A&A....procharger preferences???
07-20-2018, 08:45 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
A&A....procharger preferences???
Just wondering who has what and what the pros say about either. Im either going to get the P-1X or A&A equivalent.
Thoughts??
Thoughts??
07-21-2018, 10:01 AM
#2
Drifting
Lots of discussion on this in the Forced Induction forum. Go have a look there. Bottom line for me is that all of these systems are really good but have their individual nuances that may or may not matter to you.
Procharger comes with tune and tuner and precut radiator shroud for intercooler mounting, and no need to move ABS module or remove crank pulley. But... they specify only the vertical intercooler for 2015 and later models. This may be fine for drag racers and the occasional highway pull but it sits in front of and blocks a lot of the radiator and will likely be unsuitable for track days and other hard use due to heat. At least one member with a later model ordered a horizontal intercooler and they shipped the vertical as specified for the later models. Seems some of the vendors' ordering pages allow ordering the horizontal for later years but the Procharger main site clearly says that 2015 and later only get vertical and they ship that.
A&A and ECS: both great kits and service with horizontal intercoolers (may require moving or removal of secondary heat exchanger on later models). A&A comes with a nice new balancer (that requires removal of your OEM pulley). But... with both have to move the ABS module which requires bending the hard lines. This is either no problem or a major problem depending on who you talk to. I know of at least one member here that had some serious issues with that. Also some logistics involved in getting a base tune and you need your own tuning device... or are willing to go find a shop to do a custom tune. Also requires the installer to cut the hole for the intercooler in the radiator shroud, which may be easier or harder than replacing it with a precut piece, depending on who you talk to.
Procharger comes with tune and tuner and precut radiator shroud for intercooler mounting, and no need to move ABS module or remove crank pulley. But... they specify only the vertical intercooler for 2015 and later models. This may be fine for drag racers and the occasional highway pull but it sits in front of and blocks a lot of the radiator and will likely be unsuitable for track days and other hard use due to heat. At least one member with a later model ordered a horizontal intercooler and they shipped the vertical as specified for the later models. Seems some of the vendors' ordering pages allow ordering the horizontal for later years but the Procharger main site clearly says that 2015 and later only get vertical and they ship that.
A&A and ECS: both great kits and service with horizontal intercoolers (may require moving or removal of secondary heat exchanger on later models). A&A comes with a nice new balancer (that requires removal of your OEM pulley). But... with both have to move the ABS module which requires bending the hard lines. This is either no problem or a major problem depending on who you talk to. I know of at least one member here that had some serious issues with that. Also some logistics involved in getting a base tune and you need your own tuning device... or are willing to go find a shop to do a custom tune. Also requires the installer to cut the hole for the intercooler in the radiator shroud, which may be easier or harder than replacing it with a precut piece, depending on who you talk to.
Last edited by raylo; 07-21-2018 at 10:52 AM.
07-21-2018, 06:52 PM
#3
Racer
Thread Starter
Lots of discussion on this in the Forced Induction forum. Go have a look there. Bottom line for me is that all of these systems are really good but have their individual nuances that may or may not matter to you.
Procharger comes with tune and tuner and precut radiator shroud for intercooler mounting, and no need to move ABS module or remove crank pulley. But... they specify only the vertical intercooler for 2015 and later models. This may be fine for drag racers and the occasional highway pull but it sits in front of and blocks a lot of the radiator and will likely be unsuitable for track days and other hard use due to heat. At least one member with a later model ordered a horizontal intercooler and they shipped the vertical as specified for the later models. Seems some of the vendors' ordering pages allow ordering the horizontal for later years but the Procharger main site clearly says that 2015 and later only get vertical and they ship that.
A&A and ECS: both great kits and service with horizontal intercoolers (may require moving or removal of secondary heat exchanger on later models). A&A comes with a nice new balancer (that requires removal of your OEM pulley). But... with both have to move the ABS module which requires bending the hard lines. This is either no problem or a major problem depending on who you talk to. I know of at least one member here that had some serious issues with that. Also some logistics involved in getting a base tune and you need your own tuning device... or are willing to go find a shop to do a custom tune. Also requires the installer to cut the hole for the intercooler in the radiator shroud, which may be easier or harder than replacing it with a precut piece, depending on who you talk to.
Procharger comes with tune and tuner and precut radiator shroud for intercooler mounting, and no need to move ABS module or remove crank pulley. But... they specify only the vertical intercooler for 2015 and later models. This may be fine for drag racers and the occasional highway pull but it sits in front of and blocks a lot of the radiator and will likely be unsuitable for track days and other hard use due to heat. At least one member with a later model ordered a horizontal intercooler and they shipped the vertical as specified for the later models. Seems some of the vendors' ordering pages allow ordering the horizontal for later years but the Procharger main site clearly says that 2015 and later only get vertical and they ship that.
A&A and ECS: both great kits and service with horizontal intercoolers (may require moving or removal of secondary heat exchanger on later models). A&A comes with a nice new balancer (that requires removal of your OEM pulley). But... with both have to move the ABS module which requires bending the hard lines. This is either no problem or a major problem depending on who you talk to. I know of at least one member here that had some serious issues with that. Also some logistics involved in getting a base tune and you need your own tuning device... or are willing to go find a shop to do a custom tune. Also requires the installer to cut the hole for the intercooler in the radiator shroud, which may be easier or harder than replacing it with a precut piece, depending on who you talk to.
Heck I did not realize we had a forced induction section. I am kind of leaning towards the A&A. The balancer,as long as its certified im good.Removing the rack or relocating the ABS is alright.
07-21-2018, 07:13 PM
#4
Drifting
Also, I did not really look into the roots types too much since the centris make more sense to me. But I did take a quick glance at the Magnuson install manual thinking it might be easier install than the centris... but and it was like 55 pages. Yikes. I assume the Edelbrock and Z06 conversion would be similar, lots of plumbing for the air/water intercoolers. BTW, the FI forum is here: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...n-nitrous-173/
I dunno about relocating the ABS. It needs to move a fair amount and if you screw up the hard lines you are in for a very expensive lesson. I wish ECS and/or A&A would post a youtube video of them actually performing that step. Not an abridged "look it's done" thing but actual hands on, where to put pressure on the lines, etc.
I dunno about relocating the ABS. It needs to move a fair amount and if you screw up the hard lines you are in for a very expensive lesson. I wish ECS and/or A&A would post a youtube video of them actually performing that step. Not an abridged "look it's done" thing but actual hands on, where to put pressure on the lines, etc.
Last edited by raylo; 07-21-2018 at 07:16 PM.
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Ghostnotes (07-21-2018)
07-22-2018, 12:42 PM
#8
Drifting
Agree it'd be pretty easy if you disconnected the lines and used tube benders. But if you do that you will get air in the lines. Bleeding the brakes themselves wouldn't be a big deal but the ABS circuits are another deal altogether. Need a proper scan tool... and I can't say I have ever done that procedure. The trick they use to avoid that is barely loosen all the lines and "massage" them to move the unit. That's what I'd like to see.
Last edited by raylo; 07-22-2018 at 12:47 PM.
07-22-2018, 01:42 PM
#9
It's not 15 and up for Procharger. basically if your car has an extra horizontal cooler infront of the radiator, you can't get the horizontal procharger intercooler for obvious reasons.
I have a horizontal intercooler in my 2015 z51
I have a horizontal intercooler in my 2015 z51
07-22-2018, 01:43 PM
#10
07-22-2018, 02:17 PM
#11
Drifting
We hear you Bruno, but.... the Procharger site and the tech that I spoke to at Procharger says 2015 and up can only use vertical. It sounds like they are clueless on this but at least one member who ordered horizontal from the vendor had Procharger substitute a vertical intercooler based entirely on the model year submitted with the order. Not sure how one could reconcile this 100% to get what you want. See post #3 in this thread: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-question.html
07-22-2018, 07:49 PM
#12
I'm Batman..
Pro Mechanic
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Ant
07-22-2018, 08:03 PM
#13
Drifting
LOL... Yeah, you do some good work and if it took you a couple of hours that makes me doubt it is "easy". Hard to tell if some other posts about it are accurate reports or sales pitches. ;-) Also looks like you have a good work space unlike some of us with 1-car closets. I swapped a cam out in there on my Camaro and would not try that again in my cramped space. Supercharger is probably doable, though.
Lol yea it wasn’t awful or anything. It was just not a 10 minute job, at least not on my 2014. If you’ve seen anything I’ve done though you know that I have some “perfectionistic” tendencies so the fact that it took me a couple hours may not be the same for everyone. YMMV..
Ant
Lol yea it wasn’t awful or anything. It was just not a 10 minute job, at least not on my 2014. If you’ve seen anything I’ve done though you know that I have some “perfectionistic” tendencies so the fact that it took me a couple hours may not be the same for everyone. YMMV..
Ant
07-23-2018, 10:51 AM
#14
Melting Slicks
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LOL... Yeah, you do some good work and if it took you a couple of hours that makes me doubt it is "easy". Hard to tell if some other posts about it are accurate reports or sales pitches. ;-) Also looks like you have a good work space unlike some of us with 1-car closets. I swapped a cam out in there on my Camaro and would not try that again in my cramped space. Supercharger is probably doable, though.
trust me when I got to the stage to do the ABS movement I was rather nervous about the procedure. Fortunately for me loosening the lines and pushing/ pulling forward while moving each line gently worked like a charm and was done before I knew it. Not a sales pitch for A&A. Every car is different and everyone’s experience doing it will vary greatly as it has been documented in numerous threads on the form. Trust me I had other difficulties doing my install that others either didn’t encounter at all or was simply just not an issue for them. Andy at A&A and Numerous fellow forum members including Ant have helped me along the way.
07-23-2018, 12:24 PM
#15
Racer
Thread Starter
Ok my next question is in regards to the A&A I see V1,3,7, T,SI AND YSI.
Edit:
Just spoke to Josh at A&A and will be going with the YSI with a 7.65 lower and a 3.6 upper for now(no meth yet) along with 2" headers. That should keep me around 700 ish for now and when I want to go over 1000 it will be less work. My bottom end can take it all day but I'm guessing past that= new clutch/flywheel, torque tube/shafts etc...
Edit:
Just spoke to Josh at A&A and will be going with the YSI with a 7.65 lower and a 3.6 upper for now(no meth yet) along with 2" headers. That should keep me around 700 ish for now and when I want to go over 1000 it will be less work. My bottom end can take it all day but I'm guessing past that= new clutch/flywheel, torque tube/shafts etc...
Last edited by Ghostnotes; 07-23-2018 at 12:25 PM.
07-23-2018, 02:45 PM
#16
Drifting
This is the detail I am having trouble with. I am not sure how you can bend any of the 6 individual lines one at a time when they are all connected to the block on one end and hard connected on the other ends. Seems you'd have to bend them pretty much simultaneously. I guess maybe if you remove the clips you can get enough freedom to act on one at a time at least a little bit?
07-23-2018, 05:30 PM
#17
Melting Slicks
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This is the detail I am having trouble with. I am not sure how you can bend any of the 6 individual lines one at a time when they are all connected to the block on one end and hard connected on the other ends. Seems you'd have to bend them pretty much simultaneously. I guess maybe if you remove the clips you can get enough freedom to act on one at a time at least a little bit?
i pushed/ pulled the whole block keeping note if any of the lines looked out of line, when I did notice a line not conforming with the group I adjusted that line to get back in line with the group and continued to push or pull, which ever way gave me the best leverage. It really isn’t as difficult as I think it’s being made out to be is my point. Yes I think it would have been great if this was not needed to be done, but to gain 100+ rwhp you have to crack a few eggs and sometimes go out of your comfort zone. That’s the beauty of have multiple choices of kits to choose from. No matter which kit you ultimately decide on you will be happy with the gained power.
07-24-2018, 07:36 AM
#18
Drifting
Yeah, the 4 small lines on the top I think would be simple. With the direction the block moves those would pretty much just rotate which should be easy, especially with the nuts backed off a bit. But the 2 big lines that come into the body from the fender side I think would be difficult. If the block moves towards the firewall (and maybe toward the fender a bit?) those essentially need to be shortened and there isn't a lot of freedom to bend them.
i pushed/ pulled the whole block keeping note if any of the lines looked out of line, when I did notice a line not conforming with the group I adjusted that line to get back in line with the group and continued to push or pull, which ever way gave me the best leverage. It really isn’t as difficult as I think it’s being made out to be is my point.
07-24-2018, 07:46 AM
#19
Instructor
I had a similar experience to chefcg1 in moving the ABS except it took a me couple of tries and probably more like 30 minutes of pushing and pulling and adjusting the lines. The first try resulted in moving it just enough to get the blower in, but it was rubbing on the ABS. I thought it wouldn't move any move so I called Josh at A&A and he re-assured me that it would move more. On the second attempt, I put a little more umph into it and got the extra clearance needed so it doesn't come close to touching the blower.
07-24-2018, 12:28 PM
#20
Melting Slicks
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I had a similar experience to chefcg1 in moving the ABS except it took a me couple of tries and probably more like 30 minutes of pushing and pulling and adjusting the lines. The first try resulted in moving it just enough to get the blower in, but it was rubbing on the ABS. I thought it wouldn't move any move so I called Josh at A&A and he re-assured me that it would move more. On the second attempt, I put a little more umph into it and got the extra clearance needed so it doesn't come close to touching the blower.
