High-Po C7 vs Nismo GTR
11-26-2013, 11:34 AM
#41
Of course the Z06 will come with a DCT transmission. It has to. What other cars in its league are still offered with a stick-shift transmission? ZERO.
I drove manual-transmission cars exclusively from the age of 17 to 38. When I got my first DCT car I realized I would never own a manual again. It is EVERY bit as fun and rewarding as a manual and people who say otherwise have never driven a true DCT-equipped car.
BTW the GT-R Nismo that set the 7.08 lap time is a factory car with factory options. It's not a "ringer". And no, there is absolutely no way the Z06 is going to match that time unless GM decides to make the Z06 either mid-engined or AWD (or both). And we know that ain't happening this generation.
I drove manual-transmission cars exclusively from the age of 17 to 38. When I got my first DCT car I realized I would never own a manual again. It is EVERY bit as fun and rewarding as a manual and people who say otherwise have never driven a true DCT-equipped car.
BTW the GT-R Nismo that set the 7.08 lap time is a factory car with factory options. It's not a "ringer". And no, there is absolutely no way the Z06 is going to match that time unless GM decides to make the Z06 either mid-engined or AWD (or both). And we know that ain't happening this generation.
11-26-2013, 11:40 AM
#42
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11-26-2013, 11:41 AM
#43
You seriously believe that?
You honestly think the High Powered C7 won't be able to find 11 seconds on the Ring, over the out going ZR1?
Considering the GTR Track Edition already got beat by a C7 sting ray around Willow Springs.
Yeah not worried about that overweight pig in the slightest. One 550 hp C7 and the Godzilla would be crying all over again.
Seriously even the Viper has a 7:12.
You honestly think the High Powered C7 won't be able to find 11 seconds on the Ring, over the out going ZR1?
Considering the GTR Track Edition already got beat by a C7 sting ray around Willow Springs.
Yeah not worried about that overweight pig in the slightest. One 550 hp C7 and the Godzilla would be crying all over again.
Seriously even the Viper has a 7:12.
Last edited by Aaron Keating; 11-26-2013 at 11:45 AM.
11-26-2013, 11:43 AM
#44
Scraping the splitter.
But I agree with you (to an extent) and would like to see the high performance variant of the C7 available with some version of an automatic. And I track a 600 rwhp, 6-speed manual car on little 285 tires...so the inability to drive one isn't the reason.
S.
11-26-2013, 11:54 AM
#45
Melting Slicks
I do not understand the fear or distaste for a DCT. All high end race cars today have either a DCT or a sequential manual, and the sequential is generally limited to the lesser racing vehicles.
Why would anyone want to go with obsolete technology? How about learning to pace yourself to preserve those drum brakes?
I drove a 2009 Cayman S PDK a few years back and I can say it was an absolute blast to drive. Could you imagine a 600-plus HP Corvette with a DCT?
I have enjoyed driving my older Z06 on the track with its manual tranny, and learning to heel-and-toe, etc., but using the paddles and really focusing on the apex and putting the power down without worrying about the shifts, well, I can hardly wait!!!
Why would anyone want to go with obsolete technology? How about learning to pace yourself to preserve those drum brakes?
I drove a 2009 Cayman S PDK a few years back and I can say it was an absolute blast to drive. Could you imagine a 600-plus HP Corvette with a DCT?
I have enjoyed driving my older Z06 on the track with its manual tranny, and learning to heel-and-toe, etc., but using the paddles and really focusing on the apex and putting the power down without worrying about the shifts, well, I can hardly wait!!!
11-26-2013, 11:57 AM
#46
Drifting
Thread Starter
No, it was not with a tune.
But I agree with you (to an extent) and would like to see the high performance variant of the C7 available with some version of an automatic. And I track a 600 rwhp, 6-speed manual car on little 285 tires...so the inability to drive one isn't the reason.
S.
But I agree with you (to an extent) and would like to see the high performance variant of the C7 available with some version of an automatic. And I track a 600 rwhp, 6-speed manual car on little 285 tires...so the inability to drive one isn't the reason.
S.
11-26-2013, 12:00 PM
#47
Drifting
Thread Starter
We are seeing a shift to DCTs for two reasons. Fisrt, in a world where nano-seconds are precieved as 10 minute improvements on a track, company bragging rights are established. Second, auto companies benefit from both the younger and retired older generation of folks who want an auto. Companies are knocking off two birds with one stone so to speak. Old people like PDK so they can pretend to be seeking performance, but they honestly just want an auto so they don't have to shift. The youger folks will prefer the DCTs for the nano-second bragging rights off the line and around a track. The world is left with a few late 20s to middle aged folks who still want a manual...and sadly, that is not enough of a reason for companies to keep them around. This is the reality of the situation. So when team Corvette figures out a way to introduce a DCT to the corvette in a cost effective manner, they too will abandon the traditional manual. When that day comes, I will not buy that generation vette...and GM won't care becasue people like me, who want a manual, will be part of a significant minority.
Save the Stick.
Save the Stick.
By the time the manual is abandoned in the Corvette I'm guessing there won't be any other high performance manuals available to buy either.
11-26-2013, 12:20 PM
#48
Of course the Z06 will come with a DCT transmission. It has to. What other cars in its league are still offered with a stick-shift transmission? ZERO.
I drove manual-transmission cars exclusively from the age of 17 to 38. When I got my first DCT car I realized I would never own a manual again. It is EVERY bit as fun and rewarding as a manual and people who say otherwise have never driven a true DCT-equipped car.
BTW the GT-R Nismo that set the 7.08 lap time is a factory car with factory options. It's not a "ringer". And no, there is absolutely no way the Z06 is going to match that time unless GM decides to make the Z06 either mid-engined or AWD (or both). And we know that ain't happening this generation.
I drove manual-transmission cars exclusively from the age of 17 to 38. When I got my first DCT car I realized I would never own a manual again. It is EVERY bit as fun and rewarding as a manual and people who say otherwise have never driven a true DCT-equipped car.
BTW the GT-R Nismo that set the 7.08 lap time is a factory car with factory options. It's not a "ringer". And no, there is absolutely no way the Z06 is going to match that time unless GM decides to make the Z06 either mid-engined or AWD (or both). And we know that ain't happening this generation.
Funny that a pro (Lewis Hamilton) elected to order his Pagani Zonda with a manual because he said it would be more fun. Guess he only worries about milliseconds on tracks where he earns a living. The average Joe worries about milliseconds on the street where it doesn't even matter.
11-26-2013, 12:34 PM
#49
Drifting
Thread Starter
The answer for other cars still offered with a stick-shift is not ZERO. The Audi R8 comes with a gated manual and the SRT Viper is manual only at the moment. Personally, I prefer a manual for street & backroad use. My F12 M6 had the DCT and although shift times are so fast they're seamless... it's not as fun as a manual to me.
Funny that a pro (Lewis Hamilton) elected to order his Pagani Zonda with a manual because he said it would be more fun. Guess he only worries about milliseconds on tracks where he earns a living. The average Joe worries about milliseconds on the street where it doesn't even matter.
Funny that a pro (Lewis Hamilton) elected to order his Pagani Zonda with a manual because he said it would be more fun. Guess he only worries about milliseconds on tracks where he earns a living. The average Joe worries about milliseconds on the street where it doesn't even matter.
11-26-2013, 12:38 PM
#50
11-26-2013, 12:53 PM
#51
Speaking of insecure, you must be wise enough to know different people have preferences thus own different cars. It appears that you simply cannot own a Porsche and enjoy it but feel you need approval (are insecure) from others to justify owning your car?
11-26-2013, 01:01 PM
#52
Drifting
Thread Starter
11-26-2013, 01:06 PM
#53
Burning Brakes
When I was in engineering school, I learned to use a slide-rule (Pickett) to do calculations in mechanics of materials, CHEMISTRY and PHYSICS. Keeping track of the decimal place in the last two was an art form. So is rowing a stick-shift. NOBODY was happier than me to get a Texas Instruments SR50 calculator for my sophomore year X-Mas present. (Thanks, Mom and Dad, RIP.)
An auto can be faster AND more responsive, depending on how it is implemented. The torque-converter auto in the C7 ain't bad, but a sequential or a DCT (which originated in Panzer tanks) is probably on its way. They won't be smooth or cheap, however.
It will be interesting to see what GM comes up with - the auto-rev matching, if it is a precursor to anything, probably points to a sequential, which, in a straight-line, will beat a DCT every time. Remember, even a DCT is a COMPROMISE to smooth out the shifts. A full-Monty Stingray don't need no stinking shift smoothing. Look for something like the EMCO box with noise-control !!
An auto can be faster AND more responsive, depending on how it is implemented. The torque-converter auto in the C7 ain't bad, but a sequential or a DCT (which originated in Panzer tanks) is probably on its way. They won't be smooth or cheap, however.
It will be interesting to see what GM comes up with - the auto-rev matching, if it is a precursor to anything, probably points to a sequential, which, in a straight-line, will beat a DCT every time. Remember, even a DCT is a COMPROMISE to smooth out the shifts. A full-Monty Stingray don't need no stinking shift smoothing. Look for something like the EMCO box with noise-control !!
11-26-2013, 01:10 PM
#54
Another post of you slamming Corvette owners or corvettes on the CF forum. Honestly, what do you hope to achieve by doing this? Have you considered that people that own Corvettes simply like their cars and like them better then yours but have the decency to not try to point out to you why your car is not as nice to them & the reasons they purchased a Corvette instead of a Porsche? Is it possible for you to drive your Porsche & simply talk to other Porsche owners instead of annoying people that do not want to hear your fanboy comments? Do you honestly think Corvette owners log onto the CF to read you endlessly try to slam Corvettes?
Speaking of insecure, you must be wise enough to know different people have preferences thus own different cars. It appears that you simply cannot own a Porsche and enjoy it but feel you need approval (are insecure) from others to justify owning your car?
Speaking of insecure, you must be wise enough to know different people have preferences thus own different cars. It appears that you simply cannot own a Porsche and enjoy it but feel you need approval (are insecure) from others to justify owning your car?
I didn't even mention Porsches in this thread. Secondly, I asked a question: "Are most Corvette owners this insecure?" Thirdly, now that you've interjected yourself via some mysterious argument about a marque I never mentioned, I'll ask you a question: Are you so insecure about being beaten in street racing that you made your transmission choice because of it?
11-26-2013, 01:20 PM
#55
The answer for other cars still offered with a stick-shift is not ZERO. The Audi R8 comes with a gated manual and the SRT Viper is manual only at the moment. Personally, I prefer a manual for street & backroad use. My F12 M6 had the DCT and although shift times are so fast they're seamless... it's not as fun as a manual to me.
Funny that a pro (Lewis Hamilton) elected to order his Pagani Zonda with a manual because he said it would be more fun. Guess he only worries about milliseconds on tracks where he earns a living. The average Joe worries about milliseconds on the street where it doesn't even matter.
Funny that a pro (Lewis Hamilton) elected to order his Pagani Zonda with a manual because he said it would be more fun. Guess he only worries about milliseconds on tracks where he earns a living. The average Joe worries about milliseconds on the street where it doesn't even matter.
You hit the nail on the head!! it's the fun factor of YOU are driving the car and not the other way round..there's no doubt the DCT is going to be quicker but nowhere near as fun..I guess what GM should do with the Hi-Perf C7 is make both available.
11-26-2013, 01:21 PM
#56
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That story and video was in a Viper thread were the Viper owner was complimenting how well the C7's came off the line with automatics. The 11.4 car was tuned and says so in the print under the video. Might even have had headers but don't quote me on that one.
11-26-2013, 01:22 PM
#57
What are we talking about here, drag racing or road course? Has everybody forgotten history? The C6 was frequently tested against all kinds of cars on the track and it lost in drag racing but would win (usually) on the road course with a manual transmission against DCT competition. It was winning with chassis balance and total grip, not horsepower and fast shifts.
11-26-2013, 01:25 PM
#58
Drifting
Thread Starter
Another post of you slamming Corvette owners or corvettes on the CF forum. Honestly, what do you hope to achieve by doing this? Have you considered that people that own Corvettes simply like their cars and like them better then yours but have the decency to not try to point out to you why your car is not as nice to them & the reasons they purchased a Corvette instead of a Porsche? Is it possible for you to drive your Porsche & simply talk to other Porsche owners instead of annoying people that do not want to hear your fanboy comments? Do you honestly think Corvette owners log onto the CF to read you endlessly try to slam Corvettes?
Speaking of insecure, you must be wise enough to know different people have preferences thus own different cars. It appears that you simply cannot own a Porsche and enjoy it but feel you need approval (are insecure) from others to justify owning your car?
Speaking of insecure, you must be wise enough to know different people have preferences thus own different cars. It appears that you simply cannot own a Porsche and enjoy it but feel you need approval (are insecure) from others to justify owning your car?
11-26-2013, 01:31 PM
#59
Drifting
Thread Starter
I saw an 11.4 non-Z51 auto that had a "tune only," not sure if this is the same one Snorman's referring to. Snorman can correct me but I think he got 11.5-something with his bone stock auto? I know there was at least an 11.6.
11-26-2013, 01:32 PM
#60
Of course the Z06 will come with a DCT transmission. It has to. What other cars in its league are still offered with a stick-shift transmission? ZERO.
I drove manual-transmission cars exclusively from the age of 17 to 38. When I got my first DCT car I realized I would never own a manual again. It is EVERY bit as fun and rewarding as a manual and people who say otherwise have never driven a true DCT-equipped car.
BTW the GT-R Nismo that set the 7.08 lap time is a factory car with factory options. It's not a "ringer". And no, there is absolutely no way the Z06 is going to match that time unless GM decides to make the Z06 either mid-engined or AWD (or both). And we know that ain't happening this generation.
I drove manual-transmission cars exclusively from the age of 17 to 38. When I got my first DCT car I realized I would never own a manual again. It is EVERY bit as fun and rewarding as a manual and people who say otherwise have never driven a true DCT-equipped car.
BTW the GT-R Nismo that set the 7.08 lap time is a factory car with factory options. It's not a "ringer". And no, there is absolutely no way the Z06 is going to match that time unless GM decides to make the Z06 either mid-engined or AWD (or both). And we know that ain't happening this generation.
Cool story , Brah.