Why not more carbon fiber for weight loss.
01-25-2014, 06:55 PM
#101
Team Owner
Answer: We are not in the carbon fiber business for profit. I mean that. Except for the GT2 hood, our other carbon fiber products have been too exclusive and expensive for most Corvette owners, and most of our carbon fiber products have extremely high investment molds costs that are never recovered. We realized this fact many years ago, but still love the idea of an all carbon fiber Corvette, don't you?
If GM would do the entire car in carbon fiber, it would be fine with us, we could concentrate on other cars, and stick with intake systems. Halltech is a very small niche company that concentrates on cars that I personally like and modify. If the market follows me, then we are successful. If not, we croak. After 15 years, we are still going strong, with over 20,000 sales since our beginning.
For instance, our C7 StingerCKN was destined from the beginning to be overpriced for the market it would serve. We were pretty excited when the airbox was finished and total retail pricing came in under $1000. Then we found out that we could not control IATs without a fully enclosed airbox. We redid the molds, but all the prior molds were scraped, at a great loss financially to us, but I was determined to make it right, not just pretty. The lid alone requires a four piece mold, not counting the intake bridge/velocity stack. What we have now is the ultimate intake, but ultimately too expensive. That will not change.
We had a open PO from Katech for their ultimate 427 C7 build and dyno testing, that will be sporting our intake, costs were put aside. We have had 20 dealers inquire about our intake, and have over 125 that purchase our intakes as our natural market. But with no profit margin for them, they quietly hang up the phone, and move on to Superchargers, headers, etc. Which is totally understandable. The first 4 CKN intakes were sold well under our cost in the end, due to our mistakes.
Recovering the mold cost for any carbon fiber part requires too many sales that never come. It would be nice if we had the Plasan patented pressure press technology which yields a part in sub 20 minutes.
We could do our intake in 10 minutes!
By the way, you can see that I started this thread for a very good reason. Notice the Plasan jpg. and as I said before, they already have the fender molds.
If GM would do the entire car in carbon fiber, it would be fine with us, we could concentrate on other cars, and stick with intake systems. Halltech is a very small niche company that concentrates on cars that I personally like and modify. If the market follows me, then we are successful. If not, we croak. After 15 years, we are still going strong, with over 20,000 sales since our beginning.
For instance, our C7 StingerCKN was destined from the beginning to be overpriced for the market it would serve. We were pretty excited when the airbox was finished and total retail pricing came in under $1000. Then we found out that we could not control IATs without a fully enclosed airbox. We redid the molds, but all the prior molds were scraped, at a great loss financially to us, but I was determined to make it right, not just pretty. The lid alone requires a four piece mold, not counting the intake bridge/velocity stack. What we have now is the ultimate intake, but ultimately too expensive. That will not change.
We had a open PO from Katech for their ultimate 427 C7 build and dyno testing, that will be sporting our intake, costs were put aside. We have had 20 dealers inquire about our intake, and have over 125 that purchase our intakes as our natural market. But with no profit margin for them, they quietly hang up the phone, and move on to Superchargers, headers, etc. Which is totally understandable. The first 4 CKN intakes were sold well under our cost in the end, due to our mistakes.
Recovering the mold cost for any carbon fiber part requires too many sales that never come. It would be nice if we had the Plasan patented pressure press technology which yields a part in sub 20 minutes.
We could do our intake in 10 minutes!
By the way, you can see that I started this thread for a very good reason. Notice the Plasan jpg. and as I said before, they already have the fender molds.
01-25-2014, 07:23 PM
#102
Maybe the A8 gig isn't as bad an idea that some of the purists declare?
01-25-2014, 09:14 PM
#103
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St. Jude Donor '09
Joe, do you have the removable carbon fiber roof? Wonder if you could weight yours. It is too dang cold here in WI to fiddle with anything right now.
__________________
"World Class Performance for your Corvette"
Intake Design and Engineering since 1999
Halltech Systems, LLC
262-510-7600
For service email:
orders@halltechsystems.com
www.halltechsystems.com
"World Class Performance for your Corvette"
Intake Design and Engineering since 1999
Halltech Systems, LLC
262-510-7600
For service email:
orders@halltechsystems.com
www.halltechsystems.com
Last edited by Halltech; 01-25-2014 at 09:16 PM.
01-25-2014, 09:58 PM
#104
Drifting
Answer: We are not in the carbon fiber business for profit. I mean that. Except for the GT2 hood, our other carbon fiber products have been too exclusive and expensive for most Corvette owners, and most of our carbon fiber products have extremely high investment molds costs that are never recovered. We realized this fact many years ago, but still love the idea of an all carbon fiber Corvette, don't you?
If GM would do the entire car in carbon fiber, it would be fine with us, we could concentrate on other cars, and stick with intake systems. Halltech is a very small niche company that concentrates on cars that I personally like and modify. If the market follows me, then we are successful. If not, we croak. After 15 years, we are still going strong, with over 20,000 sales since our beginning.
For instance, our C7 StingerCKN was destined from the beginning to be overpriced for the market it would serve. We were pretty excited when the airbox was finished and total retail pricing came in under $1000. Then we found out that we could not control IATs without a fully enclosed airbox. We redid the molds, but all the prior molds were scraped, at a great loss financially to us, but I was determined to make it right, not just pretty. The lid alone requires a four piece mold, not counting the intake bridge/velocity stack. What we have now is the ultimate intake, but ultimately too expensive. That will not change.
We had a open PO from Katech for their ultimate 427 C7 build and dyno testing, that will be sporting our intake, costs were put aside. We have had 20 dealers inquire about our intake, and have over 125 that purchase our intakes as our natural market. But with no profit margin for them, they quietly hang up the phone, and move on to Superchargers, headers, etc. Which is totally understandable. The first 4 CKN intakes were sold well under our cost in the end, due to our mistakes.
Recovering the mold cost for any carbon fiber part requires too many sales that never come. It would be nice if we had the Plasan patented pressure press technology which yields a part in sub 20 minutes.
We could do our intake in 10 minutes!
By the way, you can see that I started this thread for a very good reason. Notice the Plasan jpg. and as I said before, they already have the fender molds.
If GM would do the entire car in carbon fiber, it would be fine with us, we could concentrate on other cars, and stick with intake systems. Halltech is a very small niche company that concentrates on cars that I personally like and modify. If the market follows me, then we are successful. If not, we croak. After 15 years, we are still going strong, with over 20,000 sales since our beginning.
For instance, our C7 StingerCKN was destined from the beginning to be overpriced for the market it would serve. We were pretty excited when the airbox was finished and total retail pricing came in under $1000. Then we found out that we could not control IATs without a fully enclosed airbox. We redid the molds, but all the prior molds were scraped, at a great loss financially to us, but I was determined to make it right, not just pretty. The lid alone requires a four piece mold, not counting the intake bridge/velocity stack. What we have now is the ultimate intake, but ultimately too expensive. That will not change.
We had a open PO from Katech for their ultimate 427 C7 build and dyno testing, that will be sporting our intake, costs were put aside. We have had 20 dealers inquire about our intake, and have over 125 that purchase our intakes as our natural market. But with no profit margin for them, they quietly hang up the phone, and move on to Superchargers, headers, etc. Which is totally understandable. The first 4 CKN intakes were sold well under our cost in the end, due to our mistakes.
Recovering the mold cost for any carbon fiber part requires too many sales that never come. It would be nice if we had the Plasan patented pressure press technology which yields a part in sub 20 minutes.
We could do our intake in 10 minutes!
By the way, you can see that I started this thread for a very good reason. Notice the Plasan jpg. and as I said before, they already have the fender molds.
01-26-2014, 10:05 AM
#105
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St. Jude Donor '09
Revised Picture
I revised the Plasan picture showing our contribution. Katech's Carbon Fiber engine covers shave off approximately -5 more lbs.
01-26-2014, 03:57 PM
#106
Jim, I thought you guys said the fenders were not carbon fiber on the C7? Why is the Plasan picture telling the opposite? im confused, what parts on the C7 ARENT made of carbon fiber?
Last edited by zeshawn; 01-26-2014 at 04:06 PM.
01-27-2014, 09:59 AM
#107
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St. Jude Donor '09
The differences are between SMC and carbon fiber. It takes them sub 20 minutes to make one hood, so they have the process dialed in.
Jim
Last edited by Halltech; 01-27-2014 at 10:10 AM.
01-27-2014, 10:17 AM
#108
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St. Jude Donor '09
Notice that this is a picture of the Stingray, not the Z06. Maybe for the few extra bucks GM decided to pop the surprise early, or I helped them make the decision.
Katech's deck is molded ready and they are taking pre-orders. That would leave the rear quarter panels, which are small pieces, the doors and front and rear fascia, which have crash testing done and passed. For that reason, they may remain the material they were made it.
I just know that for an option like Carbon X, some folks would finance $10,000-$12,000 more to have what very few Super Cars have. All carbon fiber bodywork.
Even without carbon fiber, this car is going to bring down many records.
I say easy 9 second quarter mile passes are in its future factory stock, with maybe minor bolt ons. Intake, headers, pulley.
Katech's deck is molded ready and they are taking pre-orders. That would leave the rear quarter panels, which are small pieces, the doors and front and rear fascia, which have crash testing done and passed. For that reason, they may remain the material they were made it.
I just know that for an option like Carbon X, some folks would finance $10,000-$12,000 more to have what very few Super Cars have. All carbon fiber bodywork.
Even without carbon fiber, this car is going to bring down many records.
I say easy 9 second quarter mile passes are in its future factory stock, with maybe minor bolt ons. Intake, headers, pulley.
01-27-2014, 04:59 PM
#109
Notice that this is a picture of the Stingray, not the Z06. Maybe for the few extra bucks GM decided to pop the surprise early, or I helped them make the decision.
Katech's deck is molded ready and they are taking pre-orders. That would leave the rear quarter panels, which are small pieces, the doors and front and rear fascia, which have crash testing done and passed. For that reason, they may remain the material they were made it.
I just know that for an option like Carbon X, some folks would finance $10,000-$12,000 more to have what very few Super Cars have. All carbon fiber bodywork.
Even without carbon fiber, this car is going to bring down many records.
I say easy 9 second quarter mile passes are in its future factory stock, with maybe minor bolt ons. Intake, headers, pulley.
Katech's deck is molded ready and they are taking pre-orders. That would leave the rear quarter panels, which are small pieces, the doors and front and rear fascia, which have crash testing done and passed. For that reason, they may remain the material they were made it.
I just know that for an option like Carbon X, some folks would finance $10,000-$12,000 more to have what very few Super Cars have. All carbon fiber bodywork.
Even without carbon fiber, this car is going to bring down many records.
I say easy 9 second quarter mile passes are in its future factory stock, with maybe minor bolt ons. Intake, headers, pulley.
01-28-2014, 08:59 AM
#110
Racer
Agree that the Z06 should be lighter, but cf body panels high cost doesn't come from the manufacturing process, it comes from the cost of certifying a different body for crash standards.
01-28-2014, 10:32 AM
#111
Cost