Z07 Downforce #'s?
10-16-2014, 10:57 AM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Z07 Downforce #'s?
Anyone have an educated guess on what the Z07 package will provide as far as downforce numbers? For example last gen viper acr produced 1000 pounds of downforce at 150 mph. While I don't expect the Z07 package to produce numbers that high im curious as to how aggressive Gm went.
10-16-2014, 11:42 AM
#2
Safety Car
All we know is that some time ago Tadge Juechtner said the Z07 aero produced "the most downforce of any production car GM has ever tested." We presume that to mean that GM has tested a variety of non-GM cars with lower numbers. But specific numbers, no word yet.
10-16-2014, 09:53 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
Anyone have an educated guess on what the Z07 package will provide as far as downforce numbers? For example last gen viper acr produced 1000 pounds of downforce at 150 mph. While I don't expect the Z07 package to produce numbers that high im curious as to how aggressive Gm went.
I searched for the video and couldn't find it again. I believe it's buried in one of the threads where members are debating the merits and performance of the C6Z06/C6ZR1/C7Z06/C7Z06 w/Z07 package.
10-16-2014, 10:32 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
I recently viewed a video on another thread where the reporter asked Tadge Juechter about how much downforce. Tadge stated that no one can directly measure downforce. He said it is an exercise of trading off the coefficient of drag (I believe 0.35-0.37 for Z06 w/ Z07 package) with speed and other performance measures.
I searched for the video and couldn't find it again. I believe it's buried in one of the threads where members are debating the merits and performance of the C6Z06/C6ZR1/C7Z06/C7Z06 w/Z07 package.
I searched for the video and couldn't find it again. I believe it's buried in one of the threads where members are debating the merits and performance of the C6Z06/C6ZR1/C7Z06/C7Z06 w/Z07 package.
10-16-2014, 11:51 PM
#8
[QUOTE=arturox2;1588059396]... Tadge stated that no one can directly measure downforce.... QUOTE]
Someone educate me.
Why can't the car be stuffed in a wind tunnel and the down force measured directly? Add or remove an aero bit and the change in down force is attributed to that bit on that given configuration. What am I missing here?
Someone educate me.
Why can't the car be stuffed in a wind tunnel and the down force measured directly? Add or remove an aero bit and the change in down force is attributed to that bit on that given configuration. What am I missing here?
10-17-2014, 12:15 AM
#9
Racer
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I believe this is the video you're talking about. Tadge has quite a sense of humor (listen to his comments about Jim Mero).
Corvette Chief Engineer Tadge Juechter Answers Our Questions about 2015 Corvette Z06 - YouTube
Corvette Chief Engineer Tadge Juechter Answers Our Questions about 2015 Corvette Z06 - YouTube
It's interesting to note the A8 was benchmarked at a myriad of "shift events" against the DCT's, taking into account paddle pull time as well. Who knows, maybe in performance modes it will prove to be a real winner.
"Vastly superior" downforce compared to ZR-1 is extremely impressive at similar Cd's. Sure hope they get to lap the Ring in anger, because I feel like GM deserves some bragging rights for this amazing vehicle.
10-17-2014, 12:23 AM
#10
Scraping the splitter.
10-17-2014, 08:20 AM
#11
Le Mans Master
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[QUOTE=LT1xL82;1588060197]
Sure, Downforce can be measured. I don't know why this was stated.
... Tadge stated that no one can directly measure downforce.... QUOTE]
Someone educate me.
Why can't the car be stuffed in a wind tunnel and the down force measured directly? Add or remove an aero bit and the change in down force is attributed to that bit on that given configuration. What am I missing here?
Someone educate me.
Why can't the car be stuffed in a wind tunnel and the down force measured directly? Add or remove an aero bit and the change in down force is attributed to that bit on that given configuration. What am I missing here?
10-17-2014, 09:04 AM
#12
Burning Brakes
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GM made public the downforce in the Camaro Z28, Z06 should be higher than that.
10-17-2014, 09:12 AM
#13
10-17-2014, 12:23 PM
#14
Someone educate me.
Why can't the car be stuffed in a wind tunnel and the down force measured directly? Add or remove an aero bit and the change in down force is attributed to that bit on that given configuration. What am I missing here?
Why can't the car be stuffed in a wind tunnel and the down force measured directly? Add or remove an aero bit and the change in down force is attributed to that bit on that given configuration. What am I missing here?
In the wind tunnel it can definitely be tested, his comment was in context of track testing hot laps, since they were talking about adjusting the down force accessories to get it to Jim's satisfaction. In a wind tunnel all forces being applied to the body are known and controlled, allowing forces due to aerodynamic effects to be singled out and quantified; On the track there are a ton of additional variables preventing a flat out measurement of force being applied only by aerodynamic effects.
Last edited by CPhelps; 10-17-2014 at 12:27 PM.
10-17-2014, 12:35 PM
#15
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
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You can feel it. Run a C6 Z or ZR over 170 mph, which I've done dozens of times in standing mile events, you'll feel them get lighter. Z more so than the ZR as the front splitter on ZR helps it (it feels more stable in the 180s mph than the Z feels in the 170s).
If the effect of the aero on the new Z can be felt below 150 - which I'm hoping it can, and can be felt well below that, it will be a nice benefit to the car on road courses (and outside of top speed or standing mile runs where it may slow it a bit up top).
10-17-2014, 12:38 PM
#16
Scraping the splitter.
http://www.genmay.com/showthread.php?t=827884
The ZR1 generates "lift", not a downward force or thrust augmenting mechanical grip to enhance cornering
S.
10-17-2014, 12:44 PM
#17
In the context of the video where he says they can't directly measure it, they are talking about Jim Mero being out on the track. I think his comment, in this context, means that during track testing, they cannot actively measure downforce, but they can infer it based on data on what the suspension and car is doing.
In the wind tunnel it can definitely be tested, his comment was in context of track testing hot laps, since they were talking about adjusting the down force accessories to get it to Jim's satisfaction. In a wind tunnel all forces being applied to the body are known and controlled, allowing forces due to aerodynamic effects to be singled out and quantified; On the track there are a ton of additional variables preventing a flat out measurement of force being applied only by aerodynamic effects.
In the wind tunnel it can definitely be tested, his comment was in context of track testing hot laps, since they were talking about adjusting the down force accessories to get it to Jim's satisfaction. In a wind tunnel all forces being applied to the body are known and controlled, allowing forces due to aerodynamic effects to be singled out and quantified; On the track there are a ton of additional variables preventing a flat out measurement of force being applied only by aerodynamic effects.
10-17-2014, 01:49 PM
#18
Safety Car
I agree. And lift is lift, gravity notwithstanding (for the other chap, not you sman).
You can feel it. Run a C6 Z or ZR over 170 mph, which I've done dozens of times in standing mile events, you'll feel them get lighter. Z more so than the ZR as the front splitter on ZR helps it (it feels more stable in the 180s mph than the Z feels in the 170s).
If the effect of the aero on the new Z can be felt below 150 - which I'm hoping it can, and can be felt well below that, it will be a nice benefit to the car on road courses (and outside of top speed or standing mile runs where it may slow it a bit up top).
You can feel it. Run a C6 Z or ZR over 170 mph, which I've done dozens of times in standing mile events, you'll feel them get lighter. Z more so than the ZR as the front splitter on ZR helps it (it feels more stable in the 180s mph than the Z feels in the 170s).
If the effect of the aero on the new Z can be felt below 150 - which I'm hoping it can, and can be felt well below that, it will be a nice benefit to the car on road courses (and outside of top speed or standing mile runs where it may slow it a bit up top).
In Crabby's "ZR1 is still faster thread".. I pointed out that at just 124mph.. the C6ZR1 is creating 120lbs of lift combined front & rear. You can imagine how much lift a C6ZR1 is creating at 180mph. At those speeds one can only hope you have the car pointed in a straight direction and that road infront of you is completely clear of all danger.
10-17-2014, 03:38 PM
#19
Melting Slicks
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I've gotten my base model C6 up to 160mph (indicated) and it was nothing that I would call confident lol. Now I'm saying the car was trying to take off.. but stability was definitely a concern. Needless to say I backed off sooner than later. And this is coming from guy who races literbikes on tracks and has pushed my R1 to the rev limiter in 6th gear (186mph indicated) several times.
In Crabby's "ZR1 is still faster thread".. I pointed out that at just 124mph.. the C6ZR1 is creating 120lbs of lift combined front & rear. You can imagine how much lift a C6ZR1 is creating at 180mph. At those speeds one can only hope you have the car pointed in a straight direction and that road infront of you is completely clear of all danger.
In Crabby's "ZR1 is still faster thread".. I pointed out that at just 124mph.. the C6ZR1 is creating 120lbs of lift combined front & rear. You can imagine how much lift a C6ZR1 is creating at 180mph. At those speeds one can only hope you have the car pointed in a straight direction and that road infront of you is completely clear of all danger.
in a left turn 
As soon as he left my slip stream he fell behind over the next few miles... gotta love Autobahn and the discipline drivers have... Wouldn't dream on doing this in the US
Cant wait and see what real downforce will do.... but based on orders coming in on the Z06, it might be a 2016 car for me
10-18-2014, 12:31 AM
#20
Advanced
downforce
I agree. And lift is lift, gravity notwithstanding (for the other chap, not you sman).
You can feel it. Run a C6 Z or ZR over 170 mph, which I've done dozens of times in standing mile events, you'll feel them get lighter. Z more so than the ZR as the front splitter on ZR helps it (it feels more stable in the 180s mph than the Z feels in the 170s).
If the effect of the aero on the new Z can be felt below 150 - which I'm hoping it can, and can be felt well below that, it will be a nice benefit to the car on road courses (and outside of top speed or standing mile runs where it may slow it a bit up top).
You can feel it. Run a C6 Z or ZR over 170 mph, which I've done dozens of times in standing mile events, you'll feel them get lighter. Z more so than the ZR as the front splitter on ZR helps it (it feels more stable in the 180s mph than the Z feels in the 170s).
If the effect of the aero on the new Z can be felt below 150 - which I'm hoping it can, and can be felt well below that, it will be a nice benefit to the car on road courses (and outside of top speed or standing mile runs where it may slow it a bit up top).
I expect that the Z will drive much better than that. I also saw Justin Bell test driving a ZR1 on the Autobahn at 200 mph and they talked about how great the car drove. If the new Z is better, it is going to be fabulous. I enjoy the forum and reading everyone's comments.
Bill