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Will the ZO6 do the unbelievable?

 
Old 06-07-2014, 11:44 AM
  #21  
andrec10
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Originally Posted by jma242 View Post
Most of the guys I know that bought from Porsche just wanted to say they own one. They'd probably be scared off by 650 HP ....

The Viper is the car I'm watching. I really like the new ones but their pricing is out of control and they need to get in this century and decide if they want to sell cars or not ... because an automatic would do that for them.
My neighbor just bought one and they are giving big discounts on them! Car is badass!
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Old 06-07-2014, 12:23 PM
  #22  
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I had not great experience with my local gm dealership which pushed me over to try some German stuff out. So far my German experience has been pretty good but probably need like 5 years to really say how it will work out.
Still dealerships will vary and are not the main reason would buy or not buy a certain make.

Fact we have no Porsche dealership in my city and have to take car to independent although local Mercedes said they will work on it for me .

I think Porsche makes some great cars ,especially the flagship 911 turbo. But they are pretty ridiculously priced new. For 100k new you don't get a 911 turbo , as was said pretty much have to double that . I do think Porsche has an edge in terms of things like paint quality. Not seeing any orange peel on my 911 turbo but not sure if previous owner
did stuff to it . Not seeing any on my SL either or my ML350.
My 911 turbo has very good interior quality and is very solid car.
Personally don't really believe much in buy a brand new car. Corvettes, Porsche, etc almost every car depreciates and usually quite a bit more the first couple of years. Some cars will maybe even start going up again down the road.

I paid high 70s Canadian this past winter for my 2007 911 turbo with 12,000 miles and aftermarket warranty transferrable from previous owner. Also paid 50k Canadian year ago for my 2007 SL55 with 30,000 miles on it. No warranty on that one.
I paid 60k for my 2008 z06 which bought in 2011 for 60k Canadian and sold for 50k Canadian in 2013.

I don't see any of these cars worth what they want for them new but the z06 is the better bang for the buck at new price.

Now wait a few years and they will become even better bangs for the bucks.

Also more power in terms of hp/tq don't necessarily mean a way better car. On the street that extra power is mostly bragging rights. I can tell you that 500 or so hp in a reasonably light car like my 911 turbo with all wheel drive is pretty much all anyone would every want or need on the street. And I have if you look at my sig an 800 plus rear wheel drive car in my current stable. Pretty much past 500 is not very useable on the street with rear wheel drive unless you run drag type tires. I also find my SL55 with its 510 stock hp to be pretty good power on the street but admit my son's 350z that I also sometimes drive is kind of weak sauce with its 290 or so stock hp.

A base corvette is actually plenty of power but I normally buy top of the line so would get a z06 over a base corvette even if never likely will use the extra power. Also like the more aggressive styling of the z06 except for the wheel spats.

I think Porsche buyers are likely a different buyer form the Corvette guys especially high end Porsche buyers. But many are fanatically loyal . I am a car guy and like/respect all the various makes and models of sports cars. If won the lotto likely would have a stable of 5 or 10 cars. Some Italian, some German, some Japanese, some domestic, heck maye some English.

I will also add that the 911 non turbo ,Boxsters and Caymans are also very overpriced and underpowered compared to what GM is offering in the c7s.
But that don't take away from the fact that the Porsche are still very nice cars and not everyone as said cares that much about having 450 or more hp .

I think people that have not driven some of these other makes of cars and admit until recently I was in the same position should go out and test drive/rent in Vegas some of these other cars. You might come away with bit different view of them.
But its good to see GM come up to the plate now with greatly improved interiors, seating , electronics and offer things like manual /auto option both. Vert /coupe option.

Where is the Viper vert? They must be smoking crack to not have it out already. Course Viper is going back to Dodge again. Where is the affordable Viper something in the c7 range maybe with a supercharged v8 like the z06 has. Where is the auto Viper option?

And back to Porsche they are great cars but they really should be selling the 911 turbo for about 150k tops for the S and 125 or so for the non s. Non turbo 911 should be more 70 to 90 or so tops . Boxsters and caymans like 50 to 70k tops.

I personally plan to keep a small stable of high end cars ,four or so all bought used probably. The four likely being
a 911 turbo , an SL Mercedes. A c7 base or c7 z06 and a Viper not sure what generation but for styling like the fourth generation the best but like the new tech and upgrades in the fifth gen also.

Last edited by ALLANB; 06-07-2014 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 06-07-2014, 12:56 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by baron95 View Post
The biggest drawback of buying a Corvette vs a Porsche is actually having to set foot in a Chevy dealership, buying it there, take it there for service, etc. Some are OK, but not many.

Have you been to a Porsche dealership? Have you seen the difference not only in the place, but on the people that you deal with, from the person making a service appointment to the sales person to the service manager?

There is no comparison. I will very likely buy a C7, soon, but I'll tell you, I'd have to pinch my nose to set foot in a Chevy dealership. I doubt very much many of my neighbors who own Porsches can stomach it.
I couldn't agree more. I have previously owned a Camaro as well as a BMW 3 series, Lexus, and currently drive an Audi S5. The best service I have experienced by far was my Lexus dealer and the worst was the Chevy dealer.

I am not looking for a dealer service dept to pamper me but I do expect some basic things like:

(1) service loaner vehicle - a must!
(2) convenient service hours including weekends and easy drop off/pickup after hours
(3) quick in & out when dropping vehicle for service or pickup
(4) satisfactory service and resolution of problems when they occur
(5) dedicated service advisor to handle all your paperwork/processing/etc.

Unfortunately my experience with the Chevy dealership did not meet this. Hopefully Chevy has made improvements in this area since my last visit to their service dept.

Having said that the C7 Z06 is absolutely going to steal business from Porsche and other competitors. The Z06 is amazing in every aspect and Chevrolet has shown that they are listening to customers and addressing a lot of their concerns.

Chevrolet has hit a home run with this car assuming the reliability of the vehicle is good.

I am seriously considering purchasing the Z06 whereas only a year ago I had not even considered it. If I were making a purchase today I wouldn't even consider the Porsche 911. The Z06 looks to be far superior. The car that I would shop against the Z06 is the Jaguar F-Type R Coupe which is simply gorgeous and though higher priced than the Z06 it is not outrageously priced like a 911.
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Old 06-07-2014, 01:07 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by ALLANB View Post
Where is the Viper vert? They must be smoking crack to not have it out already. Course Viper is going back to Dodge again. Where is the affordable Viper something in the c7 range maybe with a supercharged v8 like the z06 has. Where is the auto Viper option?
.
SRT (now Dodge) spent too much time listening to the "purists" who insisted a Viper HAS to be a NA V-10, HAS to be a manual only and HAS to resemble the much beloved Gen 2. Beloved by Gen 2 owners anyway, nobody else.
Market failure on all three prerequisites.
Unfortunately these "purists" are driving 30K Gen 2 GTS's and haven't the coin to come close to a new Gen V hence the dismal sales.
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Old 06-07-2014, 01:37 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by PDCjonny View Post
SRT (now Dodge) spent too much time listening to the "purists" who insisted a Viper HAS to be a NA V-10, HAS to be a manual only and HAS to resemble the much beloved Gen 2. Beloved by Gen 2 owners anyway, nobody else.
Market failure on all three prerequisites.
Unfortunately these "purists" are driving 30K Gen 2 GTS's and haven't the coin to come close to a new Gen V hence the dismal sales.
Spot on! All you heard was how these guys would step up and buy if it was like the Gen 2.
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Old 06-07-2014, 02:16 PM
  #26  
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"What one does with 872 rear wheel, I wouldn't know??????? All that would mean to me would be a longer walk out of the woods."

This has to be THE best statement I have ever read on any forum!!

Wisdom from a real track driver.
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Old 06-08-2014, 12:29 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by PDCjonny View Post
SRT (now Dodge) spent too much time listening to the "purists" who insisted a Viper HAS to be a NA V-10, HAS to be a manual only and HAS to resemble the much beloved Gen 2. Beloved by Gen 2 owners anyway, nobody else.
Market failure on all three prerequisites.
Unfortunately these "purists" are driving 30K Gen 2 GTS's and haven't the coin to come close to a new Gen V hence the dismal sales.
I like the body on the new models but once again, the pricing is crazy which is why they need huge discounts.

Consider this, the gen 2 and C5 were available at the same time, yet the base C7 isn't much more than a C5 was. Look at the the difference in price between the Gen 2 and Gen 5 Viper!
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Old 06-08-2014, 03:12 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by PDCjonny View Post
SRT (now Dodge) spent too much time listening to the "purists" who insisted a Viper HAS to be a NA V-10, HAS to be a manual only and HAS to resemble the much beloved Gen 2. Beloved by Gen 2 owners anyway, nobody else.
Market failure on all three prerequisites.
Unfortunately these "purists" are driving 30K Gen 2 GTS's and haven't the coin to come close to a new Gen V hence the dismal sales.
It's low volume, but I can't image the V10 costing Dodge all that much money to build. It's their V8 with another cylinder.

I do think they should have made the styling more modern.

Michael
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Old 06-08-2014, 08:02 AM
  #29  
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I've owned four Vipers (97 GTS, 98 GTS, 09 ACR and '10 ACR) and as soon as I saw the body styling on the Gen V I knew I wouldn't be getting another. IMO, The retro look was a big mistake. They played it safe by going with the rounded curves of the old Gen 2 but it looks far too similar. Frankly, I wouldn't want my new 100K+ car to look like my buddies 30K car.

This is why I give huge props to GM for taking a bold step in the C7 design. I think it blows away the Gen V Viper. It's edgy, modern and looks like it could cut you just looking at it. That's what a new redesigned Viper SHOULD have looked like. An evolution of the Gen 3-4 design which looked far more modern.

When you have a new generation car like the Viper and you have to do a double take as to whether it's an older one it's a fail. The design should smack you in the face like it did 20 years ago. Can't go home again.
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Old 06-08-2014, 10:54 AM
  #30  
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I agree with a lot of the OP's thinking. That said, although some will grow tired of paying TWICE as much for their fun cars, most will not move to the corvette, due to the snob factor. Even if they are true car guys, how could they hold their head up at the "club" with all the pretentious phonies. What will cause a shift to the C7 becoming a status symbol, is if enough people bypass looking at the Porsches every time a striking looking C7/ C7 Z06 pulls up. Let's face it. The C7 looks a lot like an exotic, and Porsches have always had a utilitarian homely look, just like the old VW beetle. To non car guys, the looks of a Porsche are nothing to write home about. What does impress the gold diggers and status types about Porsches, is they are very expensive.
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Old 06-08-2014, 11:32 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by rrm View Post
In another thread the question is asked "how many zo6's do you think will be sold". Good question and the answer could be historic. I firmly believe that the 2015 zo6 will do the unbelievable and take sales away from Porsche and do so in numbers never achieved by past Corvettes. Sales loses that will HURT the German car. I believe that the tipping point has finally been reached where the potential car buyer will chose the vette over the 911 even with the built in bias of the Porsche mystique. No longer can a rational, sane person look at the two cars and make a logical decision to buy the Porsche. In the past I don't think that would have been the case. The "feeling" derived from owning a Porsche and knowing others know that to afford such a great car set the owner apart from the rest and that included Corvette owners. When I went in to buy my first Porsche in 1980 I remember the salesman , when I asked about comparable BMW's, looked at me with a grin and smirked that BMW's were for people that couldn't afford Porsches. At the time, being a young idiot and mental ingrate I thought "you know what, he's right". So I bought the 928 thinking that it helped in setting me apart. At that time and until today at 12:01am I believe that the Porsche name, THE BRAND, made up for all it's short falls. Is it a great car...yes, of course but compared to the new zo6 even THE BRAND can not save it from a reasonable comparison. Just how long can a name overcome reality? Obviously a long time but no more. My point in all this is to say that the sales for the zo6 are not only coming from folks like you and me, people that have long know the value of the vette but now the audience has been greatly widened to include, well, snobs. And more importantly snobs with money. The new Stingray is selling about 2.5k/mth plus. Some of those sales will go to the zo6 assuming the price is as GM has stated ie 75k-79k base. And there are a number of us that have been waiting for the new Z. Add to that a good number that will leave THE BRAND for sanity plus all those that were going to purchase lesser Porsches like the B or C and those looking at the F-R 550hp Jag and yes even those of the Viper bent. In it's first full model year I predict at least 1k zo6s will be sold per month. Much higher than the c6zo6 top year of '07 when 680/mth were sold or 8159 for the year. This could be hurt by dealer mark up, or killed by GM greed (all of this would change if the car is priced other than GM has told us ie base 75-79 and loaded 100k) but many forum dealers are sticking to MSRP.
12,000 units sold will make a huge increase in niche market share and much will come from Porsche. When that perspective buyer compares a 911 comparably equipped to the zo6 they will quickly find out that their BRAND ego can not over come 21st century styling, technology and power. The 911 comes standard with 385hp. That is 265hp less than the Z. If they indignantly step up to the S they must be ashamed to see that they get a whopping 15hp more and have just blown by 110k. in price. Not even the most loyal Porscheaphiles can defend such a decision.
Sales of the zo6 will not be the problem for GM. The problem is how to keep up to demand and how do they top this with a C8Z.
All Porsche owners to the back of the line!...rrm
Go walk into a Porshe dealership, and the a Chevy dealership. Enough said. Like going from Macy's to Walmart, you get the point.....
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Old 06-08-2014, 12:14 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by musclecar6 View Post
I agree with a lot of the OP's thinking. That said, although some will grow tired of paying TWICE as much for their fun cars, most will not move to the corvette, due to the snob factor. Even if they are true car guys, how could they hold their head up at the "club" with all the pretentious phonies. What will cause a shift to the C7 becoming a status symbol, is if enough people bypass looking at the Porsches every time a striking looking C7/ C7 Z06 pulls up. Let's face it. The C7 looks a lot like an exotic, and Porsches have always had a utilitarian homely look, just like the old VW beetle. To non car guys, the looks of a Porsche are nothing to write home about. What does impress the gold diggers and status types about Porsches, is they are very expensive.
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Old 06-08-2014, 01:16 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by blackvetterzo6 View Post
Go walk into a Porshe dealership, and the a Chevy dealership. Enough said. Like going from Macy's to Walmart, you get the point.....
+1

This might be the most overlooked business aspect of GM. GM is making better product but the dealership/ownership experience is what separates premium brands. Even Cadillac's dealership experience is average at best in most cases and this is coming from GM's luxury brand; a brand that wants to be "the Standard of the World."

GM cannot treat the Corvette like a "Chevy" anymore. It is a premium car and needs to be positioned as such, which includes a top notch dealership experience. Some people are willing to put up with a less than premium experience for now because the Corvette as a product offers a lot and is enough to overlook the average experience. However, as prices increase and time goes on, owners will expect more and should expect more. Hopefully, GM and dealership are pushing to improve the experience.
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Old 06-08-2014, 10:08 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by JerriVette View Post
I would suggest when a thief is charging you two, three or four times higher they definitely smile at you while doing so. Just something to consider when comparing the two brands service.

Personally I have found Chevrolet dealers to be fantastic with purchase as well as service.

I do prefer to purchase the corvettes from forum vendors as their deals are the best and the transaction is seamless.

My last purchase was from kerbeck and the transaction was quite pleasurable.
Originally Posted by baron95 View Post
The biggest drawback of buying a Corvette vs a Porsche is actually having to set foot in a Chevy dealership, buying it there, take it there for service, etc. Some are OK, but not many.

Have you been to a Porsche dealership? Have you seen the difference not only in the place, but on the people that you deal with, from the person making a service appointment to the sales person to the service manager?

There is no comparison. I will very likely buy a C7, soon, but I'll tell you, I'd have to pinch my nose to set foot in a Chevy dealership. I doubt very much many of my neighbors who own Porsches can stomach it.
I have to agree that Chevy dealerships and the experience of buying a Chevy leave a lot to be desired. The service is almost disgusting, even to this die-hard Chevy fan.

At one point, there was a great debate on whether or not Chevy should divorce the Corvette from the Chevy line up and allow it to be it's on brand within GM. I'm almost at the point of thinking that's not a bad idea. My Chevy dealership can't fix the smallest of problems on my 2014 Chevy Cruze...I cringe to think what they would do with a C7.
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Old 06-08-2014, 10:25 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by PDCjonny View Post
I've owned four Vipers (97 GTS, 98 GTS, 09 ACR and '10 ACR) and as soon as I saw the body styling on the Gen V I knew I wouldn't be getting another. IMO, The retro look was a big mistake. They played it safe by going with the rounded curves of the old Gen 2 but it looks far too similar. Frankly, I wouldn't want my new 100K+ car to look like my buddies 30K car.

This is why I give huge props to GM for taking a bold step in the C7 design. I think it blows away the Gen V Viper. It's edgy, modern and looks like it could cut you just looking at it. That's what a new redesigned Viper SHOULD have looked like. An evolution of the Gen 3-4 design which looked far more modern.

When you have a new generation car like the Viper and you have to do a double take as to whether it's an older one it's a fail. The design should smack you in the face like it did 20 years ago. Can't go home again.
You said it perfectly. Best post I've read in a while.
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Old 06-09-2014, 12:21 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by baron95 View Post
The biggest drawback of buying a Corvette vs a Porsche is actually having to set foot in a Chevy dealership, buying it there, take it there for service, etc. Some are OK, but not many.

Have you been to a Porsche dealership? Have you seen the difference not only in the place, but on the people that you deal with, from the person making a service appointment to the sales person to the service manager?

There is no comparison. I will very likely buy a C7, soon, but I'll tell you, I'd have to pinch my nose to set foot in a Chevy dealership. I doubt very much many of my neighbors who own Porsches can stomach it.
Very true. GM has a problem trying to sell a high performance car with the typical Chevy dealership. The Porsche dealer treats you much better.
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Old 06-09-2014, 12:13 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by PDCjonny View Post
I've owned four Vipers (97 GTS, 98 GTS, 09 ACR and '10 ACR) and as soon as I saw the body styling on the Gen V I knew I wouldn't be getting another. IMO, The retro look was a big mistake. They played it safe by going with the rounded curves of the old Gen 2 but it looks far too similar. Frankly, I wouldn't want my new 100K+ car to look like my buddies 30K car.

This is why I give huge props to GM for taking a bold step in the C7 design. I think it blows away the Gen V Viper. It's edgy, modern and looks like it could cut you just looking at it. That's what a new redesigned Viper SHOULD have looked like. An evolution of the Gen 3-4 design which looked far more modern.

When you have a new generation car like the Viper and you have to do a double take as to whether it's an older one it's a fail. The design should smack you in the face like it did 20 years ago. Can't go home again.
i personally think the Gen V Viper is drop dead gorgeous. But I also cant swing 120-150k for one either.

But you seem to echo what a lot of people have said about the Viper. Those who can buy it dont really like it.

Im curious to see the future of the Viper
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Old 06-09-2014, 01:39 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by TurboJunky View Post
i personally think the Gen V Viper is drop dead gorgeous. But I also cant swing 120-150k for one either.

But you seem to echo what a lot of people have said about the Viper. Those who can buy it dont really like it.

Im curious to see the future of the Viper
Sadly, I'm not sure there IS a future for the Viper. Fiat has enough problems without propping up a car that has been a DISMAL sales failure in it's current itineration. But....if you really want a GenV Viper, there are DEALS to be had. I think you can buy a new Viper for well under $100,000 now.

Jimmy
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Old 06-09-2014, 01:46 PM
  #39  
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great post. This C7 is and will be a seller for sometime.

However I do agree with everyone here , that going into Chevy Dealership and having to use the Chevy service dept will give anyone nightmares.
Chevy and service just dont go =)
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Old 06-09-2014, 05:02 PM
  #40  
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Chevy/GM really should have a certified Corvette dealer program where a limited number of dealers get to carry all Corvettes and the trade off is there must be dedicated Corvette sales and service on par with the best German makes. Having owned a Porsche myself, the dealer experience must be experienced to be appreciated....
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