Originally Posted by rrm

In another thread the question is asked "how many zo6's do you think will be sold". Good question and the answer could be historic. I firmly believe that the 2015 zo6 will do the unbelievable and take sales away from Porsche and do so in numbers never achieved by past Corvettes. Sales loses that will HURT the German car. I believe that the tipping point has finally been reached where the potential car buyer will chose the vette over the 911 even with the built in bias of the Porsche mystique. No longer can a rational, sane person look at the two cars and make a logical decision to buy the Porsche. In the past I don't think that would have been the case. The "feeling" derived from owning a Porsche and knowing others know that to afford such a great car set the owner apart from the rest and that included Corvette owners. When I went in to buy my first Porsche in 1980 I remember the salesman , when I asked about comparable BMW's, looked at me with a grin and smirked that BMW's were for people that couldn't afford Porsches. At the time, being a young idiot and mental ingrate I thought "you know what, he's right". So I bought the 928 thinking that it helped in setting me apart. At that time and until today at 12:01am I believe that the Porsche name, THE BRAND, made up for all it's short falls. Is it a great car...yes, of course but compared to the new zo6 even THE BRAND can not save it from a reasonable comparison. Just how long can a name overcome reality? Obviously a long time but no more. My point in all this is to say that the sales for the zo6 are not only coming from folks like you and me, people that have long know the value of the vette but now the audience has been greatly widened to include, well, snobs. And more importantly snobs with money. The new Stingray is selling about 2.5k/mth plus. Some of those sales will go to the zo6 assuming the price is as GM has stated ie 75k-79k base. And there are a number of us that have been waiting for the new Z. Add to that a good number that will leave THE BRAND for sanity plus all those that were going to purchase lesser Porsches like the B or C and those looking at the F-R 550hp Jag and yes even those of the Viper bent. In it's first full model year I predict at least 1k zo6s will be sold per month. Much higher than the c6zo6 top year of '07 when 680/mth were sold or 8159 for the year. This could be hurt by dealer mark up, or killed by GM greed (all of this would change if the car is priced other than GM has told us ie base 75-79 and loaded 100k) but many forum dealers are sticking to MSRP.
12,000 units sold will make a huge increase in niche market share and much will come from Porsche. When that perspective buyer compares a 911 comparably equipped to the zo6 they will quickly find out that their BRAND ego can not over come 21st century styling, technology and power. The 911 comes standard with 385hp. That is 265hp less than the Z. If they indignantly step up to the S they must be ashamed to see that they get a whopping 15hp more and have just blown by 110k. in price. Not even the most loyal Porscheaphiles can defend such a decision.
Sales of the zo6 will not be the problem for GM. The problem is how to keep up to demand and how do they top this with a C8Z.
All Porsche owners to the back of the line!...rrm

Originally Posted by PowerLabs

TL, DNR. Really couldn't get through this massive rant-on paragraph with no punctuation.

But as far as your implication that "The Corvette Z06 will take sales away from the Porsche".
Non-Sense. The Nissan GTR was pushing 530HP in 2010, had a nurburgring lap time record for a production car and was delivering sub 3 second 0-60MPH runs for sub 90 thousand dollars while a $140K Porsche 911 Turbo had 480HP and did 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. The GTR was, by every performance metric measurable, a much "better car". And it did nothing to take away sales from Porsche.

For a very simple reason: People buying a Porsche want a Porsche. They don't want a hopped up Nissan or a fast Chevy. Porsche Drivers are not race car drivers, they are dentists, or lawyers, or doctors, or business owners or managers and they do not make a living from their lap times...

I am sure the new Z06 will be much faster than the 2015 Porsche, but so is the new Dodge Viper, or the new GTR, isn't it?

Originally Posted by PowerLabs

TL, DNR. Really couldn't get through this massive rant-on paragraph with no punctuation.

But as far as your implication that "The Corvette Z06 will take sales away from the Porsche".
Non-Sense. The Nissan GTR was pushing 530HP in 2010, had a nurburgring lap time record for a production car and was delivering sub 3 second 0-60MPH runs for sub 90 thousand dollars while a $140K Porsche 911 Turbo had 480HP and did 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. The GTR was, by every performance metric measurable, a much "better car". And it did nothing to take away sales from Porsche.

For a very simple reason: People buying a Porsche want a Porsche. They don't want a hopped up Nissan or a fast Chevy. Porsche Drivers are not race car drivers, they are dentists, or lawyers, or doctors, or business owners or managers and they do not make a living from their lap times...

I am sure the new Z06 will be much faster than the 2015 Porsche, but so is the new Dodge Viper, or the new GTR, isn't it?

Originally Posted by PDCjonny

The GT-R never held any Nurburgring production car record in any form in 2010. Only recently has the Nismo set any time of note, previous GT-R times were an embarrassment.

Originally Posted by 05dsom

Are there a lot of Corvette owners who are race car drivers?
Actually, at most events I go to there are many more Porsches than 'Vettes (and BMW's too).



P.S. I am one of those "non-race-car-drivers" you refer to^^

Originally Posted by PowerLabs

A single data point does not constitute statistics. I raced mine too before I sold it, but so what?

GM made 238,230 thousand C5 Corvettes and just under 200,000 C6s.
How many of those do you see on the track?

How many Porsches have never seen the track vs the ones you've seen being raced? I've personally only seen one 911 getting tracked.

Originally Posted by PowerLabs

How many Porsches have never seen the track vs the ones you've seen being raced? I've personally only seen one 911 getting tracked.

Originally Posted by Snorman

That's very interesting and maybe it's a Michigan thing.
But I can tell you, there are TONS of 911's that are tracked in Florida. Honestly, it's probably the most common platform across all run groups with the organizations with which I run. I've got a bunch of friends that run 911's. Even a few who are leasing new 991 911's (a base Carrera M7 and a C2S PDK Aero car).
It's kind of crazy, and it's had me seriously thinking of picking up a couple year old GT3 and replacing my current track car.
Maybe it's a southeastern thing, I'm not sure. But if I'm running the advanced run group (depending on group), it's almost a sure damn bet that there will be a couple of freaking GT3 Cup cars out there with me.
S.

Originally Posted by powerlabs

for a very simple reason: People buying a porsche want a porsche. They don't want a hopped up nissan or a fast chevy. Porsche drivers are not race car drivers, they are dentists, or lawyers, or doctors, or business owners or managers and they do not make a living from their lap times...

I am sure the new z06 will be much faster than the 2015 porsche, but so is the new dodge viper, or the new gtr, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Snorman

That's very interesting and maybe it's a Michigan thing.
But I can tell you, there are TONS of 911's that are tracked in Florida. Honestly, it's probably the most common platform across all run groups with the organizations with which I run. I've got a bunch of friends that run 911's. Even a few who are leasing new 991 911's (a base Carrera M7 and a C2S PDK Aero car).
It's kind of crazy, and it's had me seriously thinking of picking up a couple year old GT3 and replacing my current track car.
Maybe it's a southeastern thing, I'm not sure. But if I'm running the advanced run group (depending on group), it's almost a sure damn bet that there will be a couple of freaking GT3 Cup cars out there with me.
S.

Originally Posted by PowerLabs

It could be regional. I don't even see a lot of Porsches here in Michigan, period. I think MI is very pro-american cars, you know, since they are all designed here and all

BTW I had a chance to lap a GT3 RS, around the Nurburgring. Great cars, in fact a lot more of a "track" car than a Z06. Nut sure I'd buy one though...

Originally Posted by PowerLabs

Really? Compared to what? 7:26.70 back in 2009 was faster than anything Porsche, GM or any other manufacturer had up until then. What exactly was embarrassing about it?

Originally Posted by Snorman

I would completely believe that. I honestly don't see many Porsches around where our house in Jersey is either and it may very well be regional.
Looking at the roster for an upcoming event with a group I run with is having at VIR: 23 911's (including GT2, GT3's, Turbos) and 15 Corvettes.
For a Sebring 1-day event: 12 911's and 3 Corvettes...no kidding.
S.