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Old 12-09-2013, 02:08 PM
  #41  
ChucksZ06
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People say they want a race car but they don't want race cars, they just want to be able to regurgitate the "Race car for the street" garbage.
So true. It is the Ferrari/Porsche syndrome. FPS for all the pretenders. ha ha
Old 12-09-2013, 07:10 PM
  #42  
Eric G
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JoeC5-

Where are you getting these weight numbers for the fenders from? I always had a total savings of 15 pounds in my head, but when I look it up, total savings of 26.5 is what I come up with. This is linked through the C6 faq from an article in a composites magazine.

http://www.compositesworld.com/hpc/i...ovember/1087/1

Total savings of 26.5 means approximately 13 pounds saved per fender, pretty extreme, meaning they would have had to have been at least 20 pounds in plastic, regardless, that's what it says here and can't find anything else. Additionally, the proper comparison would be between a Z06 plastic fender and a Z06 composite, not a C6 plastic fender.

Maybe it was a 12 pound savings and the magazine messed up? Still significantly more than what you are saying. Just like to see where you are getting this from.
Old 12-09-2013, 07:28 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by NytmereZ
I don't call a large displacement pushrod motor that all have valve train issues a landmark they have been around since the 60's, I sold my Z06 within 6 months of ownership, knowing it was a ticking time bomb .
GM may just go with 2 models, they don't need so many different models , the C7 z should smoke the ZR1 anyway, so there won't be a need for a ZR1, by doing that GM will go back to its roots as 100k is to much to pay for a corvette.
I bought my ZR1 at a dealer auction and certainly didn't pay anything near 100k, I sold 2 months later at a profit.
You are a god...in every sense of the word...lmmfao...and you now drive a shoe...why are you here...
Old 12-09-2013, 11:43 PM
  #44  
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I think they can also drop weight with thinner glass and removing sound deadening like in the c5 Z06.

Also everyone be forewarned user NytmereZ has been a jerk and troll in C6 Z06 section for years. Always bad mouths Corvettes. Save your self the trouble with this "baller".
Old 12-10-2013, 01:42 PM
  #45  
OnPoint
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The new Z I bet will weigh 3500 pounds.

And outperform all C6 variants while doing so.
Old 12-10-2013, 04:28 PM
  #46  
Rapid Fred
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Originally Posted by 1985 Corvette
If GM really wanted to, they could get this bad boy below 3,000 lbs but there would be some big sacrifices. Personally, if I could have a 600hp+ plus Vette at around 2,800 lbs with manual seats, no plushy interior leathers or carpet, lexan windows, no AC, and a Hollinger-like sequential trans, I'd be happy. Who needs AC when you can slide the windows down anyway for airflow?

Unfortunately, the majority of future C7 Z buyers are going to want mega watt stereos, heated/cooled everything, aromatic leathers, and the precious bluetooth-level tech hardware. People say they want a race car but they don't want race cars, they just want to be able to regurgitate the "Race car for the street" garbage. I think it would make yet another bold, great, and unexpected statement for the brand if they released a Vette like that. Just take the old L88 approach to weed out the typical big bravado buyers from those that REALLY want a hard edged track Vette.
But can't you rip that stuff out yourself and build your track beast, thus allowing GM to sell more Z06's to their target demographic? I doubt you would prefer Porsche's approach of building a stripper and then charging much more for the privilege (I know they are not really doing that now, but they did exactly that in the not-so-distant past...)
Old 12-10-2013, 04:29 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Eric G
JoeC5-

Where are you getting these weight numbers for the fenders from? I always had a total savings of 15 pounds in my head, but when I look it up, total savings of 26.5 is what I come up with. This is linked through the C6 faq from an article in a composites magazine.

http://www.compositesworld.com/hpc/i...ovember/1087/1

Total savings of 26.5 means approximately 13 pounds saved per fender, pretty extreme, meaning they would have had to have been at least 20 pounds in plastic, regardless, that's what it says here and can't find anything else. Additionally, the proper comparison would be between a Z06 plastic fender and a Z06 composite, not a C6 plastic fender.

Maybe it was a 12 pound savings and the magazine messed up? Still significantly more than what you are saying. Just like to see where you are getting this from.
GM use to have a link that showed all the weights of the various components, but it has disappeared. It was for recycling the C6.
here is some additional weights I got from that link.

Z06 hood 23.1 lbs.
ZR1 hood=12 lbs
Z06 front fascia= 14.3 lbs.
Z06 rear glass=23 lbs.
fuel tanks(2)=24.71 lbs.
windshield=31.94 lbs.
door glass(2)=15.52 lbs.
door(SMC)(2)=28.35 lbs.
door weatherstrip(2)=1.59 lbs
windshirld weatherstip=2.47 lbs.
rear hatch weatherstrip=1.87 lbs
Front bumper energy absorber=3.66 lbs.
front fender brake cooler duct(2)=.73 lbs.
Z06 rear qtr panels(2)=15.21 lbs.
rear bumper fascia=14.4 lbs.
rear bumper energy absorber=3.31 lbs.
rear brake cooling duct(2)=2.43 lbs.
rear wheel opening molding (splash guards)(2)=.82 lbs.
seat lower foam(2)=2.95 lbs.
seat center foam(2)=4.17 lbs.
seat upper foam(2)=3.26 lbs.
seat belt webbing(2)=.66 lbs.
seat frame back(SMC)(2)=13.16 lbs.
hood weatherstrip=.74 lbs.
master cylinder reservoir=.33 lbs
valve cover shield(2)=2.54 lbs
power steering pump reservoir=.53 lbs.
plastic side radator tanks(2)=1.72 lbs.
plastic radiator bracket=1.5 lbs.
radiator cooling fan frame=3.31 lbs.

it even gave the weight of the mercury used in the headlights.

Last edited by JoesC5; 12-10-2013 at 04:36 PM.
Old 12-10-2013, 04:44 PM
  #48  
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Joe, you have a better handle on the weight stats than I do, but I'm having a hard time believeing some of the minimal savings you quote.

On my 2005 C6 Coupe, going from the stock wheelset with runcraps, to track wheels (CCW 18x10, 18x11) and non-RF tires (Toyo R888 295 / 335 rear), dropped 6lb a wheel in front and 10lb a wheel rear, despite going to much wider wheels and tires. That's 32lb total, all unsprung weight and it is very noticeable.

And there is no way carbon rotors save just a few lb - they are a fraction of the weight of an iron setup. I weighed a ZR1 rotor at Charlie's shop and it was something like 5lb, versus 25lb for an equivalent-sized iron rotor. The only way I can see such little weight savings is if they were running a steel hat or a much heavier caliper.

EDIT------------------
I just checked with my shop: Z06 (front) iron rotor assy: 26lb, ZR1/Z07 front rotor assy: 12lb (more than I said, but still light). Huge difference in weight which adds up to 28lb for just the front axle, and probably nearly 50lb total. Again, this is unsprung weight as well so it counts 3x what chassis weight does.

Last edited by TTRotary; 12-10-2013 at 04:58 PM.
Old 12-10-2013, 05:07 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by TTRotary
Joe, you have a better handle on the weight stats than I do, but I'm having a hard time believeing some of the minimal savings you quote.

On my 2005 C6 Coupe, going from the stock wheelset with runcraps, to track wheels (CCW 18x10, 18x11) and non-RF tires (Toyo R888 295 / 335 rear), dropped 6lb a wheel in front and 10lb a wheel rear, despite going to much wider wheels and tires. That's 32lb total, all unsprung weight and it is very noticeable.

And there is no way carbon rotors save just a few lb - they are a fraction of the weight of an iron setup. I weighed a ZR1 rotor at Charlie's shop and it was something like 5lb, versus 25lb for an equivalent-sized iron rotor. The only way I can see such little weight savings is if they were running a steel hat or a much heavier caliper.
The disc were lighter but the calipers were heavier.

ZR1 front rotor was 10.3 lbs lighter than the Z06's front rotor but the ZR1's front caliper weighed 4,68 lbs more thus there was a net savings of 5.62 lbs or 11.24 lbs for the front.

The ZR1 rear rotor was 3.7 lbs lighter than the Z06's rear rotor but the ZR1's rear caliper weighed.72 lbs more for a net savings of 2.98 lbs or 5.96 lb savings for the rear.

Added together there was a net savings of 17.28 lbs.

Then with the added weight of the heavier weight of the larger wheels and tires, used on theZ51, the weight savings per corner wasn't there.

For the wheels and tires, I was comparing weight savings for a production C7 Z06 that will most likely be using run 19/20 run flat tires like the C6 ZR1 and 19/20 aluminum wheels like the C6 ZR1 and not the smaller, lighter C6 Z06 wheels/tires.

The additional wheel/tire weight nearly killed the 17.28 weight savings from using the lighter rotors on the C6 ZR1 vs the C6 Z06.

I'm speculating that the base C7 Z06 will not have carbon ceramic rotors as standard, but will have the larger wheels/tires than the C6 Z06 thus will gain weight there. Carbon ceramic brakes might be an extra cost option though.

EDIT: My weight for the Z06 and ZR1 were from those that actually weighed them.

According to Racing Brakes.....

Z06 front 26#, rear 20#
ZR1 front 13#, rear 16#,

remember that the rear rotors have the larger hat section for the e-brake, thus not nearly the weight savings as in the front.

Last edited by JoesC5; 12-10-2013 at 06:40 PM.
Old 12-10-2013, 06:32 PM
  #50  
NytmereZ
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Originally Posted by troller399
You are a god...in every sense of the word...lmmfao...and you now drive a shoe...why are you here...
, no I'm not a god, I'm just a guy who likes cars, who buys fast cars(and bikes) regardless of brand, and will be in a C7 Z, which is the 1st corvette I have been excited to buy.
The C6 ZR1 was one of the fastest stock cars I've ever owned, but the look of the C6 in general was bland, the C7 is as superior to the C6 as the C5 was to the C4, and yes I owned both.
You are obviously butt hurt about how much better the C7 is...get over it
You are a NOOB to me why so serious?
Old 12-10-2013, 06:49 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by JoesC5
The disc were lighter but the calipers were heavier.

ZR1 front rotor was 10.3 lbs lighter than the Z06's front rotor but the ZR1's front caliper weighed 4,68 lbs more thus there was a net savings of 5.62 lbs or 11.24 lbs for the front.

The ZR1 rear rotor was 3.7 lbs lighter than the Z06's rear rotor but the ZR1's rear caliper weighed.72 lbs more for a net savings of 2.98 lbs or 5.96 lb savings for the rear.

Added together there was a net savings of 17.28 lbs.

Then with the added weight of the heavier weight of the larger wheels and tires, used on theZ51, the weight savings per corner wasn't there.

For the wheels and tires, I was comparing weight savings for a production C7 Z06 that will most likely be using run 19/20 run flat tires like the C6 ZR1 and 19/20 aluminum wheels like the C6 ZR1 and not the smaller, lighter C6 Z06 wheels/tires.

The additional wheel/tire weight nearly killed the 17.28 weight savings from using the lighter rotors on the C6 ZR1 vs the C6 Z06.

I'm speculating that the base C7 Z06 will not have carbon ceramic rotors as standard, but will have the larger wheels/tires than the C6 Z06 thus will gain weight there. Carbon ceramic brakes might be an extra cost option though.

EDIT: My weight for the Z06 and ZR1 were from those that actually weighed them.

According to Racing Brakes.....

Z06 front 26#, rear 20#
ZR1 front 13#, rear 16#,

remember that the rear rotors have the larger hat section for the e-brake, thus not nearly the weight savings as in the front.
The additional caliper weight is nuts. Perhaps they had to go to heavier pistons since I suspect the carbon rotor radiates more heat back into the piston and caliper (and fluid). And I wonder if the e-brake in the C7 does away with the need for a drum. I never understood why this was necessary anyway.

In any case, they should be able to do much better than this on overall weight savings. All the stock wheels are boat-anchors and the tires too.
Old 12-10-2013, 07:41 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by TTRotary
The additional caliper weight is nuts. Perhaps they had to go to heavier pistons since I suspect the carbon rotor radiates more heat back into the piston and caliper (and fluid). And I wonder if the e-brake in the C7 does away with the need for a drum. I never understood why this was necessary anyway.

In any case, they should be able to do much better than this on overall weight savings. All the stock wheels are boat-anchors and the tires too.
It would be interesting to see what the C7 Z51 rotors weigh and if the rear rotors have e brake drums.

EDIT: did a little searching and the C7still uses the drum in the rear rotor for the e brake. Also found that the C7 Z51 rotors have an 18% weight savings. Compared to the C6 Z06 that would be around 4.68 lbs for the front rotors.

Last edited by JoesC5; 12-10-2013 at 07:51 PM.
Old 12-10-2013, 07:51 PM
  #53  
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Nobody has even mentioned the frame.

The base C6 had a steel frame (421 lbs) the C6Z got a significant portion of it's weight reduction (136 lbs) from the use of an aluminum frame that weighed 285 lbs.

The base C7 already has an aluminum frame.

My bet, a NA C7 Z06 will be at least 100 lbs heavier than a base C7 (so around 3550) and IF they come out with a S/C C7 ZR! it will be more like 200 lbs heavier than the base C7 (so around 3650) if not even heavier.

Consider that the C6 ZR1 came in at 190 lbs more than the C6 Z06 and the base C7 starts life 100 lbs heavier than the C6 ZR1.

Bank on it, there is no way an Z model of C7 will be even close to the weight of the Z model C6s.

Cheers, Paul.
Old 12-10-2013, 07:56 PM
  #54  
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No way the C7Z comes in at 3650, even FI imo.
Old 12-10-2013, 08:18 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by sam90lx
No way the C7Z comes in at 3650, even FI imo.
Well the base C7 with aluminum frame is already 110 lbs heavier than the C6 ZR1 and the C6 ZR1 (which is just a built up Z06) put on 190 lbs to get there. So in fact 3650 lbs is a relatively conservative estimate because it assumes a NA C7 Z06 will weight the same as the base C7.

If you compare the weight of the base C6 (3210 lbs) to that of the C6 Z06 (3130 lbs) you see that without the weight reduction of the aluminum frame the C6Z would actually have ended up weighing more than the base C6 model.

Thing is, even at 3650 lbs a C7 ZR1 will be considerably lighter than many of the supercars out there that weigh 4000 or more like the Ferrari 612 and Lamborgini Aventador.

Cheers, Paul.
Old 12-10-2013, 08:55 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by MTIRC6Z
Well the base C7 with aluminum frame is already 110 lbs heavier than the C6 ZR1 and the C6 ZR1 (which is just a built up Z06) put on 190 lbs to get there. So in fact 3650 lbs is a relatively conservative estimate because it assumes a NA C7 Z06 will weight the same as the base C7.

If you compare the weight of the base C6 (3210 lbs) to that of the C6 Z06 (3130 lbs) you see that without the weight reduction of the aluminum frame the C6Z would actually have ended up weighing more than the base C6 model.

Thing is, even at 3650 lbs a C7 ZR1 will be considerably lighter than many of the supercars out there that weigh 4000 or more like the Ferrari 612 and Lamborgini Aventador.

Cheers, Paul.
Base C7 weighs 3298 and the C6 ZR1 weighs 3333 for a difference of 35 pounds lighter, not 110 pounds heavier as you state. GM hasn't released the curb weight of the C7 Z51 but I'm guessing it's around 3350-3370, or approximately 30 pounds heavier than the C6 ZR1, not 110 pounds heavier.

Mercedes SLS AMG GT Black is a supercar with it's 622 HP NA 6.2L engine and it weighs 3663 pounds. 5.89 pounds/HP

Then there is the Aston Martin vantage S with it's 565 HP NA 5.9L engine and it weighs 3410 pounds. 6.04 pounds/HP.

And the obsolete C6 ZR1 with it's 638 HP S/C 6.2L engine and it weighs 3333 pounds. 5.22 pounds/HP.

And my old obsolete C6 Z06 with it's 505 HP NA 7L engine and it weighs 3175 pounds. 6.29 pounds/HP.

I wouldn't be surprised if the C7 Z06 comes in at 3510 pounds so for a 6.29 LB/HP ratio it would have to have 560 HP.

To equal the ZR1, it would have to have 670 HP.

I see the C6 Z06 coming in at around 6.00 LB/HP, right between the SLS GT Black and the Vantage S.
Old 12-10-2013, 09:01 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by MTIRC6Z
Well the base C7 with aluminum frame is already 110 lbs heavier than the C6 ZR1 and the C6 ZR1 (which is just a built up Z06) put on 190 lbs to get there. So in fact 3650 lbs is a relatively conservative estimate because it assumes a NA C7 Z06 will weight the same as the base C7.

If you compare the weight of the base C6 (3210 lbs) to that of the C6 Z06 (3130 lbs) you see that without the weight reduction of the aluminum frame the C6Z would actually have ended up weighing more than the base C6 model.

Thing is, even at 3650 lbs a C7 ZR1 will be considerably lighter than many of the supercars out there that weigh 4000 or more like the Ferrari 612 and Lamborgini Aventador.

Cheers, Paul.
Interesting......

I guess they may use more carbon fiber (maybe even in the fame) and less sound insulation.......maybe lighter seats and mats....smaller gas tank....time will tell.

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Old 12-10-2013, 11:09 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Hemi Dave
It might be heavier....but

....it's going to outperform the C6 Z06....and prob the C6 ZR1 in every meaningful way...

.....There's good weight and bad weight....supercharger weight is good weight
You are likely right! It's what sells a lot of cars these days. And as the GTR has proven, even a bloated car with enough power and sophisticated electronics can make a grandmother look like a pro racer. Also as many report, it is artificial and feels like a game... no soul.

A Z06 without soul is no longer a Z06. However, I am also of the camp that believes that the Stingray name was wasted on a base car in an attempt to sell on glitz.

I do also understand, that in todays corporate society, the bottom line is the only thing important and the great true Corvette enthusiast folks (engineers, etc..) that work on these creations have to make compromise just so the product isn't cancelled.

GM sold the SS branding across various cars lines that didn't deserve it for a quick buck. I guess, I'm just hoping they do the Z06 right. For all we known, the blown LT4 is for an upcoming ZR1 and the Z06 would stay true. Guess we'll see soon enough.
Old 12-11-2013, 11:17 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by JoesC5
Base C7 weighs 3298 and the C6 ZR1 weighs 3333 for a difference of 35 pounds lighter, not 110 pounds heavier as you state. GM hasn't released the curb weight of the C7 Z51 but I'm guessing it's around 3350-3370, or approximately 30 pounds heavier than the C6 ZR1, not 110 pounds heavier.
Okay now I'm confused because I've seen several road test (IIRC at least MT and C&D) were the curb weight of the C7 is stated as 3,444 and more, this is what my calculations were based on. I have tbe original C&D road test of the '06 C6Z and they quote the curb weight at 3140 (with the 2LZ option) and the ZR1 test at 3,333...so those numbers are consistent with yours. So where did the 3,298 number come from?

Cheers, Paul.
Old 12-11-2013, 11:38 AM
  #60  
Bad_AX
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Originally Posted by MTIRC6Z
Okay now I'm confused because I've seen several road test (IIRC at least MT and C&D) were the curb weight of the C7 is stated as 3,444 and more, this is what my calculations were based on. I have tbe original C&D road test of the '06 C6Z and they quote the curb weight at 3140 (with the 2LZ option) and the ZR1 test at 3,333...so those numbers are consistent with yours. So where did the 3,298 number come from?

Cheers, Paul.
See sticky on C6 Z06 forum: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...ight-list.html

This shows the steady weight gain of the C6 Z06 during its production life cycle. It ended up reaching the same weight as the base C6 in 2009. The Z07 option definitely added some weight, and I'm not clear on where all the gain came from. Mag shocks and additional cats are a couple of items. I would have thought the Carbon options would have helped control some of the weight gain.

The official curb weight on the base C7 is 3444lbs



2006 Corvette Base Coupe 3179 lbs------------>2006 Z06 3130 -49lbs

2006 Z06 OEM.......... 3130 lbs -
2007 Z06 OEM.......... 3161 lbs +31lbs
2008 Z06 OEM.......... 3162 lbs +32lbs
2009 Z06 OEM.......... 3180 lbs +50lbs
2010 Z06 OEM.......... 3180 lbs +50lbs
2010 ZR1 OEM.......... 3350 lbs +220lbs
2011 Z06 OEM.......... 3175 lbs +45lbs
2011 Z06 OEM w/Z07. 3264 lbs +134 lbs
2011 ZR1 OEM.......... 3350 lbs +220lbs


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