

Jay_Davis

I went through the OEM pads in about 6 hours of track time and the rotors didn't look too good after going thorough 3 sets of pads, so I wasn't taking any chances. Of course, these rotors and pads are cheap, but you have to add the cost and hassled of changing them.

I switched to AP Racing 2 piece in the front and DBA 4000 in the rear. The AP racing are not cheap, but they lasted all season (15 days plus a few thousand miles of street driving). Since I wanted it to behave well on the street, I went with Ferodo DS2500 pads. They work great on the street, a tad better performance than OEM on the track, and lasted about 33% longer than the OEM pads.

Of course, how fast you wear through things depends a lot on the track and the driver.

RichmondC7

I use my C7 almost exclusively on HPDE. I use non-run flat PSS in original size. So far I have been getting around 12 -14 track days on these tires. I bleed, not replace DOT 4 fluid after every other weekend session. I have found rotors for $99 from AC Delco. I use Carbotech DT12 front and 10 on the rear. I have 6 sessions on them and they have about 50% to go. I change my own oil and filter using Mobile 1 15w50 from Walmart for $35. I change oil and filter after 6 track days. I use tracks near home - Houston, Tx and stay with friends when at MSR Cresson. 93 octane Top Tier gas is fine and (currently) cheap.

Jay_Davis

I don't know how you get 12 - 14 track days out of those tires. Mine are done in 5 and if I try for 6 they end up corded before the end of the day.