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At about 1:00 into the video it definitely looked like they were testing that trans downshift ,brakes or both because that tire chirp entering the corner was really unnecessary and weird..Anyone ever seen something like that before?
If there was a weak suspension part I doubt they would have continued running the blue car around the Ring and they would be delaying production of all Z06s.
Don;t know about delaying production, as it is GM, but you're right on continuing to run the blue car. Who knows. We're also still waiting for a Z51 ring time, which I definitely find odd.
At about 1:00 into the video it definitely looked like they were testing that trans downshift ,brakes or both because that tire chirp entering the corner was really unnecessary and weird..Anyone ever seen something like that before?
I just looked at the video - IMO there is definitely a problem with how the car is running. At :06, the suspension gets upset and the car wanders too far over to the right - definitely the wrong line for that corner given the downhill offcamber turn coming next. And generally, the car does not seem to be in the right gear, or anywhere near as fast as it should be. Then there is the wierd chirp you mention around 1:04, followed by - again - the wrong gear. Looking at this, I see a car that is very unsettled despite the stiff suspension, and a transmission that is not doing what it should be in auto track mode.
I suspect that the power of the car, the weight of the car, and the track surface challenges at the 'Ring make for one hell of a tough time getting suspension settings dialed in - especially on a street suspension that has minimal spring adjustability.
And the auto race logic in the gearbox is no less of a challenge - and will be quite a feat when they nail it.
I just looked at the video - IMO there is definitely a problem with how the car is running. At :06, the suspension gets upset and the car wanders too far over to the right - definitely the wrong line for that corner given the downhill offcamber turn coming next. And generally, the car does not seem to be in the right gear, or anywhere near as fast as it should be. Then there is the wierd chirp you mention around 1:04, followed by - again - the wrong gear. Looking at this, I see a car that is very unsettled despite the stiff suspension, and a transmission that is not doing what it should be in auto track mode.
I noticed this too.
I suspect that the power of the car, the weight of the car, and the track surface challenges at the 'Ring make for one hell of a tough time getting suspension settings dialed in - especially on a street suspension that has minimal spring adjustability.
The Ring is a massive test for a sports car (which is why so many manufacturers go there).
The track surface is old and patched nearly everywhere, with bumps and dips all around the thing.
If you can survive there, you can survive anywhere....
Sounds like the A8 to me and at 1:10 in the video it sounds like he is in the wrong gear if manually shifting the auto....loses a lot of RPM's.
Or maybe he was just getting out of it?
I hope the new 8 speed auto is better than all other autos and will be used for people to drag race. Maybe it's asking a lot but I hope it can handle a thousand horsepower from the factory
Since the door is open for discussion, and based solely on my own humble opinion. observations, and experience, and, of course, without benefit of the tons of data GM has, I will offer an opinion on what I think is a solvable handling issue. Looking at the videos of both the yellow and blue Z06s on track, two things that would bother me are the high roll angle (probably close to 2 degrees) and the heavy splitter contact. The roll angle appears to be much higher than I would like in a "high travel" suspension and could contribute to unloading the outside front tire, especially in a chicane (consecutive turns reversing direction). If you look at the stills of the yellow car and then look at a full course video (like the Z28 run), you will see that the "crash" occurred in a 70 mph (or so) right turn coming off a decelerating left turn. IF (and I emphasis the word if since I am entering my theory realm), the roll stiffness was too low and the right front became "unloaded" to any degree, then the car would push (tight) and you would probably hit the outside wall (in a slide) with the front of the car -- exactly what happened. If the issue was too much throttle (torque), the rear would probably come around to the left (throttle loose) and you would probably back into the wall. If I were trying to fix my own car, the first thing I would do would be to increase roll stiffness -- i.e., bigger sway bars. I might also want to look at overall spring rate, especially if the aero is really effective and is driving the car to the ground and causing heavy splitter impact (on a race car, I might fix that with bump stops, but not practical on a street car). Anyway, please take my guess for what it is -- a humble opinion and not a declaration of fact.
Since the door is open for discussion, and based solely on my own humble opinion. observations, and experience, and, of course, without benefit of the tons of data GM has, I will offer an opinion on what I think is a solvable handling issue. Looking at the videos of both the yellow and blue Z06s on track, two things that would bother me are the high roll angle (probably close to 2 degrees) and the heavy splitter contact. The roll angle appears to be much higher than I would like in a "high travel" suspension and could contribute to unloading the outside front tire, especially in a chicane (consecutive turns reversing direction). If you look at the stills of the yellow car and then look at a full course video (like the Z28 run), you will see that the "crash" occurred in a 70 mph (or so) right turn coming off a decelerating left turn. IF (and I emphasis the word if since I am entering my theory realm), the roll stiffness was too low and the right front became "unloaded" to any degree, then the car would push (tight) and you would probably hit the outside wall (in a slide) with the front of the car -- exactly what happened. If the issue was too much throttle (torque), the rear would probably come around to the left (throttle loose) and you would probably back into the wall. If I were trying to fix my own car, the first thing I would do would be to increase roll stiffness -- i.e., bigger sway bars. I might also want to look at overall spring rate, especially if the aero is really effective and is driving the car to the ground and causing heavy splitter impact (on a race car, I might fix that with bump stops, but not practical on a street car). Anyway, please take my guess for what it is -- a humble opinion and not a declaration of fact.
Pappy
Thanks for your analysis but it was starting to rain at that corner when he crashed. Probably had absolutely nothing to do with their suspension settings. I'm sure they had it set up to a optimum configuration. They know what the settings should be for that place. I posted a link of Dale Lomas's Facebook page on page 6 of this thread, post #108 where Lomas said it was starting to rain at the Hatzenbach location when he came through.
Thanks for your analysis but it was starting to rain at that corner when he crashed. Probably had absolutely nothing to do with their suspension settings. I'm sure they had it set up to a optimum configuration. They know what the settings should be for that place. I posted a link of Dale Lomas's Facebook page on page 6 of this thread, post #108 where Lomas said it was starting to rain at the Hatzenbach location when he came through.
Hey Skank. Rain would definitely affect things with Pilot Sports (I run them on my C6Z/Z07 and they don't like wet). Watch the last half of the Z28 run on Corsas in the rain -- plenty scary at 150+ mph, but he held onto it. BTW, sway bar rates are not a "setting" - the bars have to be replaced to change the rate and I would assume the cars at the Ring would have the current production bars. My point was that I think the cars are exhibiting too high a roll angle for the apparent high travel suspension and the cars are bottoming too hard on the outside corner of the splitter, partially because of the excessive roll. Whether or not that had anything to do with the crash would be speculation without the real data. I'll bet the Ring car has travel sensors and a fairly robust data logger. In any case, GM will sort it out.
You're half right. If you've never driven the Nurburgring, you can't come to conclusions on a complete suspension setup based on 1 turn from some video. The turn in the video is the little Karussell.
The line exiting through little Karusell will determine the the composure of the car as it exits. A foot or 2 makes a huge difference. The simple answer here is in the blue car Mero exited too soon thus upsetting the car.
Look at this video at :38 and compare it to :06 of the video above.
From the Bridge to Gantry website on the 28th of Oct:
Nürburgring Bridge To Gantry
October 28
I just got passed by a Michigan-plated 2015 Corvette Z07 prototype on my way to the office. I wonder what they're still doing here? Lap record attempt before winter? Or just enjoying the Eifel roads?
From the Bridge to Gantry website on the 28th of Oct:
Nürburgring Bridge To Gantry
October 28
I just got passed by a Michigan-plated 2015 Corvette Z07 prototype on my way to the office. I wonder what they're still doing here? Lap record attempt before winter? Or just enjoying the Eifel roads?
This sounds to me what I had been thinking all along, The yellow Z07 is not the only one there.
The line exiting through little Karusell will determine the the composure of the car as it exits. A foot or 2 makes a huge difference. The simple answer here is in the blue car Mero exited too soon thus upsetting the car.
Thank you for the analysis and pics.
That is one vicious bit of pavement and would unsettle ANY car if it isn't done right.
Originally Posted by skank
Lap record attempt before winter? Or just enjoying the Eifel roads?
I'm just guessing here....but I would say the former.
The left rear is unloaded too much. I still think the front sway bar is too small (not enough roll resistance) and the rear bar may or may not be too large. Again, only my opinion, which the photos reinforce. Some of you will know what I am talking about.
I've got news for you guys.. the carousel at the 'ring is all about entry. If you do not enter correctly, the exit is fouled.
LOL on the armchair race car chassis analysis. The driver of the blue car did not exit properly. Suspension data analysis or not, there are better turns there to achieve those conclusions.
10-28-2014, 04:56 PM
I'll tell yeah, it does my heart good to hear that American car roaring in that foreign land!
