New GM super charger patent pending 12-5-13
#21
Safety Car
How do you know where redline is? Are you just guessing as a percentage of how far the gauge goes (up to 12psi)? Don't forget that these gauge clusters are digital, and that "12" could be changed to any other number very easily. It's not like it's printed on.
Also, you have no way to know what boost would be required to reach 660 HP without knowing all the other specs of the engine such as displacement and efficiency of the entire setup.
Also, you have no way to know what boost would be required to reach 660 HP without knowing all the other specs of the engine such as displacement and efficiency of the entire setup.
I'm not guessing, the marks are equally spaced and follow the ZR1 format precisely.
Any pixel can be changed on a digital cluster, I'm sure on some settings the boost gauge is gone.
Based on what the aftermarket has done so far it seems impossible to reach 660hp with only 8.5 psi knowing what an OEM car requires in terms of combustion stability.
While I haven't seen the new Z06 in person, I think I have better data to support an LSA like engine with maybe a 30hp jump in power, than a ZR1 like engine with 30 hp jump in power.
We were all underwhelmed with the the LT1 power output. Why go through the same bad experience with the LT4? I try to implement learning in my expectation model.
#22
Melting Slicks
Boost is a measure of restriction. You are assuming way more than anyone except a GM engineer knows at this point by saying X psi = Y HP. For example, if the engine is a 6.2L 1psi of boost may be equal to 30HP, but if all things are equal on a 7.0L, that same 1psi May equal 50 HP. And that's not even getting into flow capabilities of the heads and intake manifold, or cam profile, altitude, etc.. There are so many foolish assumptions you are making right now.
#23
Safety Car
Foolish ok. It make more sense to make an example of a 7.0L boosted LT4? The last generation went with the 6.2L for boost. Porsche similarly keeps a thicker sidewall, and therefore we didn't see a 4.0L turbo engine but the smaller variant.
Ford indeed went with a higher displacement engine and boost but they are using a proprietary technology. Knowing how tight GM is with the purse I don't think they'll license it from Ford for the whole Z06 run.
If say the Z06 will run more boost than the pre-production model captured in the pic above, then it will surely need forged parts everywhere ZR1 like. The cost on a Z06 will be well above the historic prices. No way GM is starting the new Z06 at six figures.
Ford indeed went with a higher displacement engine and boost but they are using a proprietary technology. Knowing how tight GM is with the purse I don't think they'll license it from Ford for the whole Z06 run.
If say the Z06 will run more boost than the pre-production model captured in the pic above, then it will surely need forged parts everywhere ZR1 like. The cost on a Z06 will be well above the historic prices. No way GM is starting the new Z06 at six figures.
#24
Melting Slicks
I'm not saying it would need more boost to make more power. In fact, I am saying it could be the opposite. If the heads flow awesome, even if they do keep it a 6.2L, power could be higher than the C6 ZR1. Keep in mind also the DI implementation as well...
But let's assume for a minute that the LT4 will be a DI variant of the lS9, and assume this new supercharger in the patent is not used, and assume they change the boost to 15psi redline.. All they would need is forged pistons. That's less than $1000 extra, and that's aftermarket pricing. Surely with GM's volume they can manufacture them for far far less.
But, I digress... This thread should be about the new patented direct drive centri supercharger.
But let's assume for a minute that the LT4 will be a DI variant of the lS9, and assume this new supercharger in the patent is not used, and assume they change the boost to 15psi redline.. All they would need is forged pistons. That's less than $1000 extra, and that's aftermarket pricing. Surely with GM's volume they can manufacture them for far far less.
But, I digress... This thread should be about the new patented direct drive centri supercharger.
#25
Safety Car
Bench tests have been performed on the new head, it flows just a small tad better than the ls3. Valves are smaller. We've already taken DI into consideration, since we're assuming a 30hp gain over the last motor, seems to be all it's good for.
LS9 had these upgrades over the LSA, and they are an upgrade to the LT1 block as well:
forged aluminum pistons
forged titanium rods
forged steel main baring caps
titanium intake valves
Then there were the usual upgrades to the supercharger and all related bits, more bolts in some areas, additional machining, dry sump, etc.
You want more power than the outgoing LS9, I think you need all the above.
OEM parts have to pass additional tests compared to aftermarket bits. You can have a forged aftermarket piston that's cheap but will slap around in cold climates. There is more to a forging than the ability to take pounding while hot. Some aftermarket forged pistons are a huge amount of money. The elephant in the room is the rod, and the rod bolt.
LS9 had these upgrades over the LSA, and they are an upgrade to the LT1 block as well:
forged aluminum pistons
forged titanium rods
forged steel main baring caps
titanium intake valves
Then there were the usual upgrades to the supercharger and all related bits, more bolts in some areas, additional machining, dry sump, etc.
You want more power than the outgoing LS9, I think you need all the above.
OEM parts have to pass additional tests compared to aftermarket bits. You can have a forged aftermarket piston that's cheap but will slap around in cold climates. There is more to a forging than the ability to take pounding while hot. Some aftermarket forged pistons are a huge amount of money. The elephant in the room is the rod, and the rod bolt.
Last edited by SBC_and_a_stick; 12-25-2013 at 08:49 PM.