Bmwmike

I noticed American Racing sells shorty and long tube headers both available in catless versions. Besides the shorty bolting up to the stock mid pipe what is the difference reason to get shorty instead of long tubes?

robert miller

Shorty will give you less horse power.

Steve Garrett

While considering headers, I discovered that short tube headers do not require a tune. Long tube headers will require a tune. Thus, voiding your warranty or extended warranty.

timmyZ06

can you elaborate on that? What would be the gain of doing shortys on stock tune? Im sure it would improve the sounds over the stock manifolds though!!

RyanC7

Why bother with anything other than long tubes? That is like drinking light beer....why? Give me an 8% IPA every time.

Internets_Ninja

Mid length will give you about half the power of long tubes. But the mid lengths will bolt up to the stock X pipe and since the primaries are not that long it wont have a huge effect of cylinder chamber scavenging. Additionally it will keep the O2s a little closer to the exhaust ports on the heads which will keep the fuel trims closer to stock. You also won't be pushing that much more air through the engine so you won't go much further up the MAF Frequency Range. So you don't need to adjust engine timing or fueling to compensate for either.

Long tubes moves the primary O2's further away from the exhaust ports which means you SHOULD adjust the narrowband O2 sensor mv range and reaction speed to compensate. Additionally, the extra exhaust scavenging and air flow means you SHOULD change your timing values for power and drive-ability. And lastly, you will be going further up the MAF frequency range at full throttle and will need to adjust the MAF values to keep fueling in line. You could also change the VVE in the tune but its not necessary I suppose. Only if you really want to be super OCD.

Internets_Ninja

I mean what if you're going to the beach all day and spend 8 hours of drinking. I'd rather be drinking light beers out in the sun for 8 hours rather than an 8% IPA and be stumbling drunk in 3 hours.

RyanC7

Amateur.....

Internets_Ninja

It would be a train wreck for me otherwise

lakemg

If you do your research you can run long tubes with cats without a tune and no CEL. I've posted details on my setup a few times...

timmyZ06

im sure its doable, but the real question is, does it worth it?!

lakemg

What's the question???

timmyZ06

power gains!! Without tune i dont see much gain if lt with tune is rouglhy 30 whp

lakemg

You are absolutely 100 % correct. Even 30 whp with a tune, isn't worth the cost for power gains.

I might be one of the few, but the stock power level more than meets my needs. My goal was solely to get better sound, because the stock NPP was just too damn quiet. So for me, the cost is totally worth it for the sound increase.

I may tune it at some point down the road, but for now, I'm good to go with the setup.

MitchAlsup

This!

Fore58

I believe that both headers have about same or close in net power with a custom tune. As mentioned earlier, the long tubes require a tune in order to gain maximum power. It appears that the additional power is coming from the catless shorty headers as oppose to the cats. Just my .02

Internets_Ninja

The CEL can be avoided yes. But you are no longer running optimal timing and fueling at part throttle and you are leaving half of the power on the table at full throttle. But I can understand your reasoning. It's not like you will hurt the motor or anything so its not wrong per say to install long tubes without a tune.

To most it is not, but to those who are afraid to tune and want the killer sound that comes with it, perhaps. However, I personally wouldn't do it without a tune. Heck my car doesn't have LT's yet and I've already tuned it a dozen times. And I'm sure I will tune it a dozen more to get it just right when I put headers on.

Mids with tune vs LT's with tune is not really that close. You can expect 10-15whp with mids and tune, you can expect 30+ with LT's and tune.

Bottom line is if you are willing to tune, there is zero logic in installing Mid Length headers.

Jack Be Quick Racing

Long tubes will give you the best sound and best potential for power - no question. There has been HUGE debates about which long tube headers produce the best outcome; ARH, Kooks, tri-y versions.... That was a holy war for awhile. It was resolved by a fairly comprehensive set of comparison dyno runs across the brands but, I have not seen the thread in a long time.

Mid-length will offer a very good bump, and NO its not less then half of long tubes when apples to apples (both header sets no-tune or both headers w/tune). These are mid-length not shorties. There has been enough posted dyno charts to prove that one out already. They WILL NOT provide the same as long tube. For raw performance you are better off with long tube, tuned or un-tuned but, maximized with tuned.

By the way, swapping stock x-pipe for off-road x-pipe improves sound and flow (24% better then stock) - but dyno's only showed .5 to .75 HP increase. Even with stock exhaust, swapping to an off-road x-pipe will change the sound a little bit. A little bit.

Mid-length - box stock - when run with high-flow cats - do not throw a code with out a tune. Meaning, it is arguable that changing to mid-length would not lead to harm with the powertrain due to a modification you did to the car. Long tube, box stock, throw a code and you need to get a tune to turn the CEL off, calibrate to the right settings to compensate, and you would need a tune to get the most from the change as well. Your not going to argue your way out of that one as easily from a warranty claim perspective.

timmyZ06

I think its a case of doing it right, or leave it alone here!! I do miss the sick sounds of the LT throughn stock NPP!! But not ready to mess up my C7Z powertrain warranty yet!

next week, ill install my Borla xpipe, hoping it will be enough!

Fore58

If you are in fact talking about dyno numbers then yes the long tubes shine better as a bolt on alone. Now just take a look at the fast list and see how close they are in the 1/4 mile. The cars that had E85 set up with the long tubes and tune were the only ones faster than mid length. Doesn't appear to be a big difference to me. Just wondering what that particular car would have done with the E85 and mid length. Having said that I strongly believe the mid length is a consideration for a mild bolt on.